Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[Gaidax]

He's right though. You seem to keep ignoring anything that doesn't fit your agenda. Chinese did fuck up, but virus did get out long before anyone knew what was going on.

We don't live in Hollywood movie, where hot babe detects virus in seconds and finds cure after few minutes of mixing something in lab.

We live in reality. In reality new viruses take a while to detect, then figure out how they behave, only then some steps can be taken. This virus doesn't instantly show symptoms and begins infecting other people long before showing any symptoms. Symptoms are similar to flu/cold, so many don't even take it seriously. Virus got out of China long before it was detected. Local authorities did fuck up, but its inconsequential because virus was already spreading far away.

Everything that is happening in west right now is on west, not on China. Many countries are still doing fuck all, US being the biggest offender there. Stupid politicians and stupid people all over the world are not Chinese fault.

Stop living in imaginary Hollywood movie scenario where everything is black and white.

Listen, bud. I totally don't want to open this can of worms now, but CCP knew very well what is going already in December. They already knew it was transmitted human-to-human, they already knew what was brewing in Wuhan.

Their actions? Suppress doctors who voiced this, destroy evidence and force CHO... whoops... WHO to ignore warnings about this from Taiwan back in fucking December.

It took them almost two months to come clear about this and let the world know, out of those 2 months - at the very least, one month already they knew shit was going bad.

[Grapemask]

But if the reports of China actively destroying evidence of human-to-human transmission and severity of the infection are true, and if the reports of them sitting on information weeks longer than they admit, than they are partially responsible for the worlds delayed reaction. For example, if we had known about human-to-human transmission by the time the Chinese government and CDC allegedly knew, we would have had weeks to lock down airports, weeks to prepare hospitals, ramp up supplies, and so on. We probably would still have the pandemic, but we might have already saved hundreds or thousands of lives so far.

We might have started working sooner, but that seems unlikely. The problem is that our response has been terrible. We didn't lock down because a virus appeared. We knew about coronavirus months before lockdowns started. We just didn't care until the numbers became a problem. Even now, here in the US, we still largely do not care. Both my town and my county have given shelter in place orders, but there are only about 10% fewer people out and about in general - and about 50% more people out and about in leisure areas. Because our culture is the problem.

I know everyone wants someone to blame because it makes all of this easier, but at least in America, we're going to have to recognize that most of the blame falls back on us.

[Grapemask]

Listen, bud. I totally don't want to open this can of worms now, but CCP knew very well what is going already in December. They already knew it was transmitted human-to-human, they already knew what was brewing in Wuhan.

Their actions? Suppress doctors who voiced this, destroy evidence and force CHO... whoops... WHO to ignore warnings about this from Taiwan back in fucking December.

It took them almost two months to come clear about this and let the world know, out of those 2 months - at the very least, one month already they knew shit was going bad.

We knew about coronavirus months ago, too. Hell, from what the CDC can tell from our first cases, the US probably already had coronavirus by the time China was becoming more aware of how large of a problem it was. But China knowing it was a Destroyer of Senior Worlds a few weeks ahead of time doesn't explain why we had a media network was convincing 40% of Americans the entire thing was a hoax, or why leaders were telling people they could still go to work, or that they should put the economy before their safety. It doesn't explain why many of the affected countries, or here in the US the affected counties and states, haven't put any orders in place to fight its spread at all. Even if China threw the first punch, now we're sitting here punching ourselves unconscious and cursing China with every hit.

[Acidbaron]

This could have been prevented if we could have enforced quarantine measures on time and were better equipped to deal with this. The latter is fully on our own government unwillingness to invest into this after the first SARS outbreaks from the early '00's.

However a quarantine on any level would have failed as a quarantine is based on correct and trusty worthy information. China would have to have reported it and locked down their own nation, not let as a figure of speech half of china go on holidays all over Europe.

Defending the CCP is a very odd stance to take. It is perfectly possible to call out the unwillingness of some US politicians or western ones and still hold the CCP at its core responsible for letting this spread like a wildfire.

[Mayhem]

But if the reports of China actively destroying evidence of human-to-human transmission and severity of the infection are true, and if the reports of them sitting on information weeks longer than they admit, than they are partially responsible for the worlds delayed reaction. For example, if we had known about human-to-human transmission by the time the Chinese government and CDC allegedly knew, we would have had weeks to lock down airports, weeks to prepare hospitals, ramp up supplies, and so on. We probably would still have the pandemic, but we might have already saved hundreds or thousands of lives so far.

Uhm, Feb 15.
China: 68k cases
Germany: 15 cases

When did Germany start to take this seriously?

Wait I'll help you out.

"Germany has introduced travel restrictions for entries from outside the Schengen area on March 17, 2020. All corresponding entries from non-EU-citizens and citizens of non-Schengen states by plane or ship will be affected. Entry will be possible for German citizens." - Frankfurt Airport.

Sure China has a role in all of this and we should establish some oversight that is not bound by national laws but let's face it, this will never happen.

Each and every country fucked this up, well maybe except South Korea whom the Virus reached first and couldn't get a hold, so go ahead blame the Chinese but don't blame them for the fuckups of our slow and even negligent response.

