Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[Gaidax]

Fighting over turf and making an enemy of the feds by trampling in their garden would be momentously stupid at a time like this. The risk is not worth the reward. Presently. That calculation may change. More likely however is that the Feds will oh so slowly start making better decisions when faced with ugly truths.

Yes, I guess it's better having people dead and packing Hospitals, just to be sure the pecking order is preserved.

It's absurd.

[Gorsameth]

Fair enough, but the National Guards are paid with Federal Wages and Funds the majority of Equipment etc... and Trump can easily order them back.

5 minutes on google makes me know more about your country then you do...
No, when a Governor deploys his states National Guard for a mission the costs are on the State, only if they are Federalised by the President does the federal government pay for their deployment (like what happened in the wake of hurricane Katrina).

[Soulwind]

Fighting over turf and making an enemy of the feds by trampling in their garden would be momentously stupid at a time like this. The risk is not worth the reward. Presently. That calculation may change. More likely however is that the Feds will oh so slowly start making better decisions when faced with ugly truths.

The risk is maybe going to prison once this is over, if it's ever truly over.

The reward is thousands of people not dying in the next few months.

[Acidbaron]

So what you're saying is that nobody will do anything until Trump and a dozen or so underlings have died of Coronavirus.

Action will only be taken when the far right narrative changes and this is not going to happen before it is too late, he is looking to his base for queues as to what they want. So when Fox news to name one example changes their tone, he will change it also. Not a very complicated man to predict his actions, he simply moves with whatever gets him admiration from his worshipping base.

That and once he finds another scape goat, probably going to blame someone near him in addition to the other side.

[Soulwind]

Action will only be taken when the far right narrative changes and this is not going to happen before it is too late, he is looking to his base for queues as to what they want. So when Fox news to name one example changes their tone, he will change it also. Not a very complicated man to predict his actions, he simply moves with whatever gets him admiration from his worshipping base.

That and once he finds another scape goat, probably going to blame someone near him in addition to the other side.

Look, man, I'm in Spain, a week or two away from an absolute shitshow if the charts follow Italy's evolution, and yet I'm more horrified of what is going to happen in the US.

[Mayhem]

Provinces, the size of US counties, were locked down by both local and national foces. Meaning local and state police could lock down US counties.

Countries, the size of US states, were locked down by national forces. Meaning state police could lock down US states.

US federal police would certainly help with the lockdown, but it shouldn't be required to start doing it.

But herein lies the problem, it's not about forces but also about differences between country and county borders it's about laws as well as points of entry. European countries could relatively easily enact border controls because the points of entry are the same as when there were borders. Counties on the other hand never had them, especially not in the US. That's a vastly different thing and suddenly requires way more manpower than they'd ever needed.

I mean if we look at Italy vs. USA, Italy has 50% more police forces per capita than the US and way less Land to cover.

[szechuan]

5 minutes on google makes me know more about your country then you do...
No, when a Governor deploys his states National Guard for a mission the costs are on the State, only if they are Federalised by the President does the federal government pay for their deployment (like what happened in the wake of hurricane Katrina).

Did you miss the part where Trump said it was to Provide Medical Assistance, Not for Enforcing Borders or a Quarantine?

The Equipment they use are all mostly paid by the Federal Government, not the States, the States may FUND a mission but the Majority is still paid by the Federal Government.

[Zaktar]

The risk is maybe going to prison once this is over, if it's ever truly over.

The reward is thousands of people not dying in the next few months.

The risk is conflict between the federal government and local or state governments, loss of federal money or aid for the state, and fighting with the people who can help you the most. It would be stupid to arrive at that point but is there a depth of stupidity you wouldn't believe of the Trump administration? The consequence is not some distant theoretical legal one, it's an immediate potential cost in lives. States which would most need these measures are the ones which can least afford to piss Trump off. More than that, we can't afford infighting right now.

