Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Bodonius]

Part of the problem really is perception. If they can get enough to make people confident there will not be shortages, then they can relax. So they do need to get some TP out there to get people to think stuff is not the end. But yeah, just pointing out that there are issues with shipping large bundles of paper goods.

Agree!
If the tp is out you know everything else will go to shit ;-)

[Adamas102]

Your argument against owning a gun is also the argument against condoms, and social distancing.

Uhhh, what? You think the chances of getting pregnant without birth control are anywhere close to the chance of being the victim of a home invasion? I'm pretty certain the chances of a pregnancy while using a condom are higher still. And how is that an argument against social distancing?

[Dystemper]

Last week everything was gone but this week I find shelves are restocked try your nearest Costco they even have resumed 2 day deliveries in a lot of areas. Some items are not going to be in stock for a while like disinfectants because hospitals are in dire need of them, my brother manages supplies for hospitals they are getting whatever they can find at any price.

LOL not in Virginia. Meat , dairy and Produce are all in short supply . Every store is out and no one is rrestocked, nor will they be completely restocked for up to a few months while the supply chain is allowed to adapt. This is how it is in many parts of the country. Either your area is very very lucky or not telling the truth.

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Right, here is no paper goods, no lower-cost meat (steaks, but no ground beef or chicken), canned goods/ pasta are hit or miss. Produce has bounced back this week, so hopefully the fresh meats will bump up also.

For ammo, I usually buy 9mm/ 45 in cases of 1000 since I like the Speer Lawman and it's not common around here for a good price. I did shoot up the 55gr 5.56 I had, but still have a case of 62gr and 77gr that'd be actual-use ammo if needed. Also plenty of 300blk since Hornady had a sale on 125gr stuff, not subs though, meh. Cases of 30-06 on clips, and a case of Aussie 7.62 Nato.

I was thinking of trying to swap my M1a Socom for a DSArms FAL that's a repro of the Israeli light barrel, but not sure it's worth it to swap at this time. It certainly seems my SIG M18 is not going to be available any time soon though!

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One of the issues is also that the bulkiness of paper goods makes it hard to justify filling a truck with the stuff vs lots of food products for the same location.

Whats going to be a huge strain for grocery stores across the nation ( I work in Grocery now) is the first of the month. IN VA all the EBT cards refill at once in April instead of staggered. Thats going to cause a massive run on goods. Every Grocery store in the state right now is limiting Fresh meat and Dairy purchases , General 2 per person. Costco, Sams etc etc shelves are pretty empty . From Richmond up to Northern VA the story is the same , empty shelves. And now that the Gov is shutting down school for the rest of the year. Parents are going to have to increase food buying to keep the kids fed. I dont know what Draco is talking about because the Industry news we are being told is Meat and produce shortages to persist nation wide for quite a while

[Zan15]

LOL not in Virginia. Meat , dairy and Produce are all in short supply . Every store is out and no one is rrestocked, nor will they be completely restocked for up to a few months while the supply chain is allowed to adapt. This is how it is in many parts of the country. Either your area is very very lucky or not telling the truth.

Mid size new England town here...been to the stick towns too...

meat and poultry is almost non existent. Our regional chain was not planning to open until 8am, but they opened at 5:30 because they had nothing left to stock. just by sheer luck I was driving by and saw them letting people in.


there was about 40 packages of chicken and about 50 lbs of meat. that will be gone before 8am. About 10% of the total space was taken up

There was about 100 packages of pasta, about 5% of the normal inventory space was taken up

No TP, No cleaning supplies, 10 or so jugs of detergent....Manager was talking to 3 staff members and said they are not getting TP this week but don't tell customers that. He must be from NY because he talks way to loud...lol

Next big test, Food stamp day. You got a week and a couple before money goes out and the next buying wave hits if things are not getting better by then.

[Ghostpanther]

Uhhh, what? You think the chances of getting pregnant without birth control are anywhere close to the chance of being the victim of a home invasion? I'm pretty certain the chances of a pregnancy while using a condom are higher still. And how is that an argument against social distancing?

First off, it is important to have data to support your belief. This is one I would trust, not some random poster on a gaming forum.....https://brandongaille.com/24-surpris...ry-statistics/

Some parts from that link...

