Mega-Thread: Democratic 2020 Primaries

[Doctor Amadeus]

I've said it a number of times. You choose to look at reality and say that can't be true.

She lost, doesn't matter how big a popular vote she won by she still lost. So my statement stills holds true,

No the reality is, you're out of script and your views shaped by your warped ass ideas about where you are and more importantly where everyone else is, whether you like it or not Bernie is losing because you are wrong.

[Deianeira]

It seems that people didn't learn a single thing from 2016. Polls ultimately don't matter. They're barely even suggestive of how the things that do matter will turn out. Clinton was slated to win by a sweeping, massive majority all the way up to the Monday poll release right before the election, where she was weighted to win by a modest margin. Sanders has been slated as the most popular candidate by polls, and yet even from the very beginning he was slated to only be able to win by a plurality, and even before the other candidates dropped out he was getting mixed results.

If you can't turn out the votes, it doesn't matter. And yet people keep in insisting to look at the polls, and that Sanders will definitely win against Trump, when he couldn't beat Clinton, and after four years of everyone in the world knowing all of his policies (thus negating the conspiracy theory that was the media blackout to begin with) he couldn't even dominate a plurality, or Biden one on one.

Vague polling about whether or not someone supports progressive policies didn't translate to votes in 2016, in 2018, during special elections, or in 2020. Even the darling of the progressive camp, AOC, is further to the right than Sanders, and has publicly acknowledged that she believes that compromise may be necessary to push goals forward. If Sanders supporters want Sanders to win, they needed to show up to vote more, in the numbers they claim to represent. If that isn't enough, welcome to democracy.

Dont know but in the Presidential campaigns isnt it so that more youth voters actually vote? wouldnt that be a advantage to Sanders if he where to be the nominee? Because Biden wont pull any of those to vote for him im afraid.

[JohnBrown1917]

It seems that people didn't learn a single thing from 2016. Polls ultimately don't matter. They're barely even suggestive of how the things that do matter will turn out. Clinton was slated to win by a sweeping, massive majority all the way up to the Monday poll release right before the election, where she was weighted to win by a modest margin. Sanders has been slated as the most popular candidate by polls, and yet even from the very beginning he was slated to only be able to win by a plurality, and even before the other candidates dropped out he was getting mixed results.

If you can't turn out the votes, it doesn't matter. And yet people keep in insisting to look at the polls, and that Sanders will definitely win against Trump, when he couldn't beat Clinton, and after four years of everyone in the world knowing all of his policies (thus negating the conspiracy theory that was the media blackout to begin with) he couldn't even dominate a plurality, or Biden one on one.

Sanders was performing like the polls suggested... you seem to have forgotten how the polls changed after everybody dropped it.
Its like everybody who thinks polls mean nothing have no idea how polls work.

Vague polling about whether or not someone supports progressive policies didn't translate to votes in 2016, in 2018, during special elections, or in 2020. Even the darling of the progressive camp, AOC, is further to the right than Sanders, and has publicly acknowledged that she believes that compromise may be necessary to push goals forward. If Sanders supporters want Sanders to win, they needed to show up to vote more, in the numbers they claim to represent. If that isn't enough, welcome to democracy.

Welcome to youth voter suppression.

[Ghostpanther]

It seems that people didn't learn a single thing from 2016. Polls ultimately don't matter. They're barely even suggestive of how the things that do matter will turn out. Clinton was slated to win by a sweeping, massive majority all the way up to the Monday poll release right before the election, where she was weighted to win by a modest margin. Sanders has been slated as the most popular candidate by polls, and yet even from the very beginning he was slated to only be able to win by a plurality, and even before the other candidates dropped out he was getting mixed results.

If you can't turn out the votes, it doesn't matter. And yet people keep in insisting to look at the polls, and that Sanders will definitely win against Trump, when he couldn't beat Clinton, and after four years of everyone in the world knowing all of his policies (thus negating the conspiracy theory that was the media blackout to begin with) he couldn't even dominate a plurality, or Biden one on one.

Vague polling about whether or not someone supports progressive policies didn't translate to votes in 2016, in 2018, during special elections, or in 2020. Even the darling of the progressive camp, AOC, is further to the right than Sanders, and has publicly acknowledged that she believes that compromise may be necessary to push goals forward. If Sanders supporters want Sanders to win, they needed to show up to vote more, in the numbers they claim to represent. If that isn't enough, welcome to democracy.

