PSA: Temp / Perma Bans for Trading Malefic Cores in Visions.

[Ielenia]

There were at least two sentences. You are objectively wrong, here.

A single sentence, repeated twice. Doesn't change the fact you ignored everything written after them.

It's an opinion. It can't be wrong.

And this is where you're wrong. On both accounts.

People that traded cores did follow the in-game rules.

That is not a "in-game rule". That is a broken mechanic.

Cannot be wrong on an opinion.

Yes, you can.

It is unclear whether it was unintended or not, based on conflicting messages from Blizzard.

It was crystal-clear that it was unintended. Because Blizzard spelled out: "you can use ONE when at cap, and up to TWO when catching up. There was absolutely zero "conflicting messages".

You are wrong. There are lots of cases of first offense bans.

There are people claiming they did nothing wrong, or their first offense, at best. Blizzard does not ban on first offense.

I am not being unreasonable. We disagree on expectations of players. Requiring people do out-of-game research to resist a ban is going to far.

It's not "going too far". It's the game's own website where the developers post news and announcements about the game. It is not too much to expect people to read it. The game even has a button that takes you straight to their site.

If the game says that something cannot be done, but it is programmed to be done, then yes, that is an obvious bug.

Blizzard says it should not be done. You find out that the game allows you to do what Blizzard said should not happen. That is an obvious bug.

I don't see how any of these statements purport that Blizzard intentionally programs glitches and bugs. Please, enlighten me in a new post.

They show how you treat bugs and glitches as "intended design".

Blizzard bans on first offenses.

Except they don't, as they've already explained they monitor accounts that they find to be suspicious before taking action.

[Jonnusthegreat]

A single sentence, repeated twice. Doesn't change the fact you ignored everything written after them.


And this is where you're wrong. On both accounts.


That is not a "in-game rule". That is a broken mechanic.


Yes, you can.


It was crystal-clear that it was unintended. Because Blizzard spelled out: "you can use ONE when at cap, and up to TWO when catching up. There was absolutely zero "conflicting messages".


There are people claiming they did nothing wrong, or their first offense, at best. Blizzard does not ban on first offense.


It's not "going too far". It's the game's own website where the developers post news and announcements about the game. It is not too much to expect people to read it. The game even has a button that takes you straight to their site.


Blizzard says it should not be done. You find out that the game allows you to do what Blizzard said should not happen. That is an obvious bug.


They show how you treat bugs and glitches as "intended design".


Except they don't, as they've already explained they monitor accounts that they find to be suspicious before taking action.

Alright bub, after reading the first two quotes you made, it's clear that this discussion isn't going anywhere. I chose to not read the rest. It's time to move on.

[TheRevenantHero]

I did not ignore everything you wrote. I countered each point. Most of which you responded with "you're dumb." It's not looking good for you.

I would agree that specific rules overrule general rules. Great point. I would also say that in-game rules overrule forum rules. This is where we disagree.

Being informed beyond the scope of the game is a good thing to do. But to require it as protection from being banned is where it goes too far.

I don't consider following game mechanics cheating. This is where we disagree.

Based on previous point, this is not relevant anymore.

This is not true. Blizzard does ban on first offenses of using game mechanics if Blizzard deems it bannable. As creators of the game, this is their right. My opinion is that this is stupid.

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As I have said at least three times in the thread already, I don't think it's reasonable to expect players to know which programmed mechanics are bugs and which are not bugs.

I don't think they intentionally program glitches and bugs. I do think that if Blizzard messes up, it should not be the players who are responsible for Blizzard's mistake.

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Again, opinions cannot be wrong. You can disagree, but I cannot be wrong. Error in code happens. The ToS states this, yes. It is not very clearly a bug. There is conflicting information in regards to what is allowable with the Malefic Cores. This is where my opinion is different from the rules in place. Imagine having the opinion that slavery is wrong in the USA in 1860 and being berated for your opinion. This is what you are doing. You are berating an individual for having an opinion that conflicts with the rules in place. How embarrassing.