38% of the assaults that are reported to law enforcement officials happen during the events of a home invasion.
The percentage of rapes that occur because of a home invasion incident: 60%.
Over 2 million homes will experience a break-in or burglary at some point in time in the United States.
It is possible to buy a set of bump keys for less than $20 online and these will unlock 9 out of 10 doors in the United States without difficulty.

The second line data is very disturbing.

And here is another link....https://www.nationsearch.com/blog/ho...u-up-at-night/


According to a United States Department of Justice report:
38% of assaults & 60% of rapes occur during home invasions.
Over 2,000,000 homes will experience a break-in or burglary this year.
There are over 4,500 home burglaries per day in the United States.
The average number of home invasions per year was 1,030,000 between 1994 and 2010.

So you think in the US, over 1 million women are getting pregnant while the man is using a condom every year on average?


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Right, here is no paper goods, no lower-cost meat (steaks, but no ground beef or chicken), canned goods/ pasta are hit or miss. Produce has bounced back this week, so hopefully the fresh meats will bump up also.

For ammo, I usually buy 9mm/ 45 in cases of 1000 since I like the Speer Lawman and it's not common around here for a good price. I did shoot up the 55gr 5.56 I had, but still have a case of 62gr and 77gr that'd be actual-use ammo if needed. Also plenty of 300blk since Hornady had a sale on 125gr stuff, not subs though, meh. Cases of 30-06 on clips, and a case of Aussie 7.62 Nato.

I was thinking of trying to swap my M1a Socom for a DSArms FAL that's a repro of the Israeli light barrel, but not sure it's worth it to swap at this time. It certainly seems my SIG M18 is not going to be available any time soon though!

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One of the issues is also that the bulkiness of paper goods makes it hard to justify filling a truck with the stuff vs lots of food products for the same location.

There are issues here also with getting eggs and milk. It's not just toilet paper that is having a shortage issue.

[Adamas102]

First off, it is important to have data to support your belief. This is one I would trust, not some random poster on a gaming forum.....https://brandongaille.com/24-surpris...ry-statistics/

Some parts from that link...

38% of the assaults that are reported to law enforcement officials happen during the events of a home invasion.
The percentage of rapes that occur because of a home invasion incident: 60%.
Over 2 million homes will experience a break-in or burglary at some point in time in the United States.
It is possible to buy a set of bump keys for less than $20 online and these will unlock 9 out of 10 doors in the United States without difficulty.

The second line data is very disturbing.

Random blogger with no references (other than the copy/pasted graphic at the end of the article) isn't exactly a respectable data source. He does say "according to the FBI", so sure lets give him the benefit of the doubt on this one.

You did conveniently exclude a lot of relevant information. "Over 2 million homes" is a statistic for all break-ins and burglaries, but we don't really care about most of those because if you're not home then armed or unarmed makes no difference. Further down the article he notes that 1/3rd involve the victim being home. Only 7% of household burglaries result in violent victimization and of those only 35% are committed by someone not known to the victim (relevant to the notion that you must wary of roving gangs of criminals). So even if we take the 3.8 million/year number that was referenced after the "2 million homes" statistic, you're left with less than 100,000 violent burglaries committed by strangers. There are 128 million households in the US, so we're talking less than 0.07% being victimized each year. While the data isn't referenced here, I think it would be an educated guess that this statistic isn't equal across the country (ie. some regions would have higher incidences than 0.07%, many would be far lower).

"Pretty certain" was just me being flippant. Condoms, used perfectly, are 98% effective. So the chance of having a pregnancy while using a condom is about 30 TIMES greater than that of being the victim of a violent home invasion perpetrated by a stranger. In fact, the chance of having a pregnancy while using a condom (again, perfect use which is not typically what happens) is only 1% lower than the chance of being the victim of ANY SORT of home invasion (2.97%).

EDIT: your second link only referenced the 2 million statistic, so if we're more comfortable with that number then you can pretty much cut all the burglary math above by half. And if you compare it to real life condom effectiveness then you're 10 times more likely to have a pregnancy after using a condom than to be the victim of a home invasion (most of which occur when you're not home).