Well said. The one issue with polls, ( not saying they are useless as a reference ) is they are mostly done by phone calls. It is possible a 12 year old could answer it and tell the pollster something and lie about being the person the pollster wants to ask. As much as it pains some to know, Rasmussen was the second most accurate polling source on the national polls in 2016. They showed Clinton with a 4% lead and she won the popular vote by around 2%.

Besides, as you said, answering a pollster on a phone call poll, does not mean the same person will show up to vote. In Ohio for example, the polls showed Clinton with a small lead of 1 - 3%. She lost the state by 8%. :P

[Skroe]

Edit:
His media team left the comments enabled on this video. On YouTube. What did they expect to happen? It is amateur's hour at the Biden campaign, and I desperately hope it will get better, but I doubt it.

It certainly got obliterated by Bernie and Trump's Troll Armies.

[kaelleria]

It certainly got obliterated by Bernie and Trump's Troll Armies.

If only they voted..

[Skroe]

If only they voted..

Even if they did most of them don't live the right places.

[JohnBrown1917]

https://theintercept.com/2020/03/24/...etoo-times-up/

Nothing every changes with right-wing politicians, always the same scum.

If only they voted..

They do.

[Milchshake]

Hah so many pundits and twitter tastemakers read 2016 wrong, Bernie most of all!

Yesterday, the Sanders campaign sent out an email this morning, announcing it was ramping up for the scheduled April 28th New York primary with thousands of phone bank volunteers and a full-time paid staff.

I’m trying to come up with some sort of defense for this and I can’t. By my math Sanders would need to win 64.4% of the remaining delegates to get to 1,991. This is impossible. Remaining states include Georgia and Louisiana, where he is certain to lose by huge margins. He can’t possibly make up the deficit in the states where he might still be competitive with Biden.

• He lost New York 57%-41% four years ago!
• Cuomo crushed Bernie surrogate Cynthia Nixon by 40% in their primary. NY doesnt want Bernie's bullshit malarkey.

One of the reasons his campaign lost so badly is that their decisions were governed solely by people inside the Bernie bubble of delusion (including Bernie himself). Everyone is a true believer. All that insane stuff you see on Twitter, is basically what his campaign believes.

It's like trying to reason with addicts at this point (mostly online or gamer addicts). They have no shortage of bullshit rationalizations.

• The debate was going to CHANGE EVERYTHING. That didn't happen.
• Oh and did you know Biden can't even stand up. That didn't happen.
• Where's Biden? That didn't happen.
• LiveStreams with musical guests! Opiate for the twitter masses (who dont vote)
• Well on to the next thing.
• Surely, this pandemic is going to magically make everyone realize how great Bernie is & defect from Biden. We just need a few more months.

Even more pathetic & selfish than last time. He's using a pandemic to extend his campaign, which he has 0 chance of winning, just b/c he's too damn selfish & egotistical to get out of the spotlight. "Digital organizing" aka all his surrogates tweeting toxic anti-Biden garbage. The longer he stays in, & his campaign & supporters continue to attack Biden (rather than Trump), the harder it will be to convince them to eventually vote for Biden.
This is literally the strategy Trump (Bannon/Parscale) is counting on.
Bernie knows this. He does not care. 2016 all over again.

[Skroe]

Seriously what the fuck is Bernie's problem at this point.

He's not getting more leverage. He's burning what little he has.

Biden should just refuse to debate him at this point. This charade is over.

[JohnBrown1917]

Hah so many pundits and twitter tastemakers read 2016 wrong, Bernie most of all!

Yesterday, the Sanders campaign sent out an email this morning, announcing it was ramping up for the scheduled April 28th New York primary with thousands of phone bank volunteers and a full-time paid staff.

I’m trying to come up with some sort of defense for this and I can’t. By my math Sanders would need to win 64.4% of the remaining delegates to get to 1,991. This is impossible. Remaining states include Georgia and Louisiana, where he is certain to lose by huge margins. He can’t possibly make up the deficit in the states where he might still be competitive with Biden.

• He lost New York 57%-41% four years ago!
• Cuomo crushed Bernie surrogate Cynthia Nixon by 40% in their primary. NY doesnt want Bernie's bullshit malarkey.

One of the reasons his campaign lost so badly is that their decisions were governed solely by people inside the Bernie bubble of delusion (including Bernie himself). Everyone is a true believer. All that insane stuff you see on Twitter, is basically what his campaign believes.

It's like trying to reason with addicts at this point (mostly online or gamer addicts). They have no shortage of bullshit rationalizations.

