"All eyes shall be opened." Do not allow yours to be closed..

[Soon-TM]

As usual, the "I've got no defense so I call my opposition a fanboy" defense shows up.

You can dig through my history if you feel like it, but I've never defended Sylvanas. I thought she was forced on us and hoped she met her end this expansion let alone having her continue on into any more content.

But yeah, I'm a fanboy.

I wouldn't answer to Varodoc anymore. Anyone not adhering to his/her havily biased pro-Alliance stance is a "Sylvanas fanboi", so there's no point arguing with him/her.

Infracted.

[Dellis0991]

"While the Light can only conceive of one true path, the Void sees endless possibilities. Strategically, the Old Gods always have plans within plans, waiting for one door to close so another can open. To believe there can only be a single outcome to the struggle against N'Zoth would be to ignore the lessons he was trying to teach us."


"Only I can save you from what is to come"

So what do you think is to come?

The void isn't the only one with plans. The deal the light made with death (Calia), Yrel and her lightbound crusade.

[Akibaboy]

All the arguing in this thread about WoW's story. Here's the reality: Warcraft has always been kinda dumb. They always made the characters and settings they wanted to make as action figures and set pieces and made a story line after. Warcraft 1 was the result of them retooling their existing assets because they couldn't get the rights to Warhammer. At the series' absolute best its been the equivalent of comic book quality writing. For example, 3 was one of the better entries story wise... and that game did legendary levels of comic book hand waves to introduce the Undead faction and still have them tied into the main story via demons, etc. even though the logic and plot of that from the Legion's perspective made zero sense.

And you know what? That's all absolutely fine! Tossing all your favorite action figures on a weird battlefield and making things go boom is fun. Warcraft has never been more than that, for a moment... and that hasn't stopped it from being a platform for good games, great art, amazing soundtracks, a shitty movie, and the list goes on. There is the occasional moment where a tertiary novel that Blizzard hands off to a career writer is compelling but that's in addition to what Warcraft fundamentally is, not the foundation of it.

That said, N'Zoth is basically saying he's seen some shit and you'd freak too if you knew. Expect 'meh' reveals of who the bad guy really was the whole time and then get back to playing magical smackdown and dress up.

[Doffen]

N'zoth fight stops at 3%, and he appearently dies(or does he?) But why 3%? My theory(and I feel silly for even saying this) but we haven't seen anything from Shadowlands yet after blizzcon. Could it be that they encrypt the alpha builds for this long because it can spoil something from the story we experience during this patch, and they want to wait until it's "over" like it is too soon to reveal this?

Reason for me saying I am silly is because blizzard haven't really been good at these things, especially not in BfA.

"Wait for 8.3, we see his plan!"
"No, it's going to be shown in mythic only phase that he just plays with us"
"Okay guys, in Shadowlands, we will know then, 100%"
"Mhm, in 11.0 Void Lords expansion, we will definetely know what he meant by all this then!"

[Varodoc]

I wouldn't answer to Varodoc anymore. Anyone not adhering to his/her havily biased pro-Alliance stance is a "Sylvanas fanboi", so there's no point arguing with him/her.

Considering how you blocked me for a joke I made that flew over your head, doubt that.

[SardaukarMikhail]

Please keep the discussion to the topic of the thread. If N'zoth is not finished, under what terms would we see him again and where would the story lead?

[Alanar]

He would appear with a dragonball z cameo and.. oo wait.

[rogueMatthias]

Not happening. They set up Kerrigan's redemption 5 years before that happened, by literally stating in-universe that she was the only hope for salvation. Meanwhile with Sylvanas they have proved again and again in the story that she is completely twisted and crazy..

Sylvanas isn't twisted and crazy. She's just playing 5D chess with everybody.

Promise you now, even her burning Teldrassil was for "the greater good" because she needed the souls to get power to defeat the jailer to save everyones souls or some such bullshit.

- - - Updated - - -

The void isn't the only one with plans. The deal the light made with death (Calia), Yrel and her lightbound crusade.

Yeah I always liked the idea that the Void and Light were like Babylon5 Shadows and Vorlons (if anyone remembers them). There's no real good or bad - They're fighting an ancient battle and everyone else is just cannon fodder to them.