[Ghostpanther]

Random blogger with no references (other than the copy/pasted graphic at the end of the article) isn't exactly a respectable data source. He does say "according to the FBI", so sure lets give him the benefit of the doubt on this one.

You did conveniently exclude a lot of relevant information. "Over 2 million homes" is a statistic for all break-ins and burglaries, but we don't really care about most of those because if you're not home then armed or unarmed makes no difference. Further down the article he notes that 1/3rd involve the victim being home. Only 7% of household burglaries result in violent victimization and of those only 35% are committed by someone not known to the victim (relevant to the notion that you must wary of roving gangs of criminals). So even if we take the 3.8 million/year number that was referenced after the "2 million homes" statistic, you're left with less than 100,000 violent burglaries committed by strangers. There are 128 million households in the US, so we're talking less than 0.07% being victimized each year. While the data isn't referenced here, I think it would be an educated guess that this statistic isn't equal across the country (ie. some regions would have higher incidences than 0.07%, many would be far lower).

"Pretty certain" was just me being flippant. Condoms, used perfectly, are 98% effective. So the chance of having a pregnancy while using a condom is about 30 TIMES greater than that of being the victim of a violent home invasion perpetrated by a stranger. In fact, the chance of having a pregnancy while using a condom (again, perfect use which is not typically what happens) is only 1% lower than the chance of being the victim of ANY SORT of home invasion (2.97%).

Got a link to support that claim? I mean, your chances of getting pregnant while using a condom? Sure the odds are high you will not experience a home invasion. Or a physical assault. Same as if you drive a car, your chances of dying while doing it, are pretty damn low. I am still going to use my seat belt however.

Lets say your % are correct. The chances of you having a home invasion are 1/3 higher than getting pregnant using a condom. That is one way to look at it.

[Adamas102]

Got a link to support that claim? I mean, your chances of getting pregnant while using a condom? Sure the odds are high you will not experience a home invasion. Or a physical assault. Same as if you drive a car, your chances of dying while doing it, are pretty damn low. I am still going to use my seat belt however.

Lets say your % are correct. The chances of you having a home invasion are 1/3 higher than getting pregnant using a condom. That is one way to look at it.

https://www.cdc.gov/reproductiveheal...traception.htm

That "1/3 higher" was using the 3.8 million number (which was only referenced in the first link) and the perfect use effectiveness of condoms.
If we take the more widely noted 2 million number (4,500/day is closer to 1.6 million) as well as the actual effectiveness of condoms (13-15% failure rate), then the chances of getting pregnant using a condom is 100 time more likely than having a home invasion (and again, that includes home invasions when you're not even home). In fact, you're 300 times more likely to get pregnant while using a condom vs having a home invasions when someone is actually at home.

So you think in the US, over 1 million women are getting pregnant while the man is using a condom every year on average?

Given the accepted failure rate of condoms, only 7.7 million couples would need to have sex to reach the 1 million pregnancies each year. That's only 4.7% of the US population. You think less than 5% of the US population is having sex with condoms each year?

For someone who was trying to call me out on statistics, it seems you have a very poor understanding of how they work. You didn't look into pregnancy statistics yourself, so it seems all you did was see "2 million burglaries!", thought "whoa, that's a lot!", and just assumed that there was no way the other side of the equation could be greater. I do at least commend you for bringing up the stats. It further cements the fact that home invasions (especially violent ones) are extremely rare, and of course the best way to avoid them altogether is to GET A DOG.

[Spectral]

Yes, I am not, and yes, I will. Because you are not special or different and this is 21st century, information is freely available and I can make observations.
Buying more guns now is the same as panic buying the toilet paper - ridiculous. My 5 cents/IMHO, of course...

I think there's some nuance - if someone's buying TP because they think there's a societal collapse, but at least they can still wipe their ass, that seems obviously dumb to me. Likewise, if someone thinks there's a literal societal collapse is coming and thinks picking up a couple more rifles is going to make a big difference, I'd suggest that there's not really thinking clearly.

