1. #16881
    Quote Originally Posted by kaelleria View Post
    No... I don't believe her allegations. There are too many things that don't add up.

    She could have come forward this when she came out last year with a different allegation.
    She could have gone to a legitimate news source rather than breaking this on Soundcloud.
    She could have not created a brand new twitter account and ignored not tweeted positive things about Biden on her old account...

    If an organization picks this up and verifies any of the accusers information I will change my opinion of these. As it stands I find them to be BULLSHIT
    You know you sound like Trump supporters right?

  2. #16882
    Quote Originally Posted by Tulsi2024 View Post
    Lmao Biden Boys are saying that her sexual assault allegation has no merit because she doesn’t believe in Russiagate. Are Democrats now saying that it’s ok to dismiss a sexual assault allegation if the accuser has different political opinions than you? Imagine if Trumpists said that a sexual assault allegation is nonsense because the woman doesn’t believe in the Clinton Body Count.

    These Biden Boys are so sycophantic. They’ll do anything to defend their dear leader. If/when Biden loses the election, don’t be surprised if a lot of these people immediately start acting like they always thought that Biden was a very flawed candidate
    Same revisionist history they used with Hilary.

  3. #16883
    Titan Lenonis's Avatar
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    Guess what. EVEN if these accusations are true...still better than Trump. Cause if we are going to move to the "believe all women" stance then Trump has big issues.

    Unfortunately we seem to be in an era where any politician is going to have to deal with allegations of sexual misconduct. They should be investigated and if true be prosecuted. But I also think we need to realize the era we live in where these things may not be what they appear to be and some level of skepticism needs to be in place. Not that they are even remotely credible but you had those two clowns...I can't remember their names...Jack something and the 20something year old mess literally paying people to make up allegations against Warren, Buttegig, and whoever else. We can't get to a point where a mere accusation with no evidence is immediately disqualifying. Cause then no one will hold office for anything ever again.
    Forum badass alert:
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    It's called resistance / rebellion.
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    Also, one day the tables might turn.

  4. #16884
    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    You don't know a damn thing about me, and I don't need your justification.
    Sure I do... I know you haven't given a shit about anything related to MeToo or TimesUp or sexual assault on this forum until this latest accusation came up.

  5. #16885
    Titan Lenonis's Avatar
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    First, your article starts with "trim social security" and the post I responded to was "big gutting and privitization".

    Second, the article affirms my point -- the party wasn't willing to go along with it.

    I'm not going to normalize hysterical rhetoric that is clearly nonsense. Is there a chance Biden may propose trimming, alterations or other small changes to so-called entitlement programs? Sure. Will Biden propose a mass gutting of them? No.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    He already advocated for it in the past
    Please show where he advocated for a massive gutting of social security or a complete privatization.
    Forum badass alert:
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    It's called resistance / rebellion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    Also, one day the tables might turn.

  6. #16886
    Quote Originally Posted by Lenonis View Post
    Guess what. EVEN if these accusations are true...still better than Trump. Cause if we are going to move to the "believe all women" stance then Trump has big issues.

    Unfortunately we seem to be in an era where any politician is going to have to deal with allegations of sexual misconduct. They should be investigated and if true be prosecuted. But I also think we need to realize the era we live in where these things may not be what they appear to be and some level of skepticism needs to be in place. Not that they are even remotely credible but you had those two clowns...I can't remember their names...Jack something and the 20something year old mess literally paying people to make up allegations against Warren, Buttegig, and whoever else. We can't get to a point where a mere accusation with no evidence is immediately disqualifying. Cause then no one will hold office for anything ever again.
    Your stance I partially agree with that it should be investigated before anything else but it's better than Trump is a pretty freaking low bar.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lenonis View Post
    First, your article starts with "trim social security" and the post I responded to was "big gutting and privitization".

    Second, the article affirms my point -- the party wasn't willing to go along with it.

    I'm not going to normalize hysterical rhetoric that is clearly nonsense. Is there a chance Biden may propose trimming, alterations or other small changes to so-called entitlement programs? Sure. Will Biden propose a mass gutting of them? No.
    But you forget Biden is more conservative than Obama so who knows how far he will go but it is on the table given his past votes and what he advocated for.

  7. #16887
    Titan Lenonis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    Your stance I partially agree with that it should be investigated before anything else but it's better than Trump is a pretty freaking low bar.
    No argument here but that's how two party elections work.