[Acidbaron]

I'm not defending CCP. They did fuck up.

I'm pointing out that their fuck up is inconsequential to current situation. Chinese fuck up happened several months ago. What we see right now is result of legendary grade fuck ups by western politicians and they are trying to shift blame.

I don't believe Politicians are occupied with that right now as they are dealing with the crisis. There's only one doing that because he cares more about the upcoming US election than anything else.

And i want both to be done, self-reflection and seeing what was done wrong on our end and holding CCP accountable, both canbe done.

[Granyala]

This could have been prevented if we could have enforced quarantine measures on time

But we wouldn't have.
That's the whole goddamn point here.

Are people really so naive as to think that if China told us in December
"Boys, we've go a bug here... nasty... prepare, it's coming your way!"
we'd believed them? That we had acted on that information straight away?

Hell, Italy was basically going under and we (Germany) still carried on as usual. My boss (school principal) said "It's insane, these morons (government) think we're immune just because we're German.". It took another WEEK after that until they closed the schools (Mar 16) and ANOTHER WEEK after that until they decided to really lock down (Mar 23) because "muh economy". Yet if you go out, you still have tons of idiots going about their lives as if nothing was the matter, enjoying the sunshine and their free time.

And then you have "Team America"... reading about them is like watching a caricature movie atm. Insane.

Yes China is to blame for suppressing the information. Absolutely, silencing scientific personnel and obfuscating evidence is a crime and sth. should come out of that behavior as a consequence.
China is not to blame for our incompetence though.

[markos82]

Oh please, I know you are raring to suck commie schlong and all, but guess what - this is not exactly the right moment to do this.

This is not a hill to die on, given the magnitude of Chinese Communist Party failure here.

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What you can do is actually warn the others, instead of trying to destroy evidence and suppress doctors

You bois are surely working double time for your great leader Xi here.

You mean like 3M and Teflon poisoning entire planet and basically getting slapt on the hand? Like 99% of all the living things poisoned by American company...

[Forogil]

I couldn't see that this was reported before.

Iceland tried a mass-test which percentage of the "uninfected" population have the virus (other countries are starting similar trials to test if people have been infected using different methods that are cheaper):
https://grapevine.is/news/2020/03/15...h-coronavirus/

The result was that about 1% were in fact infected - which is about 3k Icelanders - but official reports at that time only had 180 cases, and even now the reports only have about 1k cases (and Iceland hasn't reduced testing drastically as some other countries). If the ratio between actual cases and confirmed cases has stayed constant it would mean that 6% of the population is now infected in Iceland - and Iceland doesn't seem to handle it poorly compared to other European countries.

Of the tested (that weren't previously confirmed) half showed no symptoms, and half had a regular cold.
Of the

[Thepersona]

I couldn't see that this was reported before.

Iceland tried a mass-test which percentage of the "uninfected" population have the virus (other countries are starting similar trials to test if people have been infected using different methods that are cheaper):
https://grapevine.is/news/2020/03/15...h-coronavirus/

The result was that about 1% were in fact infected - which is about 3k Icelanders - but official reports at that time only had 180 cases, and even now the reports only have about 1k cases (and Iceland hasn't reduced testing drastically as some other countries). If the ratio between actual cases and confirmed cases has stayed constant it would mean that 6% of the population is now infected in Iceland - and Iceland doesn't seem to handle it poorly compared to other European countries.

Of the tested (that weren't previously confirmed) half showed no symptoms, and half had a regular cold.
Of the

So this supports my hipothesis, that the CCP virus has the IFR of influenza, but the R0 of mumps?

[Deja Thoris]

I couldn't see that this was reported before.

Iceland tried a mass-test which percentage of the "uninfected" population have the virus (other countries are starting similar trials to test if people have been infected using different methods that are cheaper):
https://grapevine.is/news/2020/03/15...h-coronavirus/

The result was that about 1% were in fact infected - which is about 3k Icelanders - but official reports at that time only had 180 cases, and even now the reports only have about 1k cases (and Iceland hasn't reduced testing drastically as some other countries). If the ratio between actual cases and confirmed cases has stayed constant it would mean that 6% of the population is now infected in Iceland - and Iceland doesn't seem to handle it poorly compared to other European countries.

Of the tested (that weren't previously confirmed) half showed no symptoms, and half had a regular cold.
Of the

"Only have 1k cases". Thats in a country with a population of 364k, in other words it doesn't really even qualify as a medium sized city in world terms.

In terms of infections per million they are at 3k per million. Thats abysmal. For context, its twice as bad as Italy and Spain.

[Forogil]

Uhm, Feb 15.
China: 68k cases
Germany: 15 cases

When did Germany start to take this seriously?

Wait I'll help you out.

"Germany has introduced travel restrictions for entries from outside the Schengen area on March 17, 2020. All corresponding entries from non-EU-citizens and citizens of non-Schengen states by plane or ship will be affected. Entry will be possible for German citizens."

And still that paints Germany in a too positive light.

Where did the cases coming to Germany in March come from?
From China - or from countries within the Schengen area like Italy and Austria?