But... Put yourself in my shoes for a moment. I already own a few firearms - a target/hunting .22LR pistol, a .243 hunting rifle, a super basic Ruger 10/22 rifle. These aren't good weapons if you're ever in a combat situation. The 10/22 would be more useful as a club in most circumstances. The pistol is fine as far as it goes, but it's heavy (7 inch bull barrel, great for targets) and has very little stopping power. The hunting rifle obviously hits very hard, a reasonably placed shot drops a deer after a couple steps, but this is not a defensive weapon, it would only be useful as an aggressor (which I have no desire to be).

Look at that bunch, be someone that already likes guns, owns a few, and is interested in owning more because I'm going to the range anyway and shooting is fun. The current events haven't triggered me to panic buy, but they've reminded me that things actually could get pretty bad pretty fast and it's a dopey move to just buy toys for the range or for hunting when it's just as easy to pick up a Sig M17 and set it up for home defense.

Yeah?

[Stormdash]

Uhhh, what? You think the chances of getting pregnant without birth control are anywhere close to the chance of being the victim of a home invasion? I'm pretty certain the chances of a pregnancy while using a condom are higher still. And how is that an argument against social distancing?

Saying that "bad things probably won't happen" isn't a rational argument against preparedness. It is a universally applicable principle.

[Adamas102]

Saying that "bad things probably won't happen" isn't a rational argument against preparedness. It is a universally applicable principle.

Well it’s a good thing I didn’t say “bad things probably won’t happen”. See my posts above for a lesson on statistical likelihood.

[the game]

Well it’s a good thing I didn’t say “bad things probably won’t happen”. See my posts above for a lesson on statistical likelihood.

So when someone breaks into your home and endangers you or your family then show them those statistics.

[Adamas102]

So when someone breaks into your home and endangers you or your family then show them those statistics.

I’m about as worried about that happening as I am about getting struck by lightning in my lifetime (which coincidentally is more likely to happen). Sorry to burst your weird fantasy, though. Unlike you, I don’t go through life fearing the odds of being a victim of unlikely events.

[Mayhem]

I’m about as worried about that happening as I am about getting struck by lightning in my lifetime (which coincidentally is more likely to happen). Sorry to burst your weird fantasy, though. Unlike you, I don’t go through life fearing the odds of being a victim of unlikely events.

You see the likelihood of a home-invasion happening is reduced because everyone is armed.

Does anyone remember the simpsons episode with the anti-tiger rock?

[Easo]

You see the likelihood of a home-invasion happening is reduced because everyone is armed.

Does anyone remember the simpsons episode with the anti-tiger rock?

See, I am an European, so... your argument does not hold true. Home invasions are rare there (I am quite sure a speeding driver killing me on a pedestrian crossing is more likely event) and trust me on something - if death penalty does not stop people from doing crime, then your gun is even less likely to.

[Mayhem]

See, I am an European, so... your argument does not hold true. Home invasions are rare there (I am quite sure a speeding driver killing me on a pedestrian crossing is more likely event) and trust me on something - if death penalty does not stop people from doing crime, then your gun is even less likely to.

My argument does not hold true because it was sarcasm, I thought enough people saw the anti-tiger rock episode, apparently, you didn't.

[Stormdash]

Well it’s a good thing I didn’t say “bad things probably won’t happen”. See my posts above for a lesson on statistical likelihood.

Quantifying that bad things rarely happen is isn't a rational argument against preparedness. It is a universally applicable principle.

[Ghostpanther]

https://www.cdc.gov/reproductiveheal...traception.htm

That "1/3 higher" was using the 3.8 million number (which was only referenced in the first link) and the perfect use effectiveness of condoms.
If we take the more widely noted 2 million number (4,500/day is closer to 1.6 million) as well as the actual effectiveness of condoms (13-15% failure rate), then the chances of getting pregnant using a condom is 100 time more likely than having a home invasion (and again, that includes home invasions when you're not even home). In fact, you're 300 times more likely to get pregnant while using a condom vs having a home invasions when someone is actually at home.



Given the accepted failure rate of condoms, only 7.7 million couples would need to have sex to reach the 1 million pregnancies each year. That's only 4.7% of the US population. You think less than 5% of the US population is having sex with condoms each year?