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The source of the game? Great, the game told me that I could trade it! Glad I won't get banned for doing what the game told me I could do!

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This is why exploiting should never have bans as a repercussion.

LOL DID YOU REALLY JUST COMPARE THIS TO DISAGREEING WITH SLAVERY?! Holy hell. Opinions absolutely can be wrong. Your opinion is a prime example of a WRONG opinion. If a player discovers a bug that allows them to do something they shouldn't and stop doing it, they're fine. People who notice they can do something they were NEVER ABLE TO DO BEFORE and keep doing it? They eat the ban hammer and deserve it. These are facts and not opinions.

[rhorle]

It's not flip-flopping. You aren't comprehending correctly what I'm saying. Some beliefs are based on opinion. That does not mean that opinions and beliefs are the same thing. Doctors go to college. That doesn't mean that everyone that went to college is a doctor. It's simply a logical error you're making.

Opinions are declarative statements based on beliefs. You can not have one with out the other. Of course everyone who went to college is not a doctor because there are multiple degrees. Just as not everything in the game is exploitative. You are the one that keeps making simple logical errors. Because declarative statements, which is what opinions are, can be both subjective and true or false. You are saying that they can only be subjective because some are. You are employing the very logical error you tried to apply to me.

Also drawing a line at nothing is against the rules is still drawing the line at something. And of course your line is arbitrary because you are not defining an exploit as anything. You are just saying an exploit is impossible to exist because nothing is an exploit and everything is allowed to be done if it can be done. This also isn't an instance of a grey area with the EULA.

"cheats; i.e. methods not expressly authorized by Blizzard, influencing and/or facilitating the gameplay, including exploits of any in-game bugs, and thereby granting you and/or any other user an advantage over other players not using such methods;" https://www.blizzard.com/en-us/legal...ense-agreement

Using this method to gain more cores then one person is normally able to gain in a week is an exploit. There is no gray area. It is not subjective on if it is or is not against the rules.

[sam86]

The bank has to compensate you if they mess up and accidentally put extra money in your bank account? Your job compensates you when you find a flaw in their time clock software that results in you getting extra time without working that extra time? That's what this is more akin to

they sure at least don't dare to ban me for their f8ck ups, and my job force me to work extra these days with zero payment since i exist in egypt, a country that until recently held title the WORST country on earth
So even in ur example, if bank put money by mistake, i withdraw it, they can only force me to return it, but they can't ban my account or stop any action i do (but it will be wise if they are caution)
Blizz flat out punish u for their f8ck up, big difference

[WintersLegion]

they sure at least don't dare to ban me for their f8ck ups, and my job force me to work extra these days with zero payment since i exist in egypt, a country that until recently held title the WORST country on earth
So even in ur example, if bank put money by mistake, i withdraw it, they can only force me to return it, but they can't ban my account or stop any action i do (but it will be wise if they are caution)
Blizz flat out punish u for their f8ck up, big difference

You sure about that?

Banks are urged by federal law enforcement agencies and regulators to close questionable accounts -- or else risk getting hit with penalties. So they often end up shutting accounts even when a customer isn't doing anything explicitly illegal.

If a customer is merely involved in an industry considered high risk or engaged in an unpopular or "unsavory" line of work, a bank may deem it safer to cut off the relationship, according to Robert Rowe, senior counsel at the American Bankers Association, which represents the nation's largest banks.

https://money.cnn.com/2014/05/07/pf/...count-closing/

[themaster24]

they sure at least don't dare to ban me for their f8ck ups, and my job force me to work extra these days with zero payment since i exist in egypt, a country that until recently held title the WORST country on earth
So even in ur example, if bank put money by mistake, i withdraw it, they can only force me to return it, but they can't ban my account or stop any action i do (but it will be wise if they are caution)
Blizz flat out punish u for their f8ck up, big difference

If you found a flaw in your banks system that allowed you to abuse it in such a way that you could credit your account with more money than, they would not only make you repay the stolen money, they would like close your account and would press charges (this is the same line you're trying to make with WoW/Blizz). Most places of work, if you did the kind of thing I'm talking about, would like make you repay what you got in extra pay (if it was enough to be troublesome) and reprimand you in whatever way that company does. Just because the company didn't make you come work extra hours doesn't mean you aren't getting punished. Notice how on both of these cases, you not only lost your original benefit, but face further consequences?