    But you forget Biden is more conservative than Obama so who knows how far he will go but it is on the table given his past votes and what he advocated for.
    C'mon. You know Biden as the leader of the democratic party isn't going to put this on the table. Not in the way it was framed. I'm not going to accept this sort of blatant rejection of how political reality works.
    Forum badass alert:
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    It's called resistance / rebellion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    Also, one day the tables might turn.

  8. #16888
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    Your stance I partially agree with that it should be investigated before anything else but it's better than Trump is a pretty freaking low bar.
    Much like other cases that popped up, I'm not really even sure exactly what people mean when they say hearsay from decades ago should be investigated. Short of someone producing surprising physical evidence, what's the plan? Just ask a bunch of people, "hey, you ever see those two together and did he seem rapey?" or what? In most of the examples, no one much denies that the two people were together at some point and no one much knows what happened behind closed doors, so it's basically just relying on people's intuition about something they half remember from decades earlier.

  9. #16889
    Quote Originally Posted by Lenonis View Post
    No argument here but that's how two party elections work.

    C'mon. You know Biden as the leader of the democratic party isn't going to put this on the table. Not in the way it was framed. I'm not going to accept this sort of blatant rejection of how political reality works.
    But his record is real let's not pretend otherwise. If it is part of what he sees as something greater he would do it like any "moderate".

    This is the guy who sings the praises of working with Lindsey Graham and segregationists for the greater good.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Much like other cases that popped up, I'm not really even sure exactly what people mean when they say hearsay from decades ago should be investigated. Short of someone producing surprising physical evidence, what's the plan? Just ask a bunch of people, "hey, you ever see those two together and did he seem rapey?" or what? In most of the examples, no one much denies that the two people were together at some point and no one much knows what happened behind closed doors, so it's basically just relying on people's intuition about something they half remember from decades earlier.
    This is not the first sexual assault case in history there are procedures to confirm her story. Also if true it's highly unlikely she is the only one.

  10. #16890
    Sore loser brigade still grasping for a life line, I see?

    Bernie is not going to be the nominee, and Coronavirus dooms much of the non-healthcare related progressive agenda.

    Seriously, move on.

  11. #16891
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    Sore loser brigade still grasping for a life line, I see?

    Bernie is not going to be the nominee, and Coronavirus dooms much of the non-healthcare related progressive agenda.

    Seriously, move on.
    Lol, yes, Universal Healthcare is somehow not a solution to a bad privatized healthcare system in Skroeland. That is money that is better spent blowing up the Middle East or avenging Hillary Clinton with a good minor genocide against the Ruskies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  12. #16892
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaelleria View Post
    No... unfortunately he hired Beto's former campaign manager, who happens to dislike Pete and his former team. We'll see how this plays out in a few months.

    It seems Pete is creating a PAC to help out downballot democrats and promote democratic reforms.
    Well, that's a good choice. As long as they all work together on different pieces for the overall good of wining back the White House and flipping the Senate.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    Actually no he is not last I checked his campaign was trying to figure out the technology that would allow him to stream.

    He also seem to be sticking with the Hillary strategy hide from the press. Maybe it will work who knows perhaps I just have 2016 PTSD. I honestly want him to be aggressive and show leadership seems like the strategy is to keep Biden in the shadows and have the SuperPacs do the fighting.
    Biden has hired a new campaign manager. And he released a terrific statement a couple weeks ago that was exceedingly Presidential. If he tried to campaign heavily now, it might backfire.

  13. #16893
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    Sore loser brigade still grasping for a life line, I see?

    Bernie is not going to be the nominee, and Coronavirus dooms much of the non-healthcare related progressive agenda.

    Seriously, move on.
    I know that I was in the trenches on this yesterday, mixing it up with the...peeps. But yeah, I look back now and it's ridiculous to continue these conversations.

    Right now I'm of the thought that Biden shouldn't really be out there doing much of campaigning. Trump is his own worst enemy, and he's doing a bang up job of it, as usual. Biden put out that response a few weeks ago, that was spot on Presidential, and clearly outlined what he would do as President.

    I feel like if Biden gets out there now, he'll just either be blamed for "politicizing" the pandemic (which is already is, but that's beside the point) or help Trump by giving him something else to attack.

