Cut off the arm to save the body.

[StillMcfuu]

That's one mindset I think a lot of people fall into incorrectly. Consider this. We all know Twilight Devastation is straightaway the single strongest AoE corruption. That's not contested. But is it the most dps for the amount of corruption it costs you? Looking at my own sims, for instance, I've found a pattern. Several weaker corruptions add up to being more dps than Twilight Devastation for the same amount of corruption gained. Like right now it's not possible to zero out a max rank Devastation or Stars. But you could zero out your corruption using several smaller pieces for a similar dps gain.

Corruption is a different animal to Azerite, I was strictly speaking about Azerite above.

I like the concept of corruption but I think it has it's own set of problems. Main issues around corruption are on hit damage effects and the corruption mechanic should have came in lieu of secondary stats. I also think there is something to be said of a system where you need to stack 3 effects just to get to the power level of the one effect; namely the rng chance of even getting those items.

[Zarithras]

The feature should never have been released. They got plenty of feedback before the launch of BFA telling that the system was broken. But Blizzard just chose not to listen to any of it.

Yeah I agree with you further in my post. I still disagree that a feature should be flat out removed immediately if it flops, but only if proper internal/alpha/beta testing showed otherwise. Feedback in the BfA alpha/beta was pretty clear, yet we still got some garbage systems. They just started their feedback cycle far too late to do anything meaningful with the feedback.

I really, really, really hope they get SL alpha testing going in the next couple of weeks, and they push back the release date to early 2021. Fuck missing a deadline. It's very important they get SL right, and that will only come from a nice long alpha/beta cycle where they have lots of time to implement feedback.

[Osmeric]

Yeah I agree with you further in my post. I still disagree that a feature should be flat out removed immediately if it flops, but only if proper internal/alpha/beta testing showed otherwise. Feedback in the BfA alpha/beta was pretty clear, yet we still got some garbage systems. They just started their feedback cycle far too late to do anything meaningful with the feedback.

I really, really, really hope they get SL alpha testing going in the next couple of weeks, and they push back the release date to early 2021. Fuck missing a deadline. It's very important they get SL right, and that will only come from a nice long alpha/beta cycle where they have lots of time to implement feedback.

I don't know that they think it's very important to get SL right. The alternative idea is they've resigned themselves to WoW continuing to decline. In that scenario, they've already milked most of the profit from WoW that they're going to get, and this last little bit is not all that important in comparison. It's more a matter of minimizing cost now.

[Kaver]

Mind defining what this actually means? Because so far you just seem to eb moving goalposts.

It means that when Blizzard use resources on a system, then that system should make the game better. Not worse.

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You keep bringing this up as if it matters. Azerite doesn't change the higher you get up in content.

The importance of getting a specific Azerite piece matters more. And getting a specific piece from the Titan Residuum vendor is heavily based on RNG (or a 10 week waiting period).

It matters that you only do LFR because you don't care what Azerite pieces you have as it makes no difference to you. So the RNG element doesn't impact you negatively. But it does impact players who try to be competitive. And the competitiveness between players shouldn't be based on very heavy RNG. Corruption gear is even worse in that regard of course.

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I would think the same no matter what content I do.

But you don't do challenging content so you don't know the pain of having heavy RNG impact your competitiveness.

[Mardux]

Duuude, you have like more chances now to drop azerite from raid than you had with tier sets. Again, you do not understand basic math. Droprate is pretty much comparable to previous expansions but you have to fill in 3 slots instead of 4 while in meantime rolling or buying them from vendor.

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It didn't fail. Just people are dumb and dont understand (which I personally find mind blogging) that azerite gear as direct replacement for tier sets is far superior design.
As for visuals - we should simply get ensembles like in ToV.

So three slots being permanently taken up that rarely (if ever) change your playstyle once you get your BiS traits is "far superior" to 4 of 6 slots that can be swapped around and have the potential to alter gameplay every tier?

What?

[Kaver]

Normal gear doesn't add heavy RNG to competitiveness?

Not to the same ridiculous extent as corruption and azerite gear.

