Sylvanas Character Assassination

[Thage]

When your stated goal is to kill all life, you're a villain. It doesn't matter why you're engaging in omnicide, that simply provides rationale for your behavior, not justifies it. Sylvanas has actively been waging war with the intent to kill everyone she comes across since being revived by the val'kyr at Icecrown Citadel. Before then, she was still actively developing a plague equally lethal to the living and undead with full intent to use it as soon as possible. Since the plague was perfected, she's used it liberally, oftentimes choosing to simply plaguebomb a settlement into extinction to save time rather than engage in any other form of warfare.

As far back as Vanilla, the Forsaken were actively engaged in human experimentation to perfect, again, a plague explicitly designed to kill everything it comes in contact with. A plague she had no problem using against civilian populations in Southshore and Gilneas back in Cataclysm, when she was supposedly a "victim." Sylvanas was always Capital E Evil, the only difference is that the writing in BFA overall abandoned nuance and subtlety.

Her character wasn't assassinated, it was pushed into the spotlight and a bright neon sign was put up above her head reading "I KILL SHITLOADS OF PEOPLE FOR COMPLETELY SELFISH REASONS."

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So what? Illidan also did this in BC. He terrorized the whole Outland. But he isn't considered a villain.

The only people who don't see Illidan as a dangerously-unhinged lunatic, especially after Legion gave us quests showing his willingness to kill his allies and throw everyone around him to the wolves for the smallest scraps of power, whose obsession rules him beyond any hope of reason, were his fanboys who furiously beat themselves over "AYE YAM MUH SKARZ!"

[Varodoc]

When your stated goal is to kill all life, you're a villain. It doesn't matter why you're engaging in omnicide, that simply provides rationale for your behavior, not justifies it. Sylvanas has actively been waging war with the intent to kill everyone she comes across since being revived by the val'kyr at Icecrown Citadel. Before then, she was still actively developing a plague equally lethal to the living and undead with full intent to use it as soon as possible. Since the plague was perfected, she's used it liberally, oftentimes choosing to simply plaguebomb a settlement into extinction to save time rather than engage in any other form of warfare.

As far back as Vanilla, the Forsaken were actively engaged in human experimentation to perfect, again, a plague explicitly designed to kill everything it comes in contact with. A plague she had no problem using against civilian populations in Southshore and Gilneas back in Cataclysm, when she was supposedly a "victim." Sylvanas was always Capital E Evil, the only difference is that the writing in BFA overall abandoned nuance and subtlety.

Her character wasn't assassinated, it was pushed into the spotlight and a bright neon sign was put up above her head reading "I KILL SHITLOADS OF PEOPLE FOR COMPLETELY SELFISH REASONS."

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The only people who don't see Illidan as a dangerously-unhinged lunatic, especially after Legion gave us quests showing his willingness to kill his allies and throw everyone around him to the wolves for the smallest scraps of power, whose obsession rules him beyond any hope of reason, were his fanboys who furiously beat themselves over "AYE YAM MUH SKARZ!"

It's not that BfA's writing wasn't subtle enough. I mean, this shit was bound to happen. You can't give all the military power to a psycho and then expect her not to commit genocide. At least before BfA she was just leader of the Forsaken and had to work from the shadows, so she couldn't start any world wars. What happened in BfA was predictable. What was Vol'jin thinking...

[Thage]

It's not that BfA's writing wasn't subtle enough. I mean, this shit was bound to happen. You can't give all the military power to a psycho and then expect her not to commit genocide. At least before BfA she was just leader of the Forsaken and had to work from the shadows, so she couldn't start any world wars. What happened in BfA was predictable. What was Vol'jin thinking...

Vol'jin was convinced the loa were telling him to pick Sylvanas, and since reconnecting with his troll roots in Shadows of the Horde, he's been much more willing to take their advice onboard. Now we know from Vol'jin's questline that he got played, though Sylvanas's reaction to that whole shebang is yet another example of Blizzard obviously shoehorning in things after the matter when they realized putting an omnicidal maniac in charge of a playable faction went over roughly as well as a wet dog fart (her stunned reaction in the Vol'jin death cinematic, as well as her internal monologue in Before the Storm, both suggest alternate motives to her sudden fit of manic lunacy beyond "Gonna kill everyone because dis wurld iz a prisun.").