    I think hunkering down and getting his campaign staff organized to come out blazing is best. That and putting that CA tv spot everywhere.

  14. #16894
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Right now I'm of the thought that Biden shouldn't really be out there doing much of campaigning.
    Maybe not campaigning in the traditional sense, but he can't be invisible right now. He should be periodically coming out with relatively apolitical statements about the crisis and reassuring people as best he can. Even better if he can discuss options people have, for example going through what was passed in the relief package and how it would impact people individually.

    Just attacking Trump would be tone deaf -- and he can leave that to the PACs and Bloomberg right now anyway. Disappearing while this blows over is also tone deaf.
    Forum badass alert:
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    It's called resistance / rebellion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    Also, one day the tables might turn.

  15. #16895
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lenonis View Post
    Maybe not campaigning in the traditional sense, but he can't be invisible right now. He should be periodically coming out with relatively apolitical statements about the crisis and reassuring people as best he can. Even better if he can discuss options people have, for example going through what was passed in the relief package and how it would impact people individually.

    Just attacking Trump would be tone deaf -- and he can leave that to the PACs and Bloomberg right now anyway. Disappearing while this blows over is also tone deaf.
    That might work - come out with statements about following medical guidelines for social distances and staying inside. Being "Presidential" - and repeating what the head doctor has said.

    And yeah, the relief package. Hmmmm...good idea.

  16. #16896
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    I know that I was in the trenches on this yesterday, mixing it up with the...peeps. But yeah, I look back now and it's ridiculous to continue these conversations.

    Right now I'm of the thought that Biden shouldn't really be out there doing much of campaigning. Trump is his own worst enemy, and he's doing a bang up job of it, as usual. Biden put out that response a few weeks ago, that was spot on Presidential, and clearly outlined what he would do as President.

    I feel like if Biden gets out there now, he'll just either be blamed for "politicizing" the pandemic (which is already is, but that's beside the point) or help Trump by giving him something else to attack.

    I think hunkering down and getting his campaign staff organized to come out blazing is best. That and putting that CA tv spot everywhere.
    The best thing to do is just deny the Bernie Deadenders oxygen.

    Fact is, world events have basically made them obsolete.

    Good article on this:

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...lution/608680/

    The Coronavirus Killed the Revolution
    Sanders, Warren, and others wanted to remake American politics, but the pandemic radically scaled back what’s possible.

    MARCH 25, 2020

    There was a before and an after. Before the seriousness of the pandemic set in, Democrats—and Americans more generally—were divided on whether the moment required deep, structural change. Perhaps it required something less ambitious: a return to normalcy, to the quiet comforts of calm and stability. In that theory, represented by former Vice President Joe Biden, Donald Trump was at once the problem and an aberration in the American story’s broader sweep. This wasn’t a time for radical moves. There was only a need for removing Trump from the presidency. And once he was gone, the country would regain its footing, and we could return to our insistent, if somewhat boring and stubbornly incremental, path to progress.

    The “structuralists,” represented by Senators Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren, had a very different reading. They argued that Trump wasn’t the problem or the cause. Rather, he was the symptom of long-standing inequities and injustices in the economic and political system. The way to handle Trump was to address the structures that made someone like him possible in the first place. This was why Biden seemed, to skeptics such as myself and to the American left more generally, a weak candidate, but more important a weak would-be president. He seemed completely unsuited for any deeper reckoning with where we had ended up and why. Why should we merely return to normal, if normal is what gave us Trump? Normal wasn’t good enough.

    Then the virus came. The sense of possibility that came with a supposedly radical candidate seems today like an artifact of another world—one we no longer live in. Even before the social distancing, self-quarantines, and lockdowns, the perpetual crisis that characterized Trump’s governing style had already produced starkly different reactions among Democrats. This is what crisis does: It can make people demand revolution, or it can make them long for stability. A significant number of voters—in particular African Americans—found in Joe Biden welcome reassurance, and they saw him as the safest bet to remove their most proximate sense of threat. That longing for safety and security has now been magnified for many more Americans. (As Ross Douthat of The New York Times recently wrote, the pandemic will alter our memory of the Democratic primary. As history will remember it, many years from now, Sanders will have lost agency, having been “vanquished by an act of God”).