[sam86]

You sure about that?



https://money.cnn.com/2014/05/07/pf/...count-closing/

... what that has to do with the example i was talking about?
If one day u go withdraw from bank, u find for example twice ur salary in it (let it be 6k egp), u withdraw all of them, the bank is allowed to force u to return the extra 3k, but they have no right to ban my account for their f8ck up of putting twice my salary
This is same example in game, just instead of twice make it 3 times, u already get a reward, using teammate give u 3 more times, so why would u act like it is ur fault or even consider it illegal in first place?
The example u giving is flat out cheating, like logging to wow and hack the game to fly, of course they are allowed to ban u, not log to game, find they give u 5k gold

[Sativex]

... but they have no right to ban my account for their f8ck up of putting twice my salary

Banks can close your account whenever they want.

https://www.wikihow.com/React-if-You...s-Your-Account
https://money.cnn.com/2014/05/07/pf/...count-closing/

*Country laws may vary

[sam86]

If you found a flaw in your banks system that allowed you to abuse it in such a way that you could credit your account with more money than, they would not only make you repay the stolen money, they would like close your account and would press charges (this is the same line you're trying to make with WoW/Blizz). Most places of work, if you did the kind of thing I'm talking about, would like make you repay what you got in extra pay (if it was enough to be troublesome) and reprimand you in whatever way that company does. Just because the company didn't make you come work extra hours doesn't mean you aren't getting punished. Notice how on both of these cases, you not only lost your original benefit, but face further consequences?

that literally didn't happen in old work i had
in older work a mistake was done by someone in database, and a guy get extra payment when he was taking salary, next month they deduce that amount, he make a big legal problem and he win in end because when he took the money last month the company did NOT tell him it was mistake or wrong, it was their system that did give him money, hence why they have no right to deduce that amount in next month, not his fault, but the financial department, yeah his college is f8cked and probably get fired, but he himself isn't
He didn't cheat, he didn't use any extra influence, he went to take his salary, found it almost double in bonus, leave, next month they wanted money back, he use his legal right, win, end of story (also that way he probably ended his future in that company either, but that's a different story)
Blizz gave u the right to trade items in party, it is a reward for teamplay, only for later to be an 'illegal' act that deserves ban? wtf? if anyone f8cked up it is them, did they say in any official source that it is illegal to trade that item? If yes they are right to ban, if not they just wake up one day ban ppl, it is wrong to ban, that simple
They can of course (and it is their right) to remove any reward from that mistake, but to ban u for their mistake now that is crossing line, they f8ck up and they punish u? What exactly isn't punishable then?

I remember the bonus xp potion that stacked then they banned ppl, it had nothing in its description it doesn't stack, yet it was bugged and ppl could stack it to ridiculous degree, then ban hammer fell random on ppl for nothing, some ppl got banned for using it just once (the right way), others were gloating they lvled to max and didn't get a ban, blizz history of 'ban punish' is recorded for being sh8t, they rarely ban the right ppl for right action
Why ban here and not ban ppl who abused the Tool of the Trade bug and made enough potions for end of history? At least this bug doesn't lead to insane unfair wealth ppl got fro tool of trade bug, just a boost in gear that will last very short anyway since this is last patch

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Banks can close your account whenever they want.