• The debate was going to CHANGE EVERYTHING. That didn't happen.
• Oh and did you know Biden can't even stand up. That didn't happen.
• Where's Biden? That didn't happen.
• LiveStreams with musical guests! Opiate for the twitter masses (who dont vote)
• Well on to the next thing.
• Surely, this pandemic is going to magically make everyone realize how great Bernie is & defect from Biden. We just need a few more months.

Even more pathetic & selfish than last time. He's using a pandemic to extend his campaign, which he has 0 chance of winning, just b/c he's too damn selfish & egotistical to get out of the spotlight. "Digital organizing" aka all his surrogates tweeting toxic anti-Biden garbage. The longer he stays in, & his campaign & supporters continue to attack Biden (rather than Trump), the harder it will be to convince them to eventually vote for Biden.
This is literally the strategy Trump (Bannon/Parscale) is counting on.
Bernie knows this. He does not care. 2016 all over again.

Yeah, yeah, we get it, you prefer conservatism over social democracy. Trying to shit on Sanders for doing what he can during a pandemic is just another weak attempt at somekind of gotcha.


You should probably get rid of the anti-fa shit in your profile, its a joke.

[Lenonis]

Trying to shit on Sanders for doing what he can during a pandemic is just another weak attempt at somekind of gotcha.

If Sanders was actually doing "what he can during a pandemic" he'd suspend his campaign and donate all the remaining funds to first responders.

The post you responded to is Bernie continuing his campaign with no realistic shot at the nomination. That is doing the exact opposite of what you claim.

[Milchshake]

His heart stopped and he needs to win every remaining state by 20 points to win. Voting is going to be physically dangerous for the remainder of the primary.

I think he just hates the DNC the same way your average Fox News Addict hates the DNC.

Also why so many of his Neo Socialists, are kids that grew up watching Fox News in their gated communities.

Socialism actually involves going outside, a lot.

[Thekri]

Seriously what the fuck is Bernie's problem at this point.

He's not getting more leverage. He's burning what little he has.

Biden should just refuse to debate him at this point. This charade is over.

Well unlike Biden, at least Sanders is acting like he wants the damn job. Biden is acting like he is resigned to America just giving it to him. Which they won't.

I am no Sanders fan, but I am not going to fault the guy for trying. I would prefer a President who is willing to fight some long odds, because we need someone that will actually go toe to toe with some serious issues. Now I will fault Sanders for being a delusional fool who doesn't seem to want to understand what he is up against, but I won't fault him for trying to win.

[Skroe]

Well unlike Biden, at least Sanders is acting like he wants the damn job. Biden is acting like he is resigned to America just giving it to him. Which they won't.

I am no Sanders fan, but I am not going to fault the guy for trying. I would prefer a President who is willing to fight some long odds, because we need someone that will actually go toe to toe with some serious issues. Now I will fault Sanders for being a delusional fool who doesn't seem to want to understand what he is up against, but I won't fault him for trying to win.

The way I see it, Biden is doing the smart thing: not getting in the way of Donald Trump being his own worst enemy.

Besides, as with every presidential campaign, voter attention doesn't really begin util August anyway, with late September / October / November being the prime activity / fundraising window. I'd be more concerned about the effect the Wuhan virus has on Biden building ground game infrastructure in the 6 states that matter. Whatever Biden does not won't really carry forward until the late summer / early Fall.

And furthermore if Biden were campaigning loudly now, with what amounts to be the biggest global crisis since World War II raging, it would seem strangely out of touch. It has already denied the Trump campaign a crucial window to define Biden early.

Trump is already deep underwater in the swing counties that will decide the election. No matter how this goes, it's hard to see a situation where he climbs out of that.

[Rukh]

Well unlike Biden, at least Sanders is acting like he wants the damn job. Biden is acting like he is resigned to America just giving it to him. Which they won't.

I am no Sanders fan, but I am not going to fault the guy for trying. I would prefer a President who is willing to fight some long odds, because we need someone that will actually go toe to toe with some serious issues. Now I will fault Sanders for being a delusional fool who doesn't seem to want to understand what he is up against, but I won't fault him for trying to win.

If Sanders "wanted the damn job" he should have learned how to network and not take a huge shit on the other candidates who were bound to drop out. He lost. The only thing he can do now is hurt the democratic party and help the GOP. That's all he is achieving.

[Thekri]

The way I see it, Biden is doing the smart thing: not getting in the way of Donald Trump being his own worst enemy.

