Soundless mount drop on first kill

[Trenbolone]

So, my gf started playing a few months ago. We played casually and made our way to Nazjatar recently. While working on rep doing quests we bumped into Soundless. And bam! She got it!
I was not aware of this mount drop, because i didnt play much of BFA, but being a mount collector i looked up the details. And i was stunned. Some people reporting 300, 500, 700, or even close to 1000 kills without mount dropping.
So yeah. How lucky was that?

And why am i posting this..
Is this a good game design? Crazy rare items that drive collectors mad. And crazy rare items that might drop for players who dont really care about the game by "accident?"
What do you think? What would be a good alternative? Or is it alright as it is?

[Azerate]

Yeah, I think it's fine.

A casual player will just go through the content and occassionally get lucky, maybe even very lucky. Nothing wrong with that.

Collectors want everything, and trust me, as a collector I can tell you that it all more or less events out. Some things you will get on your 5th attempt, some on your 500th attempt.

And it's not like everything in the game is rng based. There's plenty of collector items that require high end pve and pvp.

[Clozer]

"Look guys I got something rare the first time"

Cool thread man

I rather think OP is mad that he didn't get what he wanted. No one who gets a free mount goes on the forums and complains.

[lockybalboa]

I got Sha mount in under 30 tries. Beat that.

[Ragnarohk]

So, my gf started playing a few months ago. We played casually and made our way to Nazjatar recently. While working on rep doing quests we bumped into Soundless. And bam! She got it!
I was not aware of this mount drop, because i didnt play much of BFA, but being a mount collector i looked up the details. And i was stunned. Some people reporting 300, 500, 700, or even close to 1000 kills without mount dropping.
So yeah. How lucky was that?

And why am i posting this..
Is this a good game design? Crazy rare items that drive collectors mad. And crazy rare items that might drop for players who dont really care about the game by "accident?"
What do you think? What would be a good alternative? Or is it alright as it is?

I ran my sister through Ulduar (her first time ever) and Mimiron's Head dropped, she gave it to me. I had been farming that on and off for years.

[Unlimited Power]

Eh, most dedicated collectors have a ton of characters they use for mount runs. It's the only way to do it efficiently. I've personally been quite gifted with the 8.3 rares and even Soundless which I got in just 15 tries (with an average drop rate of 1/200). Soundless itself is poorly designed not because of the low drop rate itself, but the vastly higher spawn timer compared to every other rare mob that drops mounts.

Getting these sorts of mounts is fine if you're farming it while it's current content since there's bound to be groups up in the group finder very quickly. It'll be something else entirely once Shadowlands launches and you'll need to camp upwards of 3 hours on each character just for a single kill.

[Coconut]

Soundless is poorly designed. It's a very rare spawn with a very low drop rate (and a random spawn location), which is kind of a "fuck you" to collectors. It's one of those cases where devs design for world building and concept rather than player experience.

Ironically, however, this mob manages to showcase the best in the community. People open up groups and keep them open for several minutes, sometimes even advertising them on Discord, and most of the time make a point of waiting for everyone to go change war mode if necessary and then make their way to the mob. If it gets attacked, mages make sure to polymorph it so it doesn't die before everyone is ready to tag. It's really quite heartwarming.

Unfortunately, in the future these groups will become more rare as people start spending time in the new zones, and it will be harder to keep the mob alive against high level players hitting like a truck. Eventually, it will get to the point where anyone will be able to one shot him and nobody will be making groups at all, effectively removing the positive aspect of his design (if you can call it that - the groups only show that collectors tend to not be asshole, not that they enjoy when devs design like assholes for them).

This rare features all the problems MoP world bosses had (something that shows whoever came up with it didn't learn from the past), and considering those were changed (the random spawn location of Sha, the long spawn timers of Galleon and Oondasta, the instant death), I expect something will be done about Soundless as well. In this case, a higher drop rate (maybe even guaranteed?) might be the optimal solution.

The fact that people who don't care can get lucky isn't bad, it's just a random thing that happens. What I can tell you, knowing at least two people who randomly got the mount from Sha of Anger and nevertheless quit WoW, is that super prestigious mounts aren't going to make average players more invested in the game. Blizzard should treat mounts and other vanity items as content, whether it's geared towards collectors or the playerbase in general, and make sure the experience of hunting them is engaging and enjoyable. The practice of "wouldn't it be cool to add this super rare, almost mythical thing of legend that only a small fraction of people will ever get?" is ultimately just devs having fun with world building, and even though it might get support from armchair designers (and trolls) who endorse the concept without really caring to engage with the gameplay of farming it, is not what players generally like or want from the game.

[Puri]

What I can tell you, knowing at least two people who randomly got the mount from Sha of Anger and nevertheless quit WoW, is that super prestigious mounts aren't going to make average players more invested in the game.

That seems to be quite a missunderstanding. Having prestigious mounts is not making players - average or sophisticated - more invested into the game. Farming prestigious mounts on the other hand is making the collecting players more invested in the game. Having it drop at a high rate would take away a great deal of time those players invest in the game, while still not making it any more (or even less) interesting to the average player.

[Coconut]

That seems to be quite a missunderstanding. Having prestigious mounts is not making players - average or sophisticated - more invested into the game. Farming prestigious mounts on the other hand is making the collecting players more invested in the game. Having it drop at a high rate would take away a great deal of time those players invest in the game, while still not making it any more (or even less) interesting to the average player.

As a high end collector, I can tell you there is a sweet spot for how much time it should take to collect something. You want to spend some time hunting, of course, that's part of the fun, but if it takes too long you get tired of that content or burnt out. Especially when your "gameplay" is basically camping and spamming the group finder for a particular rare. You can compare collectors with raiders if you wish - raiders complain too if the gearing process is clunky, frustrating or unrewarding. Soundless in particular does not provide a good hunting experience (the other rares this expansion are a bit worse than Argus, but better than WoD).