https://www.wikihow.com/React-if-You...s-Your-Account
https://money.cnn.com/2014/05/07/pf/...count-closing/
Country laws may vary

i did read the cnn article and nothing in it says that if bank make a mistake in my account, they can close it
And according to ur article they can't terminate a legal right account that obeys law, they have to have reason to terminate it or else the bank is f8cked up when u sue them for stopping ur legally approved documented work, u have to be first in highly risk job and not have explanation for your actions on that account
Here it is blizz action that is f8cked up not urs, if bank give u key access to a vault that has 5 diamonds and tell u that u can take whatever u want in that vault (and all that is recorded and proved) and they forget it has 5 diamonds then u take them, literally no one can make u at fault
If the bank tell u clearly to not take the 5 diamonds but u can do whatever u want (watch paint dry or whatever) and u take them, they have the right to not just ban u but also sue u for ur clearly breaking agreement

The agreement between us and blizz is we pay, we play what they offer, we aren't allowed to cheat
This trade didn't use any extra tool to cheat, it used what the game provided to them, in a way that doesn't even seem to be a bug (did they even say it is a bug btw?), then ban hit without u even knowing why

And I assure u if blizz think they are right by law they would take u to course and sue u, as they literally did in diablo before (check activision history with suing players, even EA didn't do that as far i know)

[huth]

The source of the game? Great, the game told me that I could trade it! Glad I won't get banned for doing what the game told me I could do!

And then get banned for being a smartass. You know full well what was meant.

Real world laws work the same way, by the way. They have to be made publically available, but they don't have to be announced to you, specificially. Not knowing the law is no defense against it.

[Sweetdeal]

My friend has ~ 10 cores traded and not banned, I guess they dont give a real fuck. Mostly only to people who did this 20+times

[themaster24]

that literally didn't happen in old work i had
in older work a mistake was done by someone in database, and a guy get extra payment when he was taking salary, next month they deduce that amount, he make a big legal problem and he win in end because when he took the money last month the company did NOT tell him it was mistake or wrong, it was their system that did give him money, hence why they have no right to deduce that amount in next month, not his fault, but the financial department, yeah his college is f8cked and probably get fired, but he himself isn't
He didn't cheat, he didn't use any extra influence, he went to take his salary, found it almost double in bonus, leave, next month they wanted money back, he use his legal right, win, end of story (also that way he probably ended his future in that company either, but that's a different story)
Blizz gave u the right to trade items in party, it is a reward for teamplay, only for later to be an 'illegal' act that deserves ban? wtf? if anyone f8cked up it is them, did they say in any official source that it is illegal to trade that item? If yes they are right to ban, if not they just wake up one day ban ppl, it is wrong to ban, that simple
They can of course (and it is their right) to remove any reward from that mistake, but to ban u for their mistake now that is crossing line, they f8ck up and they punish u? What exactly isn't punishable then?

I remember the bonus xp potion that stacked then they banned ppl, it had nothing in its description it doesn't stack, yet it was bugged and ppl could stack it to ridiculous degree, then ban hammer fell random on ppl for nothing, some ppl got banned for using it just once (the right way), others were gloating they lvled to max and didn't get a ban, blizz history of 'ban punish' is recorded for being sh8t, they rarely ban the right ppl for right action
Why ban here and not ban ppl who abused the Tool of the Trade bug and made enough potions for end of history? At least this bug doesn't lead to insane unfair wealth ppl got fro tool of trade bug, just a boost in gear that will last very short anyway since this is last patch

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i did read the cnn article and nothing in it says that if bank make a mistake in my account, they can close it
And according to ur article they can't terminate a legal right account that obeys law, they have to have reason to terminate it or else the bank is f8cked up when u sue them for stopping ur legally approved documented work, u have to be first in highly risk job and not have explanation for your actions on that account
Here it is blizz action that is f8cked up not urs, if bank give u key access to a vault that has 5 diamonds and tell u that u can take whatever u want in that vault (and all that is recorded and proved) and they forget it has 5 diamonds then u take them, literally no one can make u at fault
If the bank tell u clearly to not take the 5 diamonds but u can do whatever u want (watch paint dry or whatever) and u take them, they have the right to not just ban u but also sue u for ur clearly breaking agreement

The agreement between us and blizz is we pay, we play what they offer, we aren't allowed to cheat
This trade didn't use any extra tool to cheat, it used what the game provided to them, in a way that doesn't even seem to be a bug (did they even say it is a bug btw?), then ban hit without u even knowing why

And I assure u if blizz think they are right by law they would take u to course and sue u, as they literally did in diablo before (check activision history with suing players, even EA didn't do that as far i know)

For your first assertion, I would like to see proof of that. If there was a lawsuit, especially over something like that, it likely would have made headlines. I don't know how it works in Egypt, but in the US, a court would side with the company in almost every case. The employee knew full well that his pay is a certain amount. Seeing you were given double that amount, you would know it was a mistake. When the company reaches out to correct the issue, it is the employer's right to reclaim those wages.