[Varodoc]

Vol'jin was convinced the loa were telling him to pick Sylvanas, and since reconnecting with his troll roots in Shadows of the Horde, he's been much more willing to take their advice onboard. Now we know from Vol'jin's questline that he got played, though Sylvanas's reaction to that whole shebang is yet another example of Blizzard obviously shoehorning in things after the matter when they realized putting an omnicidal maniac in charge of a playable faction went over roughly as well as a wet dog fart (her stunned reaction in the Vol'jin death cinematic, as well as her internal monologue in Before the Storm, both suggest alternate motives to her sudden fit of manic lunacy beyond "Gonna kill everyone because dis wurld iz a prisun.").

He was convinced, that's the problem. You can listen to the advice of the "almighty spirits" and still reject it. It really didn't take a genius to figure out Sylvanas was the worst candidate for Warchief.

[Yarathir]

They're not done with her yet, we still have a whole expansion to go until her story is (presumably) closed.

Hopefully she just gets Gul'daned in like 9.1.
That'd be swell.

[Thage]

He was convinced, that's the problem. You can listen to the advice of the "almighty spirits" and still reject it. It really didn't take a genius to figure out Sylvanas was the worst candidate for Warchief.

If memory serves, Vol'jin knew it would be a wildly unpopular choice and said as much--he even reminded her that he thought she was a bit of a cunt, even. But whatever whispered to him and convinced him she was the one to pick apparently put the idea that the increased responsibility and transparency would inspire her to be a better person--that it was time for her to leave the shadows and lead the Horde through hard times. And this, I can buy. For everything else he is, Vol'jin is an inherent optimist who wants to believe the best of the Horde. After he lost his cool with Garrosh early in Cataclysm, he reconsidered and reminded himself the Horde is a brotherhood and Garrosh a flash in the pan--a philosophy that paid off in full when the majority of the Horde rallied with him and Baine after they rebelled. So whatever manipulated him knew what angle to take here, and when you're on death's door you're not exactly thinking clearly.

[Soon-TM]

BFA did not change Sylvanas.

Oh yes, it did. Before BfA, she wasn't certainly a nice girl by any means, but she had at least actual motives for all her shadowy, underhanded deeds. BfA turned it into a Saturday morning cartoon villain with that cringey af "war on hope", as well as her new ghostly sugar daddy pulled straight out of Blizzard's rear.

[Maljinwo]

What was Vol'jin thinking...

The loa of marketing was too strong to ignore

[TheRevenantHero]

Are there people that seriously still believe Sylvannas is doing the greater good by killing all of Azeroth? I can't wait to end her in Shadowlands along with her Jailer Master so we can finally close this chapter for good.

She's doing what people like me want her to do. Killing the entirety of Azeroth so this stupid game can end :P

[DemonHunter18]

The only people who don't see Illidan as a dangerously-unhinged lunatic, especially after Legion gave us quests showing his willingness to kill his allies and throw everyone around him to the wolves for the smallest scraps of power, whose obsession rules him beyond any hope of reason, were his fanboys who furiously beat themselves over "AYE YAM MUH SKARZ!"

I think it's more about how Illidan wants to end the biggest threat in the Universe no matter what so we can ally ourselves with him while Sylvanas is just evil.

[Varodoc]

Pretty sure Tyrande, Malfurion, and pretty much anyone else Illidan hurt in the past are still pissed at him. Only Velen and maybe Khadgar forgave him. To the rest of the world, he's still seen as a monster, and even Blizzard does not try to white-wash him. Heck, Xe'ra, the one who was fangirling all over Illidan, dies precisely because of her obsession with him.

If memory serves, Vol'jin knew it would be a wildly unpopular choice and said as much--he even reminded her that he thought she was a bit of a cunt, even. But whatever whispered to him and convinced him she was the one to pick apparently put the idea that the increased responsibility and transparency would inspire her to be a better person--that it was time for her to leave the shadows and lead the Horde through hard times. And this, I can buy. For everything else he is, Vol'jin is an inherent optimist who wants to believe the best of the Horde. After he lost his cool with Garrosh early in Cataclysm, he reconsidered and reminded himself the Horde is a brotherhood and Garrosh a flash in the pan--a philosophy that paid off in full when the majority of the Horde rallied with him and Baine after they rebelled. So whatever manipulated him knew what angle to take here, and when you're on death's door you're not exactly thinking clearly.