[slavrix]

I got Sha mount in under 30 tries. Beat that.

i hate you

- - - Updated - - -

Soundless is poorly designed. It's a very rare spawn with a very low drop rate (and a random spawn location), which is kind of a "fuck you" to collectors. It's one of those cases where devs design for world building and concept rather than player experience.

Collectors are collectors.
if they want it they will farm it, thats how it works. If its garunteed it isn't worth the chase.

Its all about that dopamine hit after the chase is over.

[Blackmist]

I've only even seen the fucking thing twice. Fuck farming that kind of shit.

[Coconut]

Collectors are collectors.
if they want it they will farm it, thats how it works. If its garunteed it isn't worth the chase.

Its all about that dopamine hit after the chase is over.

How about we be treated like actual players who want some enjoyable content, not dogs who would do anything? Thank you!

[Ielenia]

Is this a good game design? Crazy rare items that drive collectors mad. And crazy rare items that might drop for players who dont really care about the game by "accident?"
What do you think? What would be a good alternative? Or is it alright as it is?

Yes, it's "good game design". It's "rare" for a reason. You either put in a LOT of effort (mythic raid last boss' mount) or put in a LOT of time (RNG drop from rares).

[Ehrenpanzer]

i hate you

- - - Updated - - -



Collectors are collectors.
if they want it they will farm it, thats how it works. If its garunteed it isn't worth the chase.

Its all about that dopamine hit after the chase is over.

I wouldnt mind seeing a weekly % increase on legacy mounts though, even as small as 1/2% a week... If you are determined enough to run a place for 4 years every week, you deserve the mount

[Daedius]

I ran my sister through Ulduar (her first time ever) and Mimiron's Head dropped, she gave it to me. I had been farming that on and off for years.

Admit it, you had a sibling fight till she surrendered it...

[Soeroah]

IMO it would be fine for it to work like this if the drop was guaranteed after some number of kills. I strongly feel that rares as rare as (or rarer) than Soundless ought to drop their special drops at a very high rate, but failing that I would at least like a 0.5% stacking increase per kill across the account.

There comes a point where the positivity from chasing a rare drop is replaced by irritation it hasn't dropped yet, and in my experience getting a 'rare' drop early on feels much better than later on. Unless you are getting something else at the same time so every kill feels like it's worthwhile, going after the same drop a hundred times and having the same chance of failure the next time becomes more annoying than anything, and at that point when the drop finally drops it's less a positive burst of exhilaration than it is "finally, that's over with, onto the next one".

I've found every 8.3 mount to be much better designed than the 8.2 ones, but I do honestly prefer the Argus ones; the rares weren't up every day, but on days where they were up they respawned very fast, and they had a decent drop rate. Those and Warfronts are my preferred style of rare spawns: not always active, but spawn frequently when they are.

[Daedius]

I despise obscenely low drop rates.

More so if it's banded with a long respawn time!!

Either keep it long respawn to a 100% drop, or daily to a low chance with a short respawn time. NOT FUCKING BOTH LIKE SOUNDLESS' CASE!!!

[Castration]

So, my gf started playing a few months ago. We played casually and made our way to Nazjatar recently. While working on rep doing quests we bumped into Soundless. And bam! She got it!
I was not aware of this mount drop, because i didnt play much of BFA, but being a mount collector i looked up the details. And i was stunned. Some people reporting 300, 500, 700, or even close to 1000 kills without mount dropping.
So yeah. How lucky was that?

And why am i posting this..
Is this a good game design? Crazy rare items that drive collectors mad. And crazy rare items that might drop for players who dont really care about the game by "accident?"
What do you think? What would be a good alternative? Or is it alright as it is?

what is the point of this thread?

[Yarathir]

Is this a good game design? Crazy rare items that drive collectors mad. And crazy rare items that might drop for players who dont really care about the game by "accident?"
What do you think? What would be a good alternative? Or is it alright as it is?

I don't really think it is. It doesn't really embrace any sense of prestige or achievement like people pretend it does, either.

I feel like they ought to add some sort of bad luck protection to rare drops, so that you have something tangible to work towards. Yes, somebody could get it in 1-5 tries, still, but at least it would allow for people with less lottery level luck to have something to grasp at, rather than just being as likely to get it the 700th time as they are the first time.

There'd still be rarity/chance involved, but you would eventually be rewarded for persisting, making it a little more fair and more of an achievement instead of just totally rolling the dice.

Congratulations to your girlfriend, btw.

[Azerate]

The fun thing about soundless was how the community handled this rare mob imo. I know I may sound like a wow classic fanboy, but to overcome a somewhat ridiculous game mechanic, the players have come together, created farming communities, started hosting big raid groups whenever they found the mob up etc. For a second it stopped being "me me me". People started to genuinely care to wait for others, to invite as many people as possible, even summon those without pathfinder to the spawn.

I play with a guild, so I don't really lack social interaction in the game, nor do I crave it in the open world, but farming soundless was probably the most social activity I ever participated in wow (aside from guild events obviously). True, the 8 hour respawn timer coupled with 0,5% drop chance seemed a bit ridiculous at first, but thanks to how the players handled the situation, it was honestly easier to farm than Rustfeather and Spider in Mechagon (though it took me significantly more attempts - 370).

I do also think that from time to time the game needs something rarer than the 'average' 1% chance mounts. Soundless is a one-off in BfA, now that IEs have been significantly nerfed as far as drop rarity. It's not like every single rare mob that drops a mount uses this design, in that case I would agree that it's a problem.