Furthermore, what we are discussing isn't Blizzard accidentally giving someone two drops of an item. We're talking about someone who found a flaw in the system and abused it, which is why my example was that of an employee who found a way to manipulate their companies system to make it pay them more than it should. They are worlds apart.

Follow this to your next argument about a bank closing your account. You keep repeating this line "if they mess up", but the scenario under discussion presumes that you took advantage of that mistake. That's what makes it the issue. If the bank accidentally gives you some money, they aren't going to close your account. But if you find a flaw in their system that you take advantage of to try and get extra money, they will not only close your account, but they will press charges against you. On top of what the previous poster said, yes, a bank (in most countries) can just close your account at will, for whatever reason the deem fit.

You try and compare the situation to a bank giving you a key to a vault, and telling you that you can take whatever you want. That's still not even remotely close to anything in WoW. You expressly agree when playing wow that you will not abuse bugs or flaws in the system. Blizzard doesn't tell you "Hey, you can do whatever you want in WoW....oops, but not that". There are clear guidelines that specify restrictions with your access to the game. You don't have to use special cheat tools for you to violate that. Excess griefing doesn't require any tools, and it too is punishable.

Lastly, Blizz do have the legal right here. It is their game that you are playing, and their rules you agreed to. You can argue that it's unfair, that it doesn't work like that in some other country, or you don't agree with their interpretation, but they have the final word on the matter.

[Jonnusthegreat]

LOL DID YOU REALLY JUST COMPARE THIS TO DISAGREEING WITH SLAVERY?! Holy hell. Opinions absolutely can be wrong. Your opinion is a prime example of a WRONG opinion. If a player discovers a bug that allows them to do something they shouldn't and stop doing it, they're fine. People who notice they can do something they were NEVER ABLE TO DO BEFORE and keep doing it? They eat the ban hammer and deserve it. These are facts and not opinions.

Comparing it to an opinion that you most likely agree with is a very good way to show you how your argument falls when the tables are turned. My opinion is clearly not popular in this thread. This is what happens - majority opinions oppress minority opinions. That does not make them "wrong." Yes, they deserve the ban hammer, because that is Blizzard's stance on banning players. It's not mine. My opinion is not wrong. It is counter to the authority's.

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Opinions are declarative statements based on beliefs. You can not have one with out the other. Of course everyone who went to college is not a doctor because there are multiple degrees. Just as not everything in the game is exploitative. You are the one that keeps making simple logical errors. Because declarative statements, which is what opinions are, can be both subjective and true or false. You are saying that they can only be subjective because some are. You are employing the very logical error you tried to apply to me.

Also drawing a line at nothing is against the rules is still drawing the line at something. And of course your line is arbitrary because you are not defining an exploit as anything. You are just saying an exploit is impossible to exist because nothing is an exploit and everything is allowed to be done if it can be done. This also isn't an instance of a grey area with the EULA.

"cheats; i.e. methods not expressly authorized by Blizzard, influencing and/or facilitating the gameplay, including exploits of any in-game bugs, and thereby granting you and/or any other user an advantage over other players not using such methods;" https://www.blizzard.com/en-us/legal...ense-agreement

Using this method to gain more cores then one person is normally able to gain in a week is an exploit. There is no gray area. It is not subjective on if it is or is not against the rules.

A statement of an opinion can be wrong, but the opinion cannot be wrong. If I say "I think red is the best color," that is a false statement, because I don't think that. An opinion and statement are two different things.