His plan didn't work anyway, since Sylvanas continued doing shady things behind everyone's back. It took Saurfang's death for her to finally come out as a psycho who hates the Horde. He was more naive than optimistic. Being in the spotlight more often than not brings the worst out of people. Look what happened to Garrosh once he got promoted to Warchief.

But oh well, now we know that it was the Jailer manipulating Vol'jin to make Sylvanas Warchief.

[matrix123mko]

I don't know exactly when the Alliance killed the Warsong peons, but it was likely justified as the Warsong Clan was known to invade Ashenvale and wage war with the Silverwing Sentinels, even while Thrall was Warschief.

It was not an invasion. Thrall sent them to get some wood. Elves attacked workers.

Stonard was an outpost located near Alliance territory, not a village full of civilians.

An outpost to protect the caravans. Also, there are also civilians, like inkeeper or traders.

Dalaran was not a massacre, Jaina just imprisoned the majority of the Sunreavers (for a very good reason) and killed the ones that resisted.

Jaina also shot fleeing civilians. Silver Covenant attacked unarmed Sunreavers.

When Sargeras stabbed Silithus, the Alliance's response was to send Druids and Priestesses to investigate and possible heal the area, while the Horde only thought of how it could benefit them (surprise, surprise).

Goblins only gathered some new ores that appeared. That was simple scientific research. Just after Malfurion sent his druids, Hamuul Runetotem came with other druids and shamans.

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Stop chopping up nelven ancient forests maybe. It's what invaders usually get because natives want to defend their territory which is totally legit in my book. Also, please don't compare the destruction of Theramore and Teldrassil with the destruction of some mudhuts, please.

If chopping wood in totally empty forest is evil, why does the Alliance have rights to start excavations on tauren territory?

Also, Theramore is nothing more than a couple of mudhuts with blue roofs.

[DemonHunter18]

Pretty sure Tyrande, Malfurion, and pretty much anyone else Illidan hurt in the past are still pissed at him. Only Velen and maybe Khadgar forgave him. To the rest of the world, he's still seen as a monster, and even Blizzard does not try to white-wash him. Heck, Xe'ra, the one who was fangirling all over Illidan, dies precisely because of her obsession with him.

should they even be pissed at him???

he never tried to conquer Azeroth or to destroy it.

the Legion lacked one cutscene where people still viewed him as someone who did bad stuff so they still hated him, especially Night Elves.
it's like we just welcomed him with open arms.

[matrix123mko]

1. "They must have killed children! We don't see it but they had to have!" No.
2." They but the carriages!" After making sure to scare everyone off. Plus the carriages are supply carriages, people don't go in those... Nor do many races stuff their kids in with piles of boxes filled with explosives and weapons.

Do you know that there were no children on Teldrassil? The only night elf child in entire history of the game that happened to be on Teldrassil was a teenager 8 years before War of Thorns. Conclusion: no children died on Teldrassil.

[Varodoc]

should they even be pissed at him???

he never tried to conquer Azeroth or to destroy it.

the Legion lacked one cutscene where people still viewed him as someone who did bad stuff so they still hated him, especially Night Elves.
it's like we just welcomed him with open arms.

Who cares why they're pissed at him, Tyrande at this point is pissed at anyone. I'm just saying that Illidan did not redeem himself in the eyes of anyone but a few people. He will still be known as "The Betrayer", even though without his help Sargeras would've won.

I'm basing this on the quest after Antorus where you bring his memories to Malfurion and Tyrande, who are still cold towards him.

[matrix123mko]

Although that wasn't pointed at me, I'll give a question:
Does that mean they had right and weren't evil for doing such a thing?

If someone raid some place, does that mean other people can experiment on their prey?

Do homeowners have right to experiment on burglars(if they catch them) and they wouldn't be labeled as someone evil?

Well, in American law you can kill all the burglars. I would feel no regret if I tested some things on them. After all, science requires sacrifices.