[Varodoc]

Sylvanas isn't twisted and crazy. She's just playing 5D chess with everybody.

Promise you now, even her burning Teldrassil was for "the greater good" because she needed the souls to get power to defeat the jailer to save everyones souls or some such bullshit.

- - - Updated - - -



Yeah I always liked the idea that the Void and Light were like Babylon5 Shadows and Vorlons (if anyone remembers them). There's no real good or bad - They're fighting an ancient battle and everyone else is just cannon fodder to them.

I still don't know why you people claim we don't know what her goals are.

They literally said she burned Teldrassil so that she and the Jailer could grow stronger. We know she wants that power because she wants everyone to serve Death.

We're way past the point when we didn't precisely know what Sylvanas' plan entailed.

[Dellis0991]

Sylvanas isn't twisted and crazy. She's just playing 5D chess with everybody.

Promise you now, even her burning Teldrassil was for "the greater good" because she needed the souls to get power to defeat the jailer to save everyones souls or some such bullshit.

- - - Updated - - -



Yeah I always liked the idea that the Void and Light were like Babylon5 Shadows and Vorlons (if anyone remembers them). There's no real good or bad - They're fighting an ancient battle and everyone else is just cannon fodder to them.

^This is what I expected ever since the scarlet crusade was doing their thing.

[Feanoro]

Yeah I always liked the idea that the Void and Light were like Babylon5 Shadows and Vorlons (if anyone remembers them). There's no real good or bad - They're fighting an ancient battle and everyone else is just cannon fodder to them.

Yes, please see the Eternal Conflict in Diablo, and since WoW is well along the way to being World of Diablocraft, why not mutate the story as well?

[Eurhetemec]

I still don't know why you people claim we don't know what her goals are.

They literally said she burned Teldrassil so that she and the Jailer could grow stronger. We know she wants that power because she wants everyone to serve Death.

We're way past the point when we didn't precisely know what Sylvanas' plan entailed.

Yup. Posts like the one Matthias is making always seem to me like those doomsday cults when doomsday comes, and goes, with no doom, and they're desperately insisting "Yes, it's still going to happen, only in May, not January!" or "Ok May passed but it'll still happen, just in three years!" and so on.

The point has passed. Blizzard have told us what Sylvanas motivations are. Blizzard have made sure she has been characterized as a despicable villain by the end of the war campaign and in all the CGI. Not like "someone with a 5D plan", but just like a villain who has been thwarted and is really angry about it. She leaves saying not "You guys just don't get me maaaaaan...", but rather "The Horde is NOTHING!". But people made these "5D chess" predictions literally years ago now. Yes, they're clearly wrong, but to drop them, they'd have to admit that they were wrong, and say "Yeah, okay, Blizzard are going a different way...", and they can't do that.

I fully expect that when SL comes, and Sylvanas is clearly a baddie, and is either killed or made into some kind of "eternal servant/guardian" (like imprisoned/chained to whatever she is guarding, very different from the entire voluntary behaviour of Illidan), these people will keep insisting that she'll be back "later in the expansion" (as that will likely happen in 9.1 or 9.2), and then when we're in 10.0, they'll probably either have quietly dropped it and hoped no-one remembers, or be saying "Guys expect Sylvanas back as a goodie at any moment! It's clearly the plan!".

[Varodoc]

It was obvious she was a full-blown villain we'd have to fight in the future since Three Sisters to be honest. This shit is the exact same thing Arthas said in Halls of Reflection:


But then you're right, people would have to acknowledge that their nice little theories about Sylvanas secretly orchestrating the salvation of the cosmos are completely wrong, and people are too prideful to admit that.

And, oh, the absolute best is people claiming that she'll save the cosmos because the Void Lords are afraid of her. Because obviously the uber gods of evil are afraid of a random elf on some planet out there and totally weren't just trying to mess with Alleria's mind.

[Verdugo]

*snip*

It should be a banable offense to post images from that comic, the artstlye can cause permanent brain damage you inconsiderate prick.

Infracted.

[Alanar]

It should be a banable offense to post images from that comic, the artstlye can cause permanent brain damage you inconsiderate prick.

