Cut off the arm to save the body.

[owbu]

Do you think Azerite gear has made the game better? Is it worth all the resources Blizzard have used to create it?

The release version? No that was terrible. The final version? Yes, I think it did. And even if it didn't, it lead to Blizzard getting better at making those systems in the future.

Creating good systems from nothing is incredibly hard. Fixing flawed system is much easier to do. If Blizzard had thrown away every system in it's first iteration, the game would be a terrible mess. Like..not "mmo champion complains about it" bad, but actual catastrophic bad. This can be seen quite easily when looking at how much every xpansion improves over its patch cycle. First iterations are almost always bad and there will always be a guy who will demand their immediate removal.

And while, in hindsight, it's always easy to say "Ha, everyone clearly knew this particular system was not worth saving!", it's a lot harder to make those calls when you are actively developing them. So no. Blizzard should not cut off systems the moment they aren't working. And they should definetely not do it the moment someone pretending to speak for the majority is demanding it. Because if they did that, not feature would ever be made.

[Michael Jackson]

Pretty sure wow still outnumbers both.

FFXIV nor ESO will catch up until they have unfucked the endgame and specially the pvp.

I think Final Fantasy alone had 10 mil the last time it anounced #.

At least they have endgame and PVP, all wow has are broken classes battlegrounds and raids raids raids

[Ghostile]

I think Final Fantasy alone had 10 mil the last time it anounced #.

At least they have endgame and PVP, all wow has are broken classes battlegrounds and raids raids raids

They are announcing accounts created (for whatever reason) and not active subs. If we went with that wow broke 100m in pandria.


Wows PvP at its worst is still miles ahead of ffxivs fucked up server ticks and esos fucked up.. everything.

Not to mention the lack of anything beyond lfr raids

[lockybalboa]

Ion should get the Gamespot Dev of the year award for the fantastic job he's done in propelling WoW into the best MMO in the world.

[Zarithras]

If something doesn't work, then just drop it. Don't spend months trying to save a lost cause only to end up with something which makes the game worse.

Read this: https://autodidacticdesigner.com/201...l-your-babies/

This mantra has a few other forms, like "kill your darlings", but the idea is the same - don't hold onto your ideas simply because they're your's.

While I agree with you fundamentally, I disagree that Blizzard should kill a released feature just because it flops immediately. There are plenty of reasons a feature could flop despite their testing and validation. The primary reason is player behavior differs from their expectation. Players are going to engage with content in ways the developer can't even fathom. This is true across all software industries, by the way. That's why many software devs now operate under an Agile model, where they iterate rapidly and release to customers often.

Unfortunately, while I'm 99.99% sure Blizzard operates as an Agile team, their product cannot be agile. They can't deploy half-baked features. They have to deploy finished content. They have to spend months / years developing a feature or piece of content before it can be released to live WoW, and at that point, they're invested in it. Perhaps the numbers are off with their feature, like raid boss health or mechanic timing. Perhaps one tiny piece makes the whole thing sour, like a poor talent row on a class. Perhaps they simply didn't account for the interaction between X and Y, which screws over the whole feature. No matter the issue, they try to take steps to fix what's broken and present the feature again. This is iteration, and it's good.

The reason I agree with you is that Blizzard shouldn't be releasing these poor features at all. If a feature tests really poorly in alpha, fix or gut that shit. If they properly test a feature internally, on alpha, and on beta, and people love it yet it flops in live WoW, that's one thing. But if they forego alpha and beta testing, or spit in the faces of testers, that's on them. Azerite is an EXCELLENT example of this. They need to devote a lot more time to testing and taking feedback seriously, otherwise they'll keep releasing BfA type expansions.

[Nnyco]

Blizzard need to much more critical when it comes to their own work. If something doesn't work, then just drop it. Don't spend months trying to save a lost cause only to end up with something which makes the game worse. With systems like the Azerite gear which from the beginning clearly didn't work they just need to make a clear cut and remove it from the game instead of using a lot of resources trying to fix something which is already lost. Azerite gear brought much more negatives to the game than positives and adding systems like that is only damaging. Especially when they use extra resources on them. Only a very small minority of players are going to look back at the Azerite gear with any positive feelings. The same thing can be said about the corruption gear. The situations where you feel bad because of the corruption just massively outweighs the times when you feel good. They shouldn't spend time and resources on these systems which just have a overall negative impact on the game. If something clearly doesn't work, they just need to put their proudness aside and cut it from the game. Simple as that.

If your game has fun content people will play it. Don't add negatives to it.

Another armchair developer explaining to us how he can do everythin better.

[munkeyinorbit]

Blizzard need to much more critical when it comes to their own work. If something doesn't work, then just drop it. Don't spend months trying to save a lost cause only to end up with something which makes the game worse. With systems like the Azerite gear which from the beginning clearly didn't work they just need to make a clear cut and remove it from the game instead of using a lot of resources trying to fix something which is already lost. Azerite gear brought much more negatives to the game than positives and adding systems like that is only damaging. Especially when they use extra resources on them. Only a very small minority of players are going to look back at the Azerite gear with any positive feelings. The same thing can be said about the corruption gear. The situations where you feel bad because of the corruption just massively outweighs the times when you feel good. They shouldn't spend time and resources on these systems which just have a overall negative impact on the game. If something clearly doesn't work, they just need to put their proudness aside and cut it from the game. Simple as that.

If your game has fun content people will play it. Don't add negatives to it.

You're wrong about azerite gear. It was fixed.

Corruption gear you might be right about. We will have to see at the end.

[Kaver]

They tried to give players their own customizable tier set. It hasn't turned out perfect, but it is an improvement over tier sets from every point of view (except for the looks, but that is another topic). There is no malicious intent behind their decision.

