Trump orders GM to make ventilators "GM was wasting time" and action was needed...

[Agent Smith]

Sources:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-l...rs-11585327749

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/27/trum...ction-act.html

https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/...484863f4f03759

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/tru...production-act

https://www.bbc.com/news/52071611

[Low Hanging Fruit]

At least he didn't go golfing for the weekend before deciding to act.

[Machismo]

Is Trump trying to nationalize industry? Well, one more step into outright socialism for so-called conservatives.

[Benggaul]

Not going to mention that GM has said for a long time now that all they're waiting for is Trump's go ahead to start manufacturing? Or that Trump complained about GM not opening their Lordstown plant when, in fact, they had sold that off ages ago (which Trump already knew)?

Trump can go fuck this "GO GO GO" attitude when HE is the reason everything is being delayed.

[Sunseeker]

Bruh... that's communism.

Technically it's authoritarianism.

[Stormdash]

Bruh... that's communism.

There is a great irony in that the most fascist things he's done (since fascism is an economic theory, not a descriptor of mean spiritedness), he's done in no small part as a result of being yelled at to do it by people who routinely have been complaining he's a fascist.

Not going to mention that GM has said for a long time now that all they're waiting for is Trump's go ahead to start manufacturing? Or that Trump complained about GM not opening their Lordstown plant when, in fact, they had sold that off ages ago (which Trump already knew)?

Trump can go fuck this "GO GO GO" attitude when HE is the reason everything is being delayed.

Trump's FDA did not enact the regulations that made it nearly impossible to get testing protocols approved, or actually made declaring a public health emergency actually slow down the process of getting new testing protocols approved. Likely neither did Obama's. It's a cumulative disaster.

Just remember, every useful thing that any level of government - local, state, or federal - has done in the course of meeting this crisis has been an act of waiving, suspending, or removing some rule or regulation that left in place would make responding harder. That should be a lesson, but won't be.

[StayTuned]

Already proven that car manufacturers cannot produce ventilators. There is no point that a company that doesnt know how to produce safe ventilators, produces ventilators. They will just fail and people will die

[Easo]

Already proven that car manufacturers cannot produce ventilators. There is no point that a company that doesnt know how to produce safe ventilators, produces ventilators. They will just fail and people will die

If they can retool by following schematics, they can. Cars are way more complex than ventilators.

[TigTone]

If they can retool by following schematics, they can. Cars are way more complex than ventilators.

I’m sure those robot can be reprogrammed to make Ventilators.

[Rukh]

Already proven that car manufacturers cannot produce ventilators. There is no point that a company that doesnt know how to produce safe ventilators, produces ventilators. They will just fail and people will die

Well, they are partnering with medical companies who do know how to make them. GM is partnering with a company called Ventec. They provide the space, resources and tools. It's still going to be more than a month or so to retool plants. This is something that needed to happen a month ago to be in time.

Ford actually opened communications with GE Healthcare before the Whitehouse got around to this because they assumed it would be coming at some point.

[StayTuned]

If they can retool by following schematics, they can. Cars are way more complex than ventilators.

This is not how this works. First of all, you cannot just change an assembly line to whatever the hell you want.

Medical equipment is also much more heavily regulated and needs to be fail proof. Yes, even more than cars. In Germany, all car manufacturers already tried and said it's probably not a good idea, because they cannot uphold the necessary standards.

Germans build better cars.

- - - Updated - - -

Well, they are partnering with medical companies who do know how to make them. GM is partnering with a company called Ventec. They provide the space, resources and tools. It's still going to be more than a month or so to retool plants. This is something that needed to happen a month ago to be in time.

Ford actually opened communications with GE Healthcare before the Whitehouse got around to this because they assumed it would be coming at some point.

This is an entirely different thing than building whole ventilators. They can provide space, tools, raw materials, they could 3D print parts etc.

[Rukh]

This is not how this works. First of all, you cannot just change an assembly line to whatever the hell you want.

Medical equipment is also much more heavily regulated and needs to be fail proof. Yes, even more than cars. In Germany, all car manufacturers already tried and said it's probably not a good idea, because they cannot uphold the necessary standards.

Germans build better cars.

- - - Updated - - -



This is an entirely different thing than building whole ventilators. They can provide space, tools, raw materials, they could 3D print parts etc.