    One can take only so much crisis before the desire for vaguely normal lives and vaguely competent leaders takes hold. We should have realized how lucky we were to work from an office (working from home is overrated), to go out with friends to a favorite restaurant, to be among the people we cared about, and to be reassured that our leaders, however flawed, had our best interests at heart. Deprived of those things, the baseline of expectations could only change, at least in the short run.

    I, for one, have changed. I am more willing to accept “mere” normalcy today than I was just a month ago. Some of this has to do with the idiosyncrasies of individual personalities and how each of us copes with crisis. I’m too tired and too afraid to believe in the promise of politics right now. What I do feel, instead, is the smallness of politics. Some of the biggest controversies of recent years seem almost silly in retrospect—and certainly in comparison. “Ultimately, Brexit is not a matter of life or death, literally or economically,” Tom McTague recently wrote in The Atlantic. Indeed, more of Britain’s wealth and savings have been wiped out in a month than Brexit might have erased in a year (or five). Meanwhile, the Trump impeachment trial is all but forgotten. The killing in January of the Iranian military commander Qassem Soleimani brought with it the unfounded panic of impending regional war, or worse. And, technically, the Democratic primary is still going on, but it has receded to a faint background murmur.


    To be struck by the relative irrelevance of political and ideological combat—however much I otherwise enjoy it—is to be tempted to retreat into the personal and private. In a state of semi-isolation, I want to read more, cook more, meditate more, pray more, and think more. For those who believed in Bernie Sanders and how he might have otherwise changed American politics, there is also mourning, which can bring a perverse pleasure, feeding what the writer Sam Adler-Bell calls a “bitterly hopeful disposition.” He writes, “Conditioned by history to expect defeat—to see it as inevitable, the product of malevolent forces beyond our control—we welcome its arrival with something like relief.”

    The left-wing retort of “don’t mourn, organize!” at least attempts to take the melancholy of defeat and make it into something productive and affirming. But, today, the option of organizing isn’t as readily available, not just in physical terms but in psychological ones. It is harder to build something new when you feel suspended in time and place, waiting for the after of a pandemic to arrive.

    So, then, what happens whenever after comes? Since an event like this hasn’t happened before in our lifetimes, the speculation is wild, and it covers an overwhelming range of possibilities. The left-wing hope is that the pandemic will demonstrate the need for national and universal healthcare. Some on the right see the crisis as further fueling distrust of institutions, authorities, and elites, redounding as it often does to the benefit of populists. For nationalists, the virus offers up a reminder of the virtues of hunkering down, fearing foreigners and travel, and railing against globalization and the intertwining supply chains that sustain it. In a piece titled “We’re All Orbán Now,” referring to the controversial Hungarian prime minister, National Review’s Rich Lowry writes, “This crisis is bringing home that, when push comes to shove, everyone believes in borders.” Meanwhile, a corner of the anti-globalization right believes that this is the right moment, finally, to resuscitate the idea of autarky, or economic self-sufficiency.

    Related to this is the question of whether the mounting deaths from the virus will bring us together or tear us apart. Which “authentic” version of ourselves will it reveal—the selfish or the sacrificing? The history of pandemics isn’t encouraging. As the author Ben Judah pointed out on Twitter, “The Black Death led to a terrifying spike in antisemitism and pogroms with Jews being accused of poisoning the wells, being immune, or having bought down the wrath of heaven.” In A Journal of the Plague Year, Daniel Defoe writes of the plague descending on London in the 17th century: “But, alas! This was a time when every one’s private safety lay so near them that they had no room to pity the distresses of others; for every one had death, as it were, at his door.” More recently, during the Spanish-flu pandemic of 1918–20, more than 650,000 Americans died, yet, as the New York Times columnist David Brooks notes, “When it was over, people didn’t talk about it. There were very few books or plays written about it … Perhaps it’s because people didn’t like who they had become.”

    Who will we become?

    Western democracies—including the United States—are fundamentally different from what they were a century ago. They are more democratic, and we as citizens are more equal. We are less siloed and more aware of what other regions and communities are dealing with. In relative terms, we have better social safety nets and stronger, more interventionist states than those that had to contend with the Spanish flu. If the death tolls were higher, resembling the literal apocalypse, these anchors would likely begin to collapse, forcing citizens to prioritize survival of themselves and their loved ones, the collective be damned. But short of that, it means that the safety of the individual depends on the safety of the community—and ultimately the nation.