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but are horde vermin even considered ''people''?

Forsaken are. The rest are inhuman scum, just like night elves.

[Powerogue]

Sylvanas was never a good person and she was presented more as a psychopathic, self-serving crone than anybody remotely benevolent, even to the forsaken.

Get over it already.

I mean I'd argue that the forsaken seemed to have seen her as an almost messianic figure, the hero that rescued them from the Scourge's mind control. They cherished that freedom of mind and built the identity of the forsaken around it, but we never saw Sylvanas actually agree to those same ideals.

We've generally seen Sylvanas through that lens, and brushed her actual actions of mind-raping her own populace under the rug. As far as I'm concerned, all BFA did was pull that from the darkened corridors where she hid it out into the light where the other Horde leaders could be horrified by it.

[FelPlague]

Do you know that there were no children on Teldrassil? The only night elf child in entire history of the game that happened to be on Teldrassil was a teenager 8 years before War of Thorns. Conclusion: no children died on Teldrassil.

They awakened back at the Temple, with Mia kneeling over them and carrying a night elf child. She asked Astarii to hurry and evacuate but, exhausted, she fainted. Mia and the child were subsequently trapped underneath some collapsing rubble, causing Astarii and a night elf mage to try to dig her and the night elf infant out.

At that moment, her husband Genn emerged from the Stormwind portal and rushed to her. Genn managed to dig her out and told Mia she couldn't stay in Darnassus any longer. Genn urged her to escape to the human capital of Stormwind, but a half-conscious and injured Mia told Genn to take the night elf child and leaver her. Genn refused and carried both the night elf child and Mia, determined not to lose either of them. Genn urged Astarii to escape with them, but Astarii and the other priestesses were determined to stay behind and pray for the comfort of those that could not be evacuated. Genn wished for Astarii's goddess to watch over her one last time before Genn, Mia, the Alliance champion, and the night elf child escaped the burning city together.[5][33]

yes, there were children on teldrassil, learn to read the book.

[DemonHunter18]

Who cares why they're pissed at him, Tyrande at this point is pissed at anyone. I'm just saying that Illidan did not redeem himself in the eyes of anyone but a few people. He will still be known as "The Betrayer", even though without his help Sargeras would've won.

I'm basing this on the quest after Antorus where you bring his memories to Malfurion and Tyrande, who are still cold towards him.

oh yeah, sure.

just pointing out the difference between Illidan and Sylvanas.

[Moonrage]

It was not an invasion. Thrall sent them to get some wood. Elves attacked workers.

It is an invasion. The Warsong Outriders invaded Ashenvale and cut down the sacred trees of the Night Elves. It wasn't even Thrall who sent them, it was the Warsong Clan who took initiative, because Thrall knew better not to invade the land of the Night Elves. (source)

An outpost to protect the caravans. Also, there are also civilians, like inkeeper or traders.

It was still located near Alliance Territory, maybe the Horde should've presented it as a village and not as an armed outpost.

Jaina also shot fleeing civilians. Silver Covenant attacked unarmed Sunreavers.

No she didn't, she imprisoned the ones that fled or surrendered. And yeah the Silver Covenant was acting out of line, blame Vereesa.

Goblins only gathered some new ores that appeared. That was simple scientific research. Just after Malfurion sent his druids, Hamuul Runetotem came with other druids and shamans.

The Explorers' League got to the Sword first, and they were attacked by Bilgewater Goblins. The Alliance killed the Goblins in retaliation.

If chopping wood in totally empty forest is evil, why does the Alliance have rights to start excavations on tauren territory?

Also, Theramore is nothing more than a couple of mudhuts with blue roofs.

Theramore was way more than a couple of 'mudhuts'. People here are really condoning atomic bomb droppings.

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Do you know that there were no children on Teldrassil? The only night elf child in entire history of the game that happened to be on Teldrassil was a teenager 8 years before War of Thorns. Conclusion: no children died on Teldrassil.

As already mentioned there was the Night elf baby that barely escaped with Genn and Mia. After the portal to Stormwind closed, a Night elf mother and her young son entered the Temple of Elune. Both of them died in Astarii Starseeker's arms. So yes, there definitely were Night Elf children on Teldrassil.