[Mardux]

That's one mindset I think a lot of people fall into incorrectly. Consider this. We all know Twilight Devastation is straightaway the single strongest AoE corruption. That's not contested. But is it the most dps for the amount of corruption it costs you? Looking at my own sims, for instance, I've found a pattern. Several weaker corruptions add up to being more dps than Twilight Devastation for the same amount of corruption gained. Like right now it's not possible to zero out a max rank Devastation or Stars. But you could zero out your corruption using several smaller pieces for a similar dps gain.

I wish TD did more for my aoe dps than void ritual.

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It did have some negatives. Fact you were locked to that and could not break the 2/4 piece bonus at all even if say for Legion you were wearing 940 (can't remember the item level for heroic antorus) and your mythic chest contained 975

And you cant remove you head, chest, or shoulders now. The only difference is you could use different combinations of tier pieces. You can take off your azerite helmet and put on your azerite pants.

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Legiondaries better than corruption? Are you serious? Some classes were dependant on their correct legendary, and using it had no downside, unlucky mages who needed the correct wrist legiondary could also get unlucky and get 3 terrible legiondaries for all their grinding and then be stuck until 7.1 when the legiondary cap was removed and could do nothing about it except reroll to another mage if they wanted to try again.

Corruption is better than this in every regard.
Corruption as a mechanic is already self-balancing, since a great corruption might put a player above the treshold where they can comfortably play compared to cheaper ones.
Corrupted gear can come from anywhere, with several avenues for guaranteed drops, meaning every player can get several corrupted peices to experiment with each week, most of whom will eventually become a good piece unless you are severely unlucky.
It is only the final patch, where OP systems are the norm rather than the exception, unlike Legiondaries which were in Legion from the start, cuasing grief to players who were not either extremely lucky, or willing to grind all free hours of the day in search for their ideal 2 pieces.

Are we still pretending legiondaries were hard capped? Wow...

[Kaver]

Duuude, you have like more chances now to drop azerite from raid than you had with tier sets. Again, you do not understand basic math. Droprate is pretty much comparable to previous expansions but you have to fill in 3 slots instead of 4 while in meantime rolling or buying them from vendor.

I still don't know why you are talking about tier sets and previous expansions? I'm looking at the current situation. And the current situation is that Azerite gear is bad for the game. Tier sets have nothing to do with that.

[Big Thanks]

Only a very small minority of players are going to look back at the Azerite gear with any positive feelings

Azerites...are...good...customization

Plz stop saying otherwise

The only thing bad about azerites is the fact Blizzard refuses to implement customization that changes gameplay of the class.
Its not azerite fault as a system.
Is Blizzards fault.

Still good customization.

[Kaver]

Once again, I ask what your obsession with Azerite gear's failure is?

Azerite gear is adding an unnecessary RNG element to your performance without making the gameplay of the game more fun. Corruption gear which was added after Azerite gear is even worse. Therefore I'm concerned that Blizzard will continue this unfortunate trend into Shadowlands.

If they have a system that adds a lot of negative effects to the game without making the game any more fun, then they should not add that system to the game. BFA would be more enjoyable to play if Azerite gear and corruption wasn't in it.

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The only thing bad about azerites is the fact Blizzard refuses to implement customization that changes gameplay of the class.
Its not azerite fault as a system.
Is Blizzards fault.

Well... of course it is Blizzards fault... The azerite system didn't create itself, so that fact is pretty obvious professor xD

A customization system which doesn't change the gameplay of the classes is just not a good customization system. It doesn't work.

If Blizzard could add something which actually change the way you play your class then it's all good. But Azerite gear doesn't do that.

[Big Thanks]

ell... of course it is Blizzards fault... The azerite system didn't create itself, so that fact is pretty obvious professor xD

A customization system which doesn't change the gameplay of the classes is just not a good customization system. It doesn't work.

If Blizzard could add something which actually change the way you play your class then it's all good. But Azerite gear doesn't do that.

It doesnt work?

I am for the first time in the entire expansion able to kill other players as a brewmaster Monk in arena and battlegrounds.
Why?
Because of customization.

Azerites, Essences and Corruption are feeding me endless power. Power i never had before.
I spent the entire expansion waiting for this moment.

The moment customization is so good...im finally able to kill people with my Brew

GOOD CUSTOMIZATION if u ask me. Even though is just passives.