    In Game of Thrones, the character Beric Dondarrion grandiosely intoned, “Death is the enemy. The first enemy and the last.” Americans will be looking for an enemy, so this sentiment might prove appropriate. If the sheer scope of the threat—akin to a war or a foreign invasion—creates a collective sense of fear and anxiety and urgency, then the partisanship and ideological divisions that previously defined who we were (and who we weren’t) will be blunted to some degree. For example, if it means saving our economy and preventing the collapse of health-care infrastructure, then Republicans, whatever their ideological premises, will do things they otherwise wouldn’t do—such as the sort of aggressive economic stimulus normally associated with the left or something that sounds a lot like universal basic income. They already are. For the left, though, this is less a victory than a co-optation. And knowing what we know about wartime—and real threats, rather than imagined ones—more voters may be willing to rally around the flag and give Trump the benefit of the doubt.

    As the journalist Ezra Klein, in the pre-coronavirus age, lamented and feared, external threats are often what unify Americans. If Americans come together, as I pray we will, we will need to understand that, yes, our government made mistakes. Trump’s initial handling of the virus was a master class in incompetence and deflection, and voters will have the opportunity to punish him at the ballot box. But one’s view of Trump is no longer the primary dividing line in our politics.

    If a pandemic is akin to a war, then nationalism and the solidarity that national feeling brings could prove to be positive by-products. If we are under attack, it’s only natural that we would feel more strongly about who we are. This is an ideological, rather than an ethnic, “nationalism.” There is still the risk that these sentiments, particularly in the hands of xenophobes, will turn darker. If that happens, the rest of us will need to stay vigilant and resist the temptations of misdirected anger.

    For now, though, we can take solace that the enemy is not one another. Other Americans are no longer the threat, and, in fact, they never were. Those are the smaller divides of American politics. We will have the ability to return to them in due time, and perhaps that will be part of the normalcy we are already craving. For now, though, it is worth remembering the concentric circles of attachment and allegiance that are the most important: family, friends, community, and, perhaps less fashionable, the nation. In what for many of us may be the closest thing we ever experience to a war zone, these are the things I—and I hope we—hold dear.
    While single payer healthcare may very well be the long-term policy program that comes out of this, it really is unlikely that the more social engineering aspects of the progressive agenda ever come to pass. More public transport and ending car culture, more people in cities and less in suburban and rural areas, more communal-social activity and less individualism are all casualties of this.

  17. #16897
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    This is not the first sexual assault case in history there are procedures to confirm her story. Also if true it's highly unlikely she is the only one.
    This seems pretty fuzzy - which procedure would confirm a story about a putative encounter from a few decades ago?

  18. #16898
    Glad i peaked back into this thread just in time to see a victim of sexual assault called a liar. A lot of the people denying it using the same logic Trump supporters did when he got accused I see.

  19. #16899
    Quote Originally Posted by bmjclark View Post
    Glad i peaked back into this thread just in time to see a victim of sexual assault called a liar. A lot of the people denying it using the same logic Trump supporters did when he got accused I see.
    You're applying circular logic - people aren't looking at a victim of sexual assault and calling her a liar, they're saying that there's no good way for anyone decades later to determine whether she's a victim or liar. I guess you could go with the "believe all women" trope and assume that 100% of accusers are truthful, but not that many people are really buying that as an axiom.
    Last edited by Spectral; 2020-03-26 at 07:38 PM. Reason: fixed the first sentence

  20. #16900
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmjclark View Post
    Glad i peaked back into this thread just in time to see a victim of sexual assault called a liar. A lot of the people denying it using the same logic Trump supporters did when he got accused I see.
    This thread has people pointing out that the Pelosi, Shumer wing of the party just gave away trillions to Mnuchin, allowing a handful of corporate titans consolidate huge parts of economy while leaving everyone else to die on the vine, hell even Sanders put out the meekest shit, and Warren did jack. This Democratic Party, the "Resistance" just passed a massive bailout and let Trump have a free hand to give out money to a lot of already rich people.

    Biden, besides having some kind of dementia likely "grabb'd 'em by the pussy" but that's all a Russian hoax now. Also Intersectional Reaganomics is now Progressive, totally.

    Oh, and ummmm the collapse of the Health Care system and 3 million unemployed and us unironically having an elite class saying a few million dead is fine to keep the economy going is apparently NOT the time to discuss how a Universal Health Care plan and social welfare would actually fix this shit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

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