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  1. #41
    Too bad the end game is lacking. It was a lot of fun leveling up, especailly doing the endless dungeons like POTD on new jobs.

    Great game, even if it is slower. But it lacks mechanics, the raids are all dont stand in this, dont fall off the edge of the single, very bland "room" you are in. I say room, its often just a tile or circle floating in mid air.

    There is also very little daily content to do. But it does offer content you can grind to your hearts content that is somewhat rewarding.

    I could say wow could borrow a few pages from its book. But it also will never provide meaningful end game for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by threadz View Post
    getting hit by telegraphs is not really a lag issues it's a player issue. and most mmos that came out recently have loading screens. even travelling around wow has loading screens. you don't go from zandalar to northrend with no loading.
    You can go from westfall to elwynn forest tho.

    Or drustvar to stormsong.

    The having to jump to update your position once you are out of a telegraph, or just know where its going to be ahead of time IS 100% still an issue as of Shadowbringers.
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  2. #42
    nothing is worse than shitty anime tropes

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by threadz View Post
    getting hit by telegraphs is not really a lag issues it's a player issue. and most mmos that came out recently have loading screens. even travelling around wow has loading screens. you don't go from zandalar to northrend with no loading.
    He just used the wrong word. FF14 has a slower server tick compared to WoW so there are many occasions where you think you're out of an AoE but you're not since the slower server tick did not register your movement yet. Unfortunately this is something so deeply ingrained into the games engine that I doubt they could change the netcode to a faster tick even if they wanted to.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Playintrafic View Post
    Too bad the end game is lacking. It was a lot of fun leveling up, especailly doing the endless dungeons like POTD on new jobs.

    Great game, even if it is slower. But it lacks mechanics, the raids are all dont stand in this, dont fall off the edge of the single, very bland "room" you are in. I say room, its often just a tile or circle floating in mid air.

    There is also very little daily content to do. But it does offer content you can grind to your hearts content that is somewhat rewarding.

    I could say wow could borrow a few pages from its book. But it also will never provide meaningful end game for me.

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    You can go from westfall to elwynn forest tho.

    Or drustvar to stormsong.

    The having to jump to update your position once you are out of a telegraph, or just know where its going to be ahead of time IS 100% still an issue as of Shadowbringers.
    everyone that says telegraphs lag don't realize its all based off their cast bar not the telegraph. and id take loading screens with teleporting over flying for 10 min.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by threadz View Post
    getting hit by telegraphs is not really a lag issues it's a player issue. and most mmos that came out recently have loading screens. even travelling around wow has loading screens. you don't go from zandalar to northrend with no loading.
    And the award for "person who did not bother to read the post they quoted" goes to you. He explicitly said you should not get a loading screen unless you enter an instant or load into a whole new continent. Thanks for playing.
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  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by agentsi View Post
    So at any given point, it can do any number of different mechanics. It isn't scripted to the point its doing the exact same thing, over and over and over no matter how many attempts you have.
    Is that something new? Because last tier I bothered with was Dazar'alor and the encounters are scripted like every other MMO. A boss switches phases at the same hp%, any given mechanic is the same no matter how many pulls you do, they happened at the same timing and you deal with them the same way every time they happen. The only things that vary are if the mechanic targets a character sometimes it will target someone different. Otherwise as far as I still played WoW, which was Conclave mythic and last boss of Crucible heroic, the game also has scripted bosses. I'm really not seeing this interactivity you claim WoW bosses have where they do any mechanic at any given point and every pull plays differently, but then again maybe it's something new.

    As for GW2 I don't know much about it, last I played it they didn't have a holy trinity and things were very chaotic because of it so I didn't bother much with dungeoneering. So I guess that's one tab target MMO that doesn't have bosses the same as others seem to have. Guess I was wrong and should have said "most" instead of "every" MMO of this style.