My opinion is against this - my opinion is this does NOT constitute as a "cheat."

We are not arguing whether or not Blizzard CAN ban these players. We are arguing whether they SHOULD. You agree with the tos/eula. I don't. We disagree. I am not wrong. You are not wrong. I am not right. You are not right. These are our opinions.

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And then get banned for being a smartass. You know full well what was meant.

Real world laws work the same way, by the way. They have to be made publically available, but they don't have to be announced to you, specificially. Not knowing the law is no defense against it.

Yes, but if a police officer sends me a letter, using official means, saying that I can park my car in front of the fire extinguisher in front of my house, you can safely bet that if I do there will be ZERO legal repercussions. Conflicting messages mean the person is not at fault - the writer of the messages is at fault.

It's obviously not a good situation to be in, and the goal is to continue moving forward for both parties - but this is not a case of where punitive measures should take place since the authority is at fault.

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My friend has ~ 10 cores traded and not banned, I guess they dont give a real fuck. Mostly only to people who did this 20+times

Did she apply them or are they just sitting in her bags? It's probably just easier for Blizz to search for total corruption resistance than how many cores someone has in bags.

[rhorle]

A statement of an opinion can be wrong, but the opinion cannot be wrong. If I say "I think red is the best color," that is a false statement, because I don't think that. An opinion and statement are two different things.

Then it isn't your opinion if you don't think that. A statement of an opinion is still just an opinion. There are subjective opinions that are based on things like taste. "Sushi is awesome" and "Sushi is gross" neither is wrong because they are based on subjective things. But there are opinions that are based around verifiably true and false statements like "Apples are oranges". You can have the opinion that apples are oranges but it is a wrong opinion.

You are not wrong for having an opinion but your opinion can be wrong. Of course Blizzard should ban the players because they violated the rules. And of course you agree with the EULA because every player agrees to it whether they like them or not. So it is a moot discussion.

Also if I am not wrong then why have you spent several pages and posts telling me that I am wrong at several points? Why are you even wasting time discussing something that no one can be right or wrong at? What is your goal, to troll? To be disruptive?

[Jonnusthegreat]

Then it isn't your opinion if you don't think that. A statement of an opinion is still just an opinion. There are subjective opinions that are based on things like taste. "Sushi is awesome" and "Sushi is gross" neither is wrong because they are based on subjective things. But there are opinions that are based around verifiably true and false statements like "Apples are oranges". You can have the opinion that apples are oranges but it is a wrong opinion.

You are not wrong for having an opinion but your opinion can be wrong. Of course Blizzard should ban the players because they violated the rules. And of course you agree with the EULA because every player agrees to it whether they like them or not. So it is a moot discussion.

Also if I am not wrong then why have you spent several pages and posts telling me that I am wrong at several points? Why are you even wasting time discussing something that no one can be right or wrong at? What is your goal, to troll? To be disruptive?

"Apples are oranges" is not an opinion. It is a statement (based on a belief, not opinion). It is wrong. "Apples should be the same as oranges" is an opinion that cannot be proven wrong.

Players don't have to agree with the message behind the EULA, they just agree to the terms of the EULA. Saying every player agrees with the EULA is like saying every American agrees with what President Trump says. Just because you allow something, doesn't mean you agree with it.

The only thing you've been wrong at is saying that my opinion is wrong. Because opinions can't be wrong. My goal is to defend myself and educate others.

[rhorle]

"Apples are oranges" is not an opinion. It is a statement (based on a belief, not opinion). It is wrong. "Apples should be the same as oranges" is an opinion that cannot be proven wrong.

Opinions are statements based on a belief. You can't have an opinion on something if you don't make a statement about your belief. Because then it wouldn't be your opinion. This is you flip flopping. Beliefs are opinions when you are trying to prove yourself correct but beliefs are not opinions when it proves you incorrect. Also it can be proven wrong that apples should be the same as oranges because of planet genetics and science. They are completely different families so they wouldn't be the same. So congratulations you have a false opinion and it was just proven wrong. But you'll flip flop and move the goal posts to remain right.