Also not sure many of you grasp the manpower needed to accomplish this. If you've never driven across the US it's hard to really get.

[Gorsameth]

Did you miss the part where Trump said it was to Provide Medical Assistance, Not for Enforcing Borders or a Quarantine?

The Equipment they use are all mostly paid by the Federal Government, not the States, the States may FUND a mission but the Majority is still paid by the Federal Government.

I missed that he did for 3 states yes. That makes it a fair bit more difficult yes.

[Acidbaron]

Look, man, I'm in Spain, a week or two away from an absolute shitshow if the charts follow Italy's evolution, and yet I'm more horrified of what is going to happen in the US.

Can only imagine those who are see this tragedy coming at them, fully aware knowing their political leadership is either unable or unwilling. Imagine being a caregiver of any kind in the US, getting a big middle finger from the White House because it might mean taking a hit in popularity and listening to others. Thousands are going to die because some people wanted an antagonizer in the white house.

Belgium so far has luckily been spared, but it has only just begun we are in the second week.

[Draco-Onis]

Look, man, I'm in Spain, a week or two away from an absolute shitshow if the charts follow Italy's evolution, and yet I'm more horrified of what is going to happen in the US.

We all are but we don't have the keys to this bus states have to work within the confines of the law until the federal government steps in there isn't a real lock down. While the virus has spread throughout the US 30 states have no lock down order and life for them remains mostly unchanged.

[Mayhem]

Uhm...
It is both possible. Only because our federal governments actually react and close borders (like in Italy's case), that does not say anything about state's rights.
Our states can close their border in case of emergency. So Bavaria could actually do that. On their own. And I bet they would, if the federal response was vastly incompetent.

And states in the US even have MORE power than here. So there really is no excuse to just give up when the federal government fails so badly.


Edit
Just an example:
Schleswig-Holstein closed it's borders yesterday to tourists. All tourists. Even German ones. Only it's citizens are allowed back in and obviously essential things like trucks and stuff. And the STATE government decided that on Tuesday. On their own.
(Before you say, it only closes for tourists, tourists are like 90% of the people that go there )

That's only possible because they are working together with the surrounding provinces and as said it's only about tourism so not closing their borders. I am not sure that states in the US have more power in this regard.

[Poopymonster]

New York will be first state to test treatment of coronavirus with blood from recovered patients

The method dates back more than a century, but it has not been used widely in the United States in decades.

Hoping to stem the toll of the state’s surging coronavirus outbreak, New York health officials plan to begin collecting plasma from people who have recovered and injecting the antibody-rich fluid into patients still fighting the virus.

Gov. Andrew Cuomo announced the plans during a news briefing Monday. The treatment, known as convalescent plasma, dates back centuries and was used during the flu epidemic of 1918 — in an era before modern vaccines and antiviral drugs.

Some experts say the treatment, although somewhat primitive, might be the best hope for combating the coronavirus until more sophisticated therapies can be developed, which could take several months.

Infusions of convalescent plasma were associated with milder symptoms and shorter hospital stays for some patients during the 2002 SARS outbreak, and initial reports from China suggest convalescent plasma might also be effective in dulling the effects of COVID-19, the disease caused by the coronavirus.

New York will begin by offering the treatment only to critically ill patients. But, experts said, once it is proven safe and effective, the treatment will likely work best if given to patients before symptoms become too severe. Casadevall said past studies indicate that proactive infusions of convalescent plasma might also be effective in protecting front-line health care workers from becoming seriously ill.

Similar efforts are underway across the country as hospitals scramble to prepare for an onslaught of critically ill COVID-19 patients, similar to what's happened in New York and Seattle.

Oh, if this works...I can't wait for the "very fine people" to start saying they don't want blood from (minority of choice).

[Acidbaron]

But herein lies the problem, it's not about forces but also about differences between country and county borders it's about laws as well as points of entry. European countries could relatively easily enact border controls because the points of entry are the same as when there were borders. Counties on the other hand never had them, especially not in the US. That's a vastly different thing and suddenly requires way more manpower than they'd ever needed.