    Quote Originally Posted by agentsi View Post
    And again no. Looking at the top dps specs, there are variations between almost all of them. Gear preferences, talents, etc. I'm going with WoW as an example of that. But even with Aff specific warlocks, there are talent and gear variations. To where in FFXIV, you are that class, you are this spec, end.
    You can prefer as many things as you want. There's still one build that's the most efficient at something and the rest are not. You can pick different talents based on the gear you have before BiS but then you are not being the most efficient, you are still on the road working towards being the most efficient. It's hard to escape the truth of min/maxing that there is one most efficient way of doing things. However, again, I agree and was saying changing things based on preferences would be nice, and that FFXIV presenting jobs with no option for variations is kinda lame and wish it was different. From where I'm standing it looks like we are saying the same thing here friend.
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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhall View Post
    Have they cut down the spell bloat? The combat felt slow like I was just queuing up spells and waiting. The spells felt unimpactful. I've subbed a few xpacs and got to max level to bored really fast.

    It feels refreshing each time then I quit pretty quick.
    They've improved it across the board, but it is still based on a job by job basis. Some jobs like the Machinist can't even fill up 2 12 button bars, but classes like the Gunbreaker can barely fit in 3 bars.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyral View Post
    I mean, every raid boss in every tab target MMO is literally a scripted encounter. I can't think of an MMO of this style that has bosses with adaptable AI that behaves differently every encounter or changes based on player behaviour. The most variation that ever happens is RNG picking a different player for a specific mechanic but that's that
    There's a difference between every single pull I'm at the exact same GCD at the exact same timing as every single other player and WoW's thing where every pull, while similar, is not IDENTICAL. FF14 raiding is fun, I do enjoy it. It's the ONLY reason besides story and glamour that I actually play, but the combat is not very dynamic at all. WoW has a million faults, but it's combat engine and the dynamic play it allows is certainly not it.

    And yeah, Jobs are predetermined. There's one correct way to play it and no variations. I mean that's true for every MMO as well, there's a specific build that will be the best performing one but at least in other MMOs you get to pick an under performing build if you feel like it for whatever reason. There's no options for customization of gameplay in FFXIV and I doubt there'll ever be since this isn't a raid or die game. I share in your disappointment in that regard.
    We're in agreement on FF14's lacking customization for gameplay, but you're downplaying build variety immensely. While it is true that there tends to be a single mathematical solution for any scenario, there are varying scenarios that prevent a one size fits all, while also not accounting for gearing setups/talent synergies.

    If 2 talents are within 2% of each other (common), but one is drastically more fun to play, or perhaps better suited to my secondary setup, or maybe less punishing allowing me to focus more on mechanics, that's all HUGE for gameplay diversity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Poppincaps View Post
    I will say I think FFXIV has the problem of being too predictable and WoW has the problem of being too unpredictable. Fortunately FFXIV's formula works for me.
    I must agree. This is generally my opinion on the 2 games. I want FF14 to be a bit more dynamic and build in some synergy/risks, and I want WoW to get some vision and structure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyral View Post
    That's cute. The grind must really be boring some of these people up.
    This is honestly a disrespectful and inflammatory response and does nothing to facilitate a healthy discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Poppincaps View Post
    You say that but everyone in WoW has the same build anyways. I'd say the classes are way better designed in FFXIV overall.
    See above for my response about build diversity. With respect to job design I'm not sure I can agree. I think thematically they're better for sure. However, almost all kits are completely devoid of any internal or external synergy and that alone IMO makes them designed more poorly. However, I've gone on record before stating that I personally think Wow does melee classes much better than FF14, whereas FF14 does casters better, but then again I am probably marginally biased and think positionals are a bane on the combat engine

    Quote Originally Posted by Depakote View Post
    I tried it a bit but the map is a bit hard to navigate. If someone has any suggestions on how to get around better and to know where to go then feel free to tell me. The story looks interesting though.
    The map sucks, not much you can do about it. Just get used to it, and it'll become second nature. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD THOUGH WHY DOES ESCAPE NOT CLOSE THE MAP WITH THE OTHER WINDOWS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Poppincaps View Post
    Yeah unfortunately the new player experience isn't great. Around level 60 is when the classes really start coming into their own and at 80 they all feel really good.
    Agreed. Of all FF14's flaws, it's BY AND FAR worst is the new player experience. Everything from creating an account to playing the beginning of the game is just abysmal and loses so many players.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Yeah, the whole, "STOP HATING ON OUR GAME WOW KIDS" is a common reply in this forum whenever anyone has even the slightest criticism.