You agree to the terms in order to play. You don't have to like it. But you still agree to be bound by those rules. Anyone who breaks those rules should be subject to punishment. The severity of that punishment depends on intent and manner of breaking the rules. But if my opinion is that you opinion is wrong then according to your argument I am right and not wrong. Yet here you are stating I am wrong simply because you have to remain right in whatever you post.

[Jonnusthegreat]

Opinions are statements based on a belief. You can't have an opinion on something if you don't make a statement about your belief. Because then it wouldn't be your opinion. This is you flip flopping. Beliefs are opinions when you are trying to prove yourself correct but beliefs are not opinions when it proves you incorrect. Also it can be proven wrong that apples should be the same as oranges because of planet genetics and science. They are completely different families so they wouldn't be the same. So congratulations you have a false opinion and it was just proven wrong. But you'll flip flop and move the goal posts to remain right.

You agree to the terms in order to play. You don't have to like it. But you still agree to be bound by those rules. Anyone who breaks those rules should be subject to punishment. The severity of that punishment depends on intent and manner of breaking the rules. But if my opinion is that you opinion is wrong then according to your argument I am right and not wrong. Yet here you are stating I am wrong simply because you have to remain right in whatever you post.

Opinions are based on beliefs. Some beliefs can be proven wrong. If the belief can be proven wrong, it cannot be part of an opinion. This is why "Apples are oranges" is not an opinion. It might be your belief, which is incorrect, but the statement does not make an opinion. Therefore, there are no incorrect opinions. "Apples should be oranges" is an opinion based on a belief. This belief cannot be proven wrong. Apples are scientifically different than oranges. That doesn't make the statement "Apples should be oranges" false. Again - they are not the same. But if my opinion is that they SHOULD be the same, that is not incorrect. I don't see how you don't see this.

No - according to my argument, your opinion can never be right. Are you even reading what I am writing? You are only wrong because you are stating that my opinion is wrong - it can't be. Your opinion is not wrong. You are.

[TheRevenantHero]

Comparing it to an opinion that you most likely agree with is a very good way to show you how your argument falls when the tables are turned. My opinion is clearly not popular in this thread. This is what happens - majority opinions oppress minority opinions. That does not make them "wrong." Yes, they deserve the ban hammer, because that is Blizzard's stance on banning players. It's not mine. My opinion is not wrong. It is counter to the authority's.

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A statement of an opinion can be wrong, but the opinion cannot be wrong. If I say "I think red is the best color," that is a false statement, because I don't think that. An opinion and statement are two different things.

My opinion is against this - my opinion is this does NOT constitute as a "cheat."

We are not arguing whether or not Blizzard CAN ban these players. We are arguing whether they SHOULD. You agree with the tos/eula. I don't. We disagree. I am not wrong. You are not wrong. I am not right. You are not right. These are our opinions.

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Yes, but if a police officer sends me a letter, using official means, saying that I can park my car in front of the fire extinguisher in front of my house, you can safely bet that if I do there will be ZERO legal repercussions. Conflicting messages mean the person is not at fault - the writer of the messages is at fault.

It's obviously not a good situation to be in, and the goal is to continue moving forward for both parties - but this is not a case of where punitive measures should take place since the authority is at fault.

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Did she apply them or are they just sitting in her bags? It's probably just easier for Blizz to search for total corruption resistance than how many cores someone has in bags.

Using the phrase "opinions can't be wrong" is both wrong in of itself as well as a logical fallacy. As expressed by multiple people, there are quite a few situations where an opinion can be wrong. This is one of those situations. You are absolutely wrong in your opinion that players shouldn't be punished for exploiting bugs.

[Jonnusthegreat]

Using the phrase "opinions can't be wrong" is both wrong in of itself as well as a logical fallacy. As expressed by multiple people, there are quite a few situations where an opinion can be wrong. This is one of those situations. You are absolutely wrong in your opinion that players shouldn't be punished for exploiting bugs.

This is wrong.