Hahha I agree, the art style is the worst.

[SardaukarMikhail]

Do you think that the Jailer may actuly be jailing something for worse and more powerful than himself in the Maw? That could be what N'Zoth is referring to when he says "Only I can save you from what is to come"

[Varodoc]

Some people focus too much on these throwaway lines. N'Zoth said that because he was trying to mess with our minds, to twist us into thinking that Magni and co. were actually the villains. N'Zoth might have been freed but he still used his cheap manipulation skills to put ally against ally, the same thing he had done with Neltharion. There is no deeper meaning.

As for the Jailer, he is no doubt imprisoning souls that might be much stronger than him. The beings chained in the Maw are the absolute worst scum in the cosmos, they are so evil that they are kept in that shithole so that they'd otherwise just threaten the balance of the Shadowlands. I'm thinking maybe people like Archimonde and Kil'jaeden could be in the Maw and giving a lot of trouble to the Jailer.

[Aucald]

As for the Jailer, he is no doubt imprisoning souls that might be much stronger than him. The beings chained in the Maw are the absolute worst scum in the cosmos, they are so evil that they are kept in that shithole so that they'd otherwise just threaten the balance of the Shadowlands. I'm thinking maybe people like Archimonde and Kil'jaeden could be in the Maw and giving a lot of trouble to the Jailer.

Demons don't appear to go to the Shadowlands on death, their essence returns to the Twisting Nether (their plane of origin) and they are reformed slowly over time. Slaying a demon within the Nether basically winks their souls out of existence, insofar as we know - or disrupts the regeneration process and causes their essence to sublimate back into the Nether.

This could of course change with Shadowlands to some degree, and we do know the Nathrezim specifically have some unspecified connection to the Shadowlands - but as of yet, there's no evidence we'll encounter slain demonic beings there.

[thunterman]

I dont think you understand what I said.
Short explanation: they gave us the anwser people like you want. They screwed up is the real thing imo. Idk what you are on about Nya lotha is an actual realm not a vision. Ra den also died.. I think you are out of the loop here.


Alleria, thrall etc is sonething completely differnt, those are visions lmao, dont be foolish.

But you can think what ever you want.
Moving on.

Just to put it out there, the guys completely right. Ny'alotha doesn't exist in the "real" physical universe. It was destroyed thousands of years ago, along with the Black Empire. The entire Ny'alotha raid is a vision, same as the vision of SW / Org. N'zoth isn't dead, we haven't even fought him yet. When a zone is invaded, and the Black Empire appears everywhere, it is comming from the portal to Ny'alotha, which, is more of a mirror demension, as is the Emerald Dream / Shadowlands. Just like how the old gateways to the Emerald Dream have grass growing from them e.t.c (Dragons of nightmare in Vanilla) It's the same concept.

Master manipulator for a reason, he want's us to think he's dead. His chance of making his "visions" reality are greater if we think he's dead, No?

[Varodoc]

Just to put it out there, the guys completely right. Ny'alotha doesn't exist in the "real" physical universe. It was destroyed thousands of years ago, along with the Black Empire. The entire Ny'alotha raid is a vision, same as the vision of SW / Org. N'zoth isn't dead, we haven't even fought him yet. When a zone is invaded, and the Black Empire appears everywhere, it is comming from the portal to Ny'alotha, which, is more of a mirror demension, as is the Emerald Dream / Shadowlands. Just like how the old gateways to the Emerald Dream have grass growing from them e.t.c (Dragons of nightmare in Vanilla) It's the same concept.

Master manipulator for a reason, he want's us to think he's dead. His chance of making his "visions" reality are greater if we think he's dead, No?

Surely he has enough armies and power to conquer the world by military strength (especially after the devastation of the Fourth War). Why is N'Zoth doing all of this 9000iq manipulation shenanigans involving visions instead of just unleashing his armies on Alliance and Horde? Heck, what's stopping him from opening those portals in the middle of Stormwind and Orgrimmar? Why is he focusing only on Uldum and the Vale? I'd say his chances of making his visions become real would be far greater if he just used his armies to conquer the world.

That's my problem with this whole "It was just a vision" theory. It doesn't make N'Zoth look smarter, it makes him look more retarded.