    It's kinda silly, because for the most part those of us with criticisms are the ones that actually play the game and like it. But people get defensive for some reason.
    Bingo. I criticize the game because I love it and want to see it be better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhall View Post
    Have they cut down the spell bloat? The combat felt slow like I was just queuing up spells and waiting. The spells felt unimpactful. I've subbed a few xpacs and got to max level to bored really fast.

    It feels refreshing each time then I quit pretty quick.
    Unfortunately they have only mitigated it somewhat, I personally think there's more room to go.

    Quote Originally Posted by mario710 View Post
    No.
    You're unbanned again huh

    Quote Originally Posted by threadz View Post
    getting hit by telegraphs is not really a lag issues it's a player issue. and most mmos that came out recently have loading screens. even travelling around wow has loading screens. you don't go from zandalar to northrend with no loading.

    everyone that says telegraphs lag don't realize its all based off their cast bar not the telegraph. and id take loading screens with teleporting over flying for 10 min.[
    To be fair, it's non-intuitive. Obviously as a savage raider I'm well used to it and completely fine, but it's definitely not the most intuitive mechanic in game design. They really should design the cast bars and telegraphs and animations to be more simultaneous. It's one of WoW's best features IMO.

    I mean, FF14 has loading screens and flying...

    I don't care for flying in either game just as an FYI, I think it trivializes outdoor exploration/content.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyral View Post
    Is that something new? Because last tier I bothered with was Dazar'alor and the encounters are scripted like every other MMO. A boss switches phases at the same hp%, any given mechanic is the same no matter how many pulls you do, they happened at the same timing and you deal with them the same way every time they happen.
    FF14 doesn't use HP triggers any more, which is a huge hit to gameplay diversity IMO. Yeah it made some wonky ass things happen when you outgeared content significantly, but I'm cool with it. Now it's just strict timeline script. WoW has phase changes based on those as well as loose CD usage on their mechanics. Not only can they opt to cast one before the other, but they can delay, when coupled with both class gameplay diversity and timing differentials creates the difference between a similar pull (wow) and an identical pull (ff14).

    There's still one build that's the most efficient at something and the rest are not. You can pick different talents based on the gear you have before BiS but then you are not being the most efficient, you are still on the road working towards being the most efficient. It's hard to escape the truth of min/maxing that there is one most efficient way of doing things. However, again, I agree and was saying changing things based on preferences would be nice, and that FFXIV presenting jobs with no option for variations is kinda lame and wish it was different. From where I'm standing it looks like we are saying the same thing here friend.
    But this is exactly the point. yes BiS usually is a mathematical statement, but no one has BiS for months. Months of gameplay diversity based on drops, gearing, talents, learning fights. That's the point.

    FF14 has NONE of this. Learning it and farming it are identical experiences, just cutting the fight short at the end.
    Last edited by Wrecktangle; 2020-03-26 at 04:43 PM.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Yeah, the whole, "STOP HATING ON OUR GAME WOW KIDS" is a common reply in this forum whenever anyone has even the slightest criticism.

    It's kinda silly, because for the most part those of us with criticisms are the ones that actually play the game and like it. But people get defensive for some reason.
    its mostly because its painfully obvious when people played to like lvl 20 and quit and their criticisms are based off of 2 hours of gameplay.