I mean if we look at Italy vs. USA, Italy has 50% more police forces per capita than the US and way less Land to cover.

What makes it all the more important that the information coming from the top is calming, correct and there to create union. CNN and MSNBC have already declared they'll cut out his parts because they are simply lies that can be dangerous.

I do wonder those who now believe Trump and are made to distrust everyone else, the media, the opposition. Once they can no longer believe the conman in charge.

[Gaidax]

Current (4 hours off) statistic locally:

Cases: 2495
Dead: 5
Serious: 41
Recovered: 66
Tests done yesterday: 5100

There is a report of potential 6th death, still not confirmed.

[shadowmouse]

@Rozz has the squabble about borders gone on long enough for *another* reminder that there is a politics sub forum for flaming each other over politics? It is overwhelming any actual mention of the virus. :P

Guys, you aren't doing anything except slanging each other and none of you are going to move an inch.

[Zaktar]

@Rozz has the squabble about borders gone on long enough for *another* reminder that there is a politics sub forum for flaming each other over politics? It is overwhelming any actual mention of the virus. :P

Guys, you aren't doing anything except slanging each other and none of you are going to move an inch.

The conversation about borders is specifically relevant to the subject and has involved some meat along the way. The "ur country sucks and is hit hard" "no urs" back and forths however have been tedious and pointless.

[Fargus]

Could someone who knows a thing or two about virology/microbiology expand on this?

Following the severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus (SARS-CoV) and Middle East respiratory syndrome coronavirus (MERS-CoV), another highly pathogenic coronavirus named SARS-CoV-2 (previously known as 2019-nCoV) emerged in December 2019 in Wuhan, China, and rapidly spreads around the world. This virus shares highly homological sequence with SARS-CoV, and causes acute, highly lethal pneumonia coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) with clinical symptoms similar to those reported for SARS-CoV and MERS-CoV. The most characteristic symptom of patients with COVID-19 is respiratory distress, and most of the patients admitted to the intensive care could not breathe spontaneously. Additionally, some patients with COVID-19 also showed neurologic signs, such as headache, nausea, and vomiting. Increasing evidence shows that coronaviruses are not always confined to the respiratory tract and that they may also invade the central nervous system inducing neurological diseases. The infection of SARS-CoV has been reported in the brains from both patients and experimental animals, where the brainstem was heavily infected. Furthermore, some coronaviruses have been demonstrated able to spread via a synapse-connected route to the medullary cardiorespiratory center from the mechanoreceptors and chemoreceptors in the lung and lower respiratory airways. Considering the high similarity between SARS-CoV and SARS-CoV2, it remains to make clear whether the potential invasion of SARS-CoV2 is partially responsible for the acute respiratory failure of patients with COVID-19. Awareness of this may have a guiding significance for the prevention and treatment of the SARS-CoV-2-induced respiratory failure.

[Ghostpanther]

@Rozz has the squabble about borders gone on long enough for *another* reminder that there is a politics sub forum for flaming each other over politics? It is overwhelming any actual mention of the virus. :P

Guys, you aren't doing anything except slanging each other and none of you are going to move an inch.

I agree. Some will not miss a chance to slam Trump or his supporters. This is very clear it is happening in this thread.

On a positive note, Spectrum is offering it's customers who do not have it, free Showtime and Epix for 3 weeks. Starting today and thru April 19th. They said it is to help customers who are stuck at home, to give them more to watch.

Walmart is reserving Tuesday mornings from 6 am - 7 am, shopping only for those 60 and older. I think more companies should be doing this and should also offer more crib-side services.

[Gaidax]

6th death confirmed, 91 years old. Additionally 45 years old is critical and might not make it in following hours, he was already on full life support starting yesterday, but he got even worse today.