Besides, as with every presidential campaign, voter attention doesn't really begin util August anyway, with late September / October / November being the prime activity / fundraising window. I'd be more concerned about the effect the Wuhan virus has on Biden building ground game infrastructure in the 6 states that matter. Whatever Biden does not won't really carry forward until the late summer / early Fall.

And furthermore if Biden were campaigning loudly now, with what amounts to be the biggest global crisis since World War II raging, it would seem strangely out of touch. It has already denied the Trump campaign a crucial window to define Biden early.

Trump is already deep underwater in the swing counties that will decide the election. No matter how this goes, it's hard to see a situation where he climbs out of that.

Bullshit. Trump is in front of the nation every single day to an audience of millions. Biden is putting out youtube videos with production quality and view counts that would embarrass a 16 year old Overwatch streamer.

Trump is not his own worst enemy. If you are still laboring under the illusion that America will suddenly snap out of a 4 year coma and realize they are being conned, I don't know what to tell you, because that isn't grounded in reality. Trump's brand of lies and blame works wonders when people are scared, and they are more scared now then they have been his whole Presidency. By being silent, Biden is turning the entire narrative over to Trump.

Remember when you said the Mueller investigation would forever taint and cripple Trump? It didn't. Because Trump wrote the narrative for it. Remember when you said impeachment would weigh him down in November? That aged fucking horribly.

Trump can climb out of any holes he may be in in about a day. This isn't over until the polls close, and if Biden will never get a better chance to make his case then he has right now. If Trump's actions kill 12 million Americans, he will paint as the Democrats fault, and Biden will get annihilated in November. Because he didn't control the narrative.

[Skroe]

Bullshit. Trump is in front of the nation every single day to an audience of millions. Biden is putting out youtube videos with production quality and view counts that would embarrass a 16 year old Overwatch streamer.

Trump is not his own worst enemy. If you are still laboring under the illusion that America will suddenly snap out of a 4 year coma and realize they are being conned, I don't know what to tell you, because that isn't grounded in reality. Trump's brand of lies and blame works wonders when people are scared, and they are more scared now then they have been his whole Presidency. By being silent, Biden is turning the entire narrative over to Trump.

Remember when you said the Mueller investigation would forever taint and cripple Trump? It didn't. Because Trump wrote the narrative for it. Remember when you said impeachment would weigh him down in November? That aged fucking horribly.

Trump can climb out of any holes he may be in in about a day. This isn't over until the polls close, and if Biden will never get a better chance to make his case then he has right now. If Trump's actions kill 12 million Americans, he will paint as the Democrats fault, and Biden will get annihilated in November. Because he didn't control the narrative.

Nonsense. I think you're badly overestimating Trump's ability to shape a narrative and badly underestimating the damage Mueller and Impeachment did to him. Both, along with with his 2018 election route, constrained him from doing terribly much as President besides some modest tinkering with regulations. There has been nothing he has done that couldn't be undone. He has been constrained from reshaping government, other than through lack of appointment.

Trump's tricks work on his base. They are irredeemable. And not remotely enough to ensure him a win in November or empower him beyond that.

In terms of where we are in beating Trump in November, I like where we are and I'm generally pleased with the results of the path we've walked down in confronting him since 2017. There is no out-showmanning Trump. That's essentially what you're imploring Biden to do. Get on TV and put on a counter-Trump show. It won't work. It won't do anything.

What will work is slow and meticulous cultivation of the 6 swing states and 300 swing counties that will decide the election, where Biden is already in excellent shape.

[Telogrus]

The way I see it, Biden is doing the smart thing: not getting in the way of Donald Trump being his own worst enemy.

Besides, as with every presidential campaign, voter attention doesn't really begin util August anyway, with late September / October / November being the prime activity / fundraising window. I'd be more concerned about the effect the Wuhan virus has on Biden building ground game infrastructure in the 6 states that matter. Whatever Biden does not won't really carry forward until the late summer / early Fall.

And furthermore if Biden were campaigning loudly now, with what amounts to be the biggest global crisis since World War II raging, it would seem strangely out of touch. It has already denied the Trump campaign a crucial window to define Biden early.

Trump is already deep underwater in the swing counties that will decide the election. No matter how this goes, it's hard to see a situation where he climbs out of that.

Yeah that’s why Trump’s handling of coronavirus has a 61% approval rating

[Skroe]

Yeah that’s why Trump’s handling of coronavirus has a 61% approval rating

What was Jimmy Carter's approval rating at the start of the Iran Hostage Crisis again?

I'll wait. Americans are fickle. I'm really not concerned about that Gallup poll one bit.