  10. #50
    I really really wanted to like FFxiv, but the class rotations really need to be reigned in. i was trying to play samurai and, depending on how much haste i had, there were 3 different THIRTY FUCKING FIVE GCD rotations i had to learn, and execute perfectly while in combat dealing with mechanics, or my dps went to hell, and thats also including at least 1 off-gcd ability used between every on-GCD ability, also with an exact rotation. it was literally the opposite of fun and wasnt worth the effort. It wouldnt be so bad if if it had decent addon support so you could at least use some sort of rotation helper, but nope. and from what i understand samurai is one of the easiest to learn. fml they need to fix that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by threadz View Post
    everyone that says telegraphs lag don't realize its all based off their cast bar not the telegraph. and id take loading screens with teleporting over flying for 10 min.
    ive always felt that the need to explain this and understand it has been a flaw in ffxiv since day 1. wildstar was much better in that regard. if you got out of the ability before it went off, you were safe. in ffxiv, when i played, you could easily get out of the telegraph for an ability 3 seconds before it graphically goes off on your screen and still get hit. yeah i understand why it happens, but it doesnt make it any more fun or any more intuitive.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Except everyone that it's been thrown at has shown that they're anything but trial players.

    It's just a dumb, defensive attitude that isn't necessary at all.

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    Sure, but you don't go from one side of a town to another in XIV without loading screens.

    It's not the end of the world. It's another one of those issues that seems to be a consequence of console integration. There's no point in acting like it's not a thing, or trying to make absurd comparisons. It's an element of the game that could be better if circumstances were different, that's all.

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    Yeah, I've had to explain it countless times in NN. Pretty sure I should have just made a macro.

    It works fine, it's just not intuitive. Especially given the expectation that other games have set up in this regard.
    not only is it unintuitive, but its frustrating. it really sucks to try and dodge telegraphs, think you are safe, only to die a few seconds later. that delay between mistake and consequences, and holding your breathe waiting to know the outcome, is really aggravating and doesnt add anything to the experience.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Right. The fact that you can walk all the way to Kansas and fall over dead to an attack that visually hits New York is really, really weird to new players.

    Once you "get it" you get it, but it can really rub people the wrong way.
    well my point was even once you get it, it can still be unnecessarily frustrating.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by threadz View Post
    getting hit by telegraphs is not really a lag issues it's a player issue. and most mmos that came out recently have loading screens. even travelling around wow has loading screens. you don't go from zandalar to northrend with no loading.
    No, it's the game issue. Example - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0aTAKji7zM

    I played all classes to 20+ in the Beta and I played a few others up to 50ish once the game released. I wrote a, like, 6,000 word review on the game during this time. Here it is - https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion...houghts#latest
    Last edited by sephrinx; 2020-03-26 at 08:01 PM.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    We're in agreement on FF14's lacking customization for gameplay, but you're downplaying build variety immensely. While it is true that there tends to be a single mathematical solution for any scenario, there are varying scenarios that prevent a one size fits all, while also not accounting for gearing setups/talent synergies.

    If 2 talents are within 2% of each other (common), but one is drastically more fun to play, or perhaps better suited to my secondary setup, or maybe less punishing allowing me to focus more on mechanics, that's all HUGE for gameplay diversity.
    I'm not though. That is the point. In min/maxing there will always be a calculated optimal way to play something, but that shouldn't be a deterrent to allow other styles of play. That is why I said I agree with the person I was replying to. I do value build diversity, I do wish there were more ways, or actually any way besides melding wrong on purpose, to change the gameplay of a job in FFXIV if ever just slightly. Having options is always good and healthy for a game's gameplay.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    This is honestly a disrespectful and inflammatory response and does nothing to facilitate a healthy discussion.
    Good. People who come to a thread originally discussing the visuals and performance of a game to turn it into a bitch fest about how their MMO can beat up your MMO are showing no respect and thus will get none from me. Thought out posts get thought out replies, shit talkers get first mockery and then contempt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    But this is exactly the point. yes BiS usually is a mathematical statement, but no one has BiS for months. Months of gameplay diversity based on drops, gearing, talents, learning fights. That's the point.