[markos82]

Whataboutism is never a good argument or defence in any case. China purposely hid this and covered it up causing a global epidemic and economic crisis.

If you want to use an example, you should use Russia and Chernobyl not something as the ME conflict that has many sides to the same coin to begin with and stems from the Cold war era were all "great powers" back then hold a large responsibility in the destabilization of that region.

So yes China should be blamed for this as the CCP did cause this and to this day we still don't know what the actual numbers in China are throwing people and governments off.

But i got a feeling this is more about you having a hardon for america than anything else.

??? America on purpose attacked numerous countries and killed millions.... Everyone has some goal...

And people did, so I don't see the point. And Russia is still lying about the number of casualties.

Wr don't know many things, what your point. We don't know real state in India and North Korea.

No I'm not, but what I despise is blaming someone else while neglecting what "you" did.

[Strangebrew]

Whataboutism is never a good argument or defence in any case. China purposely hid this and covered it up causing a global epidemic and economic crisis.

If you want to use an example, you should use Russia and Chernobyl not something as the ME conflict that has many sides to the same coin to begin with and stems from the Cold war era were all "great powers" back then hold a large responsibility in the destabilization of that region.

So yes China should be blamed for this as the CCP did cause this and to this day we still don't know what the actual numbers in China are throwing people and governments off.

But i got a feeling this is more about you having a hardon for america than anything else.

I want to correct you on one thing, you are correct about China, and they are 100% fucking guaranteed to be hiding numbers right now, there are various statistics on things that shows China is straight up lying about their current numbers.

But all of this was with the help of WHO, who have been jumping and barking at their commands.

https://twitter.com/UyghurInfo/statu...43213647151106
https://twitter.com/wilfredchan/stat...87606569590784

Fuck this "blaming china is racism" bullshit narrative that is going the rounds, fuck china, they deserve to be put on the spotlight for this shitstorm, and so does WHO along with them.

[markos82]

Yeah we can definitely compare Woodrow Wilson spreading the virus during WW1 to Xi Jinping spreading the virus for ... no apparent reason.

Why do you keep comparing the CCP virus to American war time actions? Are you trying to say that the CCP virus is an act of war?

Well Americas war time actions have lasted more than 2 centuries but ok... And if it's lab made then yeah, it could be looked at like a "war" atm more like a economic war.

[Rogue Karl]

More events are coming out that China is indeed not telling the truth about their numbers.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...f-virus-s-toll

Outside one funeral home, trucks shipped in about 2,500 urns on both Wednesday and Thursday, according to Chinese media outlet Caixin. Another picture published by Caixin showed 3,500 urns stacked on the ground inside. It’s unclear how many of the urns had been filled.

According to Chinese government figures, 2,535 people in Wuhan have died of the virus. The announcement that a lockdown in place since January would be lifted came after China said its tally of new cases had hit zero and stepped up diplomatic outreach to other countries hard hit by the virus, sending some of them medical supplies.

So the numbers are not adding up, and there's this:

Tweet link



And there are also reports that show that cellphone users have been dropped by a significant amount over the last three months. So either there's a new trend in China of going "offline" or a large part of these people are no longer alive.

All their actions are being reported on like moving deploying more incinerators, with each passing week more of what China is covering up is coming back to the surface.

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The disease is created by natural evolution no evidence has been found to support any other theory, if you want to believe in crackpot theories go ahead and join that club. I am certain tinfoil unlike toilet paper is not in short supply.

You don't find forbes trust worthy enough and you want something scientific?

Here you go, have at it https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9

No evidence has been found that it is natural... I'm questioning if anyone reads what they post or if they think a article full of theories is evidence now...

[Adam Jensen]

USA still hasnt done a nationwide lockdown though

We're not going to have one because Donny Smallhands wants to keep his precious Wall Street going while blue states suffer for not bowing and scraping to him.

But he'll be quick to get supplies and money to the red states . . .

[Forogil]

"Only have 1k cases". Thats in a country with a population of 364k, in other words it doesn't really even qualify as a medium sized city in world terms.

Yes, but a city with biotech firms that actually can test these things.

In terms of infections per million they are at 3k per million. Thats abysmal. For context, its twice as bad as Italy and Spain.

Completely incorrect in multiple ways and you are completely missing the point.

You are then looking at "confirmed" cases not actual infections per million, and the point is that those numbers are not reliable, as people are not tested enough.

They are not reliable in Iceland that make an effort to test and don't have large number of deaths - and they are likely even less reliable in Italy and Spain. If Italy's numbers were "only" as unreliable as the Icelandic numbers then Italy doesn't have 90k infected but more than a million; if they are even more unreliable (as is likely) we might already be looking at millions infected in Italy.

BTW: 1% infected that is the same as 10k per million.

[unfilteredJW]

No evidence has been found that it is natural... I'm questioning if anyone reads what they post or if they think a article full of theories is evidence now...

I can't roll my eyes hard enough.

[JohnBrown1917]

I can't roll my eyes hard enough.

They are just itching for war, and want to use any excuse. Even made-up ones.