[Kaver]

That's one mindset I think a lot of people fall into incorrectly. Consider this. We all know Twilight Devastation is straightaway the single strongest AoE corruption. That's not contested. But is it the most dps for the amount of corruption it costs you? Looking at my own sims, for instance, I've found a pattern. Several weaker corruptions add up to being more dps than Twilight Devastation for the same amount of corruption gained.

Which class/spec are you playing? Because for some specs (for example BM hunter) the stat corruptions are better per corruption than the proc corruptions (e.g. Twilight Dev).

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It doesnt work?

I am for the first time in the entire expansion able to kill other players as a brewmaster Monk in arena and battlegrounds.
Why?
Because of customization.

That's not customization. That's just a power increase.

[NineSpine]

It doesnt work?

I am for the first time in the entire expansion able to kill other players as a brewmaster Monk in arena and battlegrounds.
Why?
Because of customization.

Azerites, Essences and Corruption are feeding me endless power. Power i never had before.
I spent the entire expansion waiting for this moment.

The moment customization is so good...im finally able to kill people with my Brew

GOOD CUSTOMIZATION if u ask me. Even though is just passives.

Power is not customization.

[Sondrelk]

Are we still pretending legiondaries were hard capped? Wow...

Legiondaries were actually hard capped at the beginning of Legion, and it took a fair bit for that to change. Though even beyond that, the low droprate meant that good or bad luck could be the defining factor in whether you topped DPS meters or were benched for doing subpar DPS. It took until 7.2 for targeted acquisition of Legiondaries to even be a thing, and that syustem was hardly reliable, it wasnt until the literal last patch of Legion, 7.3.5 that it was possible to in some way be guaranteed a legiondary at set times with the vendor.

[Big Thanks]

Power is not customization.

Its customization...even though is passives, i take this over having nothing.
Its either nothing or this we have now.

Because Blizzard refuses to add things that change gameplay.

[Sondrelk]

Azerite gear is adding an unnecessary RNG element to your performance without making the gameplay of the game more fun. Corruption gear which was added after Azerite gear is even worse. Therefore I'm concerned that Blizzard will continue this unfortunate trend into Shadowlands.

If they have a system that adds a lot of negative effects to the game without making the game any more fun, then they should not add that system to the game. BFA would be more enjoyable to play if Azerite gear and corruption wasn't in it.

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Well... of course it is Blizzards fault... The azerite system didn't create itself, so that fact is pretty obvious professor xD

A customization system which doesn't change the gameplay of the classes is just not a good customization system. It doesn't work.

If Blizzard could add something which actually change the way you play your class then it's all good. But Azerite gear doesn't do that.

What is the RNG element you are talking about with Azerite, just so we are clear?
It cannot be the normal acquisition, seeing as that falls under regular gearing. Which means that your entire RNG argument for Azerite hinges on you being salty that you cannot guarantee a literal BiS mythic gear item for your spec in a short time.

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Its customization...even though is passives, i take this over having nothing.
Its either nothing or this we have now.

Because Blizzard refuses to add things that change gameplay.

We did have azerite powers that changed your entire rotation, the Meta build for MM in Uldir changed completely and was entirely dependent on the correct Azerite power. And i am pretty sure that there are still abilities that work the same now.

[Big Thanks]

We did have azerite powers that changed your entire rotation, the Meta build for MM in Uldir changed completely and was entirely dependent on the correct Azerite power. And i am pretty sure that there are still abilities that work the same now.

What azerite was this? Unbound chaos? Got removed...
Snake Eyes also got removed from rogue.

I only know examples of "removals" in stuff that changed your gameplay.

[Sondrelk]

What essence was this? Unbound chaos? Got removed...
Snake Eyes also got removed from rogue.

I only know examples of "removals" in stuff that changed your gameplay.

I think the problem is more that Blizzard nerfed the abilities that massively changed your rotation sinced it usually ended up boiling down to "Build buff, use buff". The abilities are still there though, just not nearly as good anymore.

[Sansnom]

I
Because it was broken.

Ah. So Blizzard had this amazing ability to know that the entire player base would not like this system. Yet lack the insight to act on this and continue to invest resources and launch it anyway.

One must wonder if they had the ability for the reverse, to know what the entire player base would like and apply the same resource to development such features.

[Eggroll]

I don't raid and I have my bis traits on my 480 azerites. HoA has nothing to do with raiding