    FF14 has NONE of this. Learning it and farming it are identical experiences, just cutting the fight short at the end.
    Ironically this is why I quit WoW. Clearing a fight felt as good as farming it to me. I got sick of just getting on every week to do the same things over and over hoping for RNG to drop that one item that will make the fight shorter next time because once you learn it it's always the same thing. FFXIV has the same issue in its raiding but at least the game has more things to do other than raiding, where in WoW if I wanted to stop going to work take a break from raiding to have fun all I had was PvP and eventually just got bored of that too.

    But I wont ignore the actual point you were making, I agree with it completely as I said already above. The fact that items are locked to jobs is yet another symptom of the issue of the game being completely adverse to player freedom when it comes to PvE. I don't think they should be padding a fight's longevity by adding layers of RNG to drops, I like the gearing to be simple and quick and not require too much farming, but if they were to loosen restrictions of what equipment you can put on which job and add more options to change the gameplay that would be affected by the larger pool of available gear and stats it would definitely improve the game.
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  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by sephrinx View Post
    No, it's the game issue. Example - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0aTAKji7zM

    I played all classes to 20+ in the Beta and I played a few others up to 50ish once the game released. I wrote a, like, 6,000 word review on the game during this time. Here it is - https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion...houghts#latest
    a review from 7 years ago? that will surely give an accurate assessment of the game.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyral View Post
    Ironically this is why I quit WoW. Clearing a fight felt as good as farming it to me. I got sick of just getting on every week to do the same things over and over hoping for RNG to drop that one item that will make the fight shorter next time because once you learn it it's always the same thing. FFXIV has the same issue in its raiding but at least the game has more things to do other than raiding, where in WoW if I wanted to stop going to work take a break from raiding to have fun all I had was PvP and eventually just got bored of that too.
    Ok we're in agreement on the other items then - humor me though, when you say you have other things to do like what exactly are you doing in game that's fun? I'm genuinely struggling. Barring leveling other jobs in old ass content I've seen dozens of times I just can't find much to do that is entertaining.

    But I wont ignore the actual point you were making, I agree with it completely as I said already above. The fact that items are locked to jobs is yet another symptom of the issue of the game being completely adverse to player freedom when it comes to PvE. I don't think they should be padding a fight's longevity by adding layers of RNG to drops, I like the gearing to be simple and quick and not require too much farming, but if they were to loosen restrictions of what equipment you can put on which job and add more options to change the gameplay that would be affected by the larger pool of available gear and stats it would definitely improve the game.
    Ok - let's pivot then. How would you change FF14 to create the ideal system you've outlined some minor and vague examples below, but toss me some specifics.

  17. #57
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    It was great, didn't bother with Shadowbringer's after they completely dumbed down the healing classes while also failing to give them a new job as well. They have added 4 DPS jobs since the last healer... not sticking around when they keep screwing one role.

  18. #58
    Do not play FFXIV unless you're prepared to care about the story. The game cares way more about telling a story than it does about being fun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by threadz View Post
    everyone that says telegraphs lag don't realize its all based off their cast bar not the telegraph. and id take loading screens with teleporting over flying for 10 min.
    Depends on the lag. Some things I have to be moving before the cast starts to make it in time with my lag, so no, sometimes it's just lag.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    To be fair, it's non-intuitive. Obviously as a savage raider I'm well used to it and completely fine, but it's definitely not the most intuitive mechanic in game design. They really should design the cast bars and telegraphs and animations to be more simultaneous. It's one of WoW's best features IMO.
    How does it work? I've read the replies here and I don't understand what the system in FFXIV does. It's always felt wrong but I couldn't work out what it's doing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Addiena
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  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by agentsi View Post
    I understand that 100%.

    I just wish the class/combat system was a bit different. I hate that as a bLM, we're all the same. Either Crit or SPS builds. And to min/max you have to be at one extreme or the other. I really like the idea of talent systems that you change based on what works best for specific fights etc.
    thats basically my only pain point in the game, other than dx11 issues

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