I would rather they expand and improve on that concept, then going back to tier sets, which had many, many problems, many of them most people seem to leave out.

I don't think there is anything malicious behind it at all. It have just added more negatives than positives to the game due to the large dependency on RNG.

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And why would they remove core components BEFORE launch?

Because it was broken.

[kaminaris]

I don't think there is anything malicious behind it at all. It have just added more negatives than positives to the game due to the large dependency on RNG.

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Because it was broken.

What rng dude? Did you miss the ability to purchase specific one? Or ability to drop specific ones from raid?

[Kaver]

You're wrong about azerite gear. It was fixed.

I find the effects of the azerite gear completely pointless. Most of them is just "increased damage". So we just end up with a pointless system which just adds another layer of RNG to the game.

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What rng dude? Did you miss the ability to purchase specific one? Or ability to drop specific ones from raid?

The Titan Residuum vendor.

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Another armchair developer explaining to us how he can do everythin better.

Not at all. I'm just saying that Blizzard shouldn't spend time on systems which don't add any value to the game and just end up being annoying. You don't have to be a developer to see that.

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Read this: https://autodidacticdesigner.com/201...l-your-babies/

This mantra has a few other forms, like "kill your darlings", but the idea is the same - don't hold onto your ideas simply because they're your's.

While I agree with you fundamentally, I disagree that Blizzard should kill a released feature just because it flops immediately.

The feature should never have been released. They got plenty of feedback before the launch of BFA telling that the system was broken. But Blizzard just chose not to listen to any of it.

[rhorle]

I find the effects of the azerite gear completely pointless. Most of them is just "increased damage". So we just end up with a pointless system which just adds another layer of RNG to the game.

But if it is pointless why does it matter if it adds a layer of RNG or not?

[Kaver]

The release version? No that was terrible. The final version? Yes, I think it did. And even if it didn't, it lead to Blizzard getting better at making those systems in the future.

Creating good systems from nothing is incredibly hard. Fixing flawed system is much easier to do. If Blizzard had thrown away every system in it's first iteration, the game would be a terrible mess. Like..not "mmo champion complains about it" bad, but actual catastrophic bad. This can be seen quite easily when looking at how much every xpansion improves over its patch cycle. First iterations are almost always bad and there will always be a guy who will demand their immediate removal.

And while, in hindsight, it's always easy to say "Ha, everyone clearly knew this particular system was not worth saving!", it's a lot harder to make those calls when you are actively developing them. So no. Blizzard should not cut off systems the moment they aren't working. And they should definetely not do it the moment someone pretending to speak for the majority is demanding it. Because if they did that, not feature would ever be made.

The Azerite system doesn't improve the gameplay of WoW. It adds not value it all. The only thing it does is adding yet another layer of RNG to the game.

[kaminaris]

I find the effects of the azerite gear completely pointless. Most of them is just "increased damage". So we just end up with a pointless system which just adds another layer of RNG to the game.

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The Titan Residuum vendor.

Titan residuum vendor sells SPECIFIC ones too.

[Kaver]

But if it is pointless why does it matter if it adds a layer of RNG or not?

Because it impacts your performance. A system which impacts performance but not gameplay is pointless.

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Titan residuum vendor sells SPECIFIC ones too.

True. But that still doesn't turn the negative into a positve. You have the choice between luck or waiting 10 weeks for 1 piece. Non of those option brings the player any joy. It's just a negative situation no matter what. The game would be better if you didn't have to worry about the system at all.

In when you combine that with the system not adding any positive gameplay impact it just turn the system into a pointless pain.

[rhorle]

The Azerite system doesn't improve the gameplay of WoW. It adds not value it all. The only thing it does is adding yet another layer of RNG to the game.

If it adds no value why to people want it? Don't confuse value with "I don't like it". It impacts game play in minor ways (some specs have bigger synergy). Its RNG is minimal because there are enough sources and limited trait pool that it doesn't take long to get the specific ones you want.

[Kaver]

Was it really? I guess it was mentioned as a feature going into BFA but it's been a minor part of every patch since then. Once they fixed the acquisition problem (which was the biggest annoyance by far imo) it's been pretty much fine and while it's not an amazing feature by any means, I think it's fine for what it is.

The acquisition is still a problem. And it's a pointless problem when the system have no positive gameplay impact.

[rhorle]

Because it impacts your performance. A system which impacts performance but not gameplay is pointless.

So gear is pointless? Because that impacts performance but not game play.

[kaminaris]

Because it impacts your performance. A system which impacts performance but not gameplay is pointless.

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True. But that still doesn't turn the negative into a positve. You have the choice between luck or waiting 10 weeks for 1 piece. Non of those option brings the player any joy. It's just a negative situation no matter what. The game would be better if you didn't have to worry about the system at all.

In when you combine that with the system not adding any positive gameplay impact it just turn the system into a pointless pain.

Question is, can you do math? You do realize tier sets dropped only from raids. Azerite gear ALSO DROPS FROM RAID but has a vendor with 2 options (more actually).
So it is 1 vs 3 ways of obtaining them. Yes it does turn negative into positive.

[Kaver]

If it adds no value why to people want it?

Because you need it to stay competitive. It's pointless because it's only function is increasing numbers. A system which doesn't impact gameplay is a pointless system.

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Question is, can you do math? You do realize tier sets dropped only from raids. Azerite gear ALSO DROPS FROM RAID but has a vendor with 2 options (more actually).
So it is 1 vs 3 ways of obtaining them. Yes it does turn negative into positive.

Why are you mentioning tier sets?

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So gear is pointless? Because that impacts performance but not game play.

A time consuming gear system to develop which adds extra RNG is pointless if it doesn't impact gameplay.

[kaminaris]

Why are you mentioning tier sets?

Because azerite gear is direct replacement of tier sets.