For someone who was trying to call me out on statistics, it seems you have a very poor understanding of how they work. You didn't look into pregnancy statistics yourself, so it seems all you did was see "2 million burglaries!", thought "whoa, that's a lot!", and just assumed that there was no way the other side of the equation could be greater. I do at least commend you for bringing up the stats. It further cements the fact that home invasions (especially violent ones) are extremely rare, and of course the best way to avoid them altogether is to GET A DOG.

The chances of something happening is not the same as actually happening. And if you are a victim of something which is very unlikely to happen, you think you really care it rarely happens? Considering how many automobiles are on the roads, the odds are extremely low you will be involved in a serous accident. But yet, it is a law to wear your seat belt because it does decrease your chances of getting injured.

But you do what you think is best for you. I honestly do not care what you choose. But for myself, I am prepared to meet a threat to my family and health, with counter force. And the tool I will use to do that is a firearm.

But I do agree that having a dog is a good deterrent to a home invasion. Criminals rather surprise their victims and also go after those who are defenseless. There are some other measures we can take also.

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I’m about as worried about that happening as I am about getting struck by lightning in my lifetime (which coincidentally is more likely to happen). Sorry to burst your weird fantasy, though. Unlike you, I don’t go through life fearing the odds of being a victim of unlikely events.

So you only wear a seat belt because it is the law?

The US CDC in a 2010 study commissioned by the Obama administration, concluded that firearms in the US, are a important tool in self defense and account for hundreds of thousands of cases each year of defense usage. Maybe more than a million. There is no way to know for sure, as most cases are never reported to the police. You should look it up.

[Svifnymr]

I think there's some nuance - if someone's buying TP because they think there's a societal collapse, but at least they can still wipe their ass, that seems obviously dumb to me. Likewise, if someone thinks there's a literal societal collapse is coming and thinks picking up a couple more rifles is going to make a big difference, I'd suggest that there's not really thinking clearly.

But... Put yourself in my shoes for a moment. I already own a few firearms - a target/hunting .22LR pistol, a .243 hunting rifle, a super basic Ruger 10/22 rifle. These aren't good weapons if you're ever in a combat situation. The 10/22 would be more useful as a club in most circumstances. The pistol is fine as far as it goes, but it's heavy (7 inch bull barrel, great for targets) and has very little stopping power. The hunting rifle obviously hits very hard, a reasonably placed shot drops a deer after a couple steps, but this is not a defensive weapon, it would only be useful as an aggressor (which I have no desire to be).

Look at that bunch, be someone that already likes guns, owns a few, and is interested in owning more because I'm going to the range anyway and shooting is fun. The current events haven't triggered me to panic buy, but they've reminded me that things actually could get pretty bad pretty fast and it's a dopey move to just buy toys for the range or for hunting when it's just as easy to pick up a Sig M17 and set it up for home defense.

Yeah?

An AR10 in 308 (they do make them in 243, but not common and not as reliable and you know how much 243 ammo costs) is a good comprimise on something that is generally useful for hunting (with appropriate magazines) or just about anything else that might arise. It's expensive and surplus 7.62Nato isn't as common or cheap as other alternatives, but if you want a "do all", it's there. AR10's are generally as accurate as any common bolt action anyway. Recoil can be so-so.

More common for "dual use" light hunting and EOTW is something like 7.62X39 or 300blk. Both are comparable to 30-30 for hunting purposes, but most 7.62X39's are not as accurate for hunting purposes, while 300blk is a AR15 round and they're very accurate. If you ever decide to get a silencer, 300blk is very versatile.

You could get an AR15 that can have different uppers in 9mm, 5.56 and 300blk, they're very versatile. Also quite fun and the most common competition guns made in the USA. If you get a 9mm pistol, you can get an AR15 in 9mm that uses the same magazines even.

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Quantifying that bad things rarely happen is isn't a rational argument against preparedness. It is a universally applicable principle.

That's why we don't need theft insurance or fire extinguishers, bad staff is quite uncommon. Why waste the money?

[Mayhem]

I wonder if anyone of those stocking up on firearms and ammunition think "well if shit hits the fan I am prepared" or "if shit hits the fan I am making myself a very lucrative target".