This is what the plan is however. GE and Ford will be providing machinery, plant space, workers, and the medical companies will be advising and doing whatever they need to do in order for it to work.

[CostinR]

They were apparently asking about a billion dollars and another ridiculous demands before they did it. Trump basically told them to shove it, and keep in mind that he really didn't want to do this.

[Rukh]

They were apparently asking about a billion dollars and another ridiculous demands before they did it. Trump basically told them to shove it, and keep in mind that he really didn't want to do this.

That's actually not that crazy. Ventilators can be upwards of 50k for the ICU type. If he orders 50,000 of them, that's about 2.5 billion dollars. So nevermind the cost of entirely retooling plants, paying for employees, lost opportunity not manufacturing vehicles, the actual production runs with all the other costs figured in for this many may be a billion dollars.

[Draco-Onis]

Trump's FDA did not enact the regulations that made it nearly impossible to get testing protocols approved, or actually made declaring a public health emergency actually slow down the process of getting new testing protocols approved. Likely neither did Obama's. It's a cumulative disaster.

Just remember, every useful thing that any level of government - local, state, or federal - has done in the course of meeting this crisis has been an act of waiving, suspending, or removing some rule or regulation that left in place would make responding harder. That should be a lesson, but won't be.

Are you high? they refused the test from the WHO, they blocked state and local government from using private labs to get testing going, they set standards for performing the tests very high because Trump didn't like the numbers going higher. It's been weeks since they promised a million tests will be performed in 7 days, that's some pretty high level revisionism you are engaging in.

[Skulltaker]

If they can retool by following schematics, they can. Cars are way more complex than ventilators.

Sorry, they are what now? You're aware we're not talking about a fan or intubation, right?

[Easo]

Sorry, they are what now? You're aware we're not talking about a fan or intubation, right?

Yes, I am and yes they are - most complex part is the microprocessor controlling it, rest is basically tubing and air pump. Modern car engines are controlled to the stupid level of control via their own microprocessors. You sure that the ventilator one is more complex? Listen, people, if anyone, then car factories are the best bet to retool what they have for mass production. They have the resources and space to do that, they will have guidance from medical companies together with full technical documentation (I assume that they will... Unless more stupidity happens via, say, patents...). It is not rocket science (almost 40 year old tech), but yes, it will take time.
The only question I have is from where they will get microprocessors for the control of the device, those most likely are purpose-made and cant be replaced at will, even with software provided to the carmakers.

[Skulltaker]

Yes, I am and yes they are - most complex part is the microprocessor controlling it, rest is basically tubing and air pump. Modern car engines are controlled to the stupid level of control via their own microprocessors. You sure that the ventilator one is more complex? Listen, people, if anyone, then car factories are the best bet to retool what they have for mass production. They have the resources and space to do that, they will have guidance from medical companies together with full technical documentation (I assume that they will... Unless more stupidity happens via, say, patents...). It is not rocket science (almost 40 year old tech), but yes, it will take time.
The only question I have is from where they will get microprocessors for the control of the device, those most likely are purpose-made and cant be replaced at will, even with software provided to the carmakers.

And I'm also sure car manufacturers are equipped to fabricate under sterile conditions and are capable of properly sterilizing their product, as well as fine-tuning and testing thinks like the Aerosol-dispensers that modern ventilators come with? Their employees are trained in the proper procedures to fabricate sterile equipment? Because an employee touching some of the tubing can kill a patient. Ensuring their gear isn't polluted by dust and microbes? Just saying.

I'm not saying car manufacturers aren't good engineers, or that their work is easy. But there is a lot more to producing medical gear than just putting it together.

[Ripster42]

Better late than never. At least the delay was only a week this time.

[Easo]

And I'm also sure car manufacturers are equipped to fabricate under sterile conditions and are capable of properly sterilizing their product, as well as fine-tuning and testing thinks like the Aerosol-dispensers that modern ventilators come with? Their employees are trained in the proper procedures to fabricate sterile equipment? Because an employee touching some of the tubing can kill a patient. Just saying.

I'm not saying car manufacturers aren't good engineers, or that their work is easy. But there is a lot more to producing medical gear than just putting it together.

Wasnt all medical gear sterilized before delivery/first use, via radiation (Cobalt-60 and something else)? It kills everything. And I think it is reasonable to assume that they are going for mass production, which means that what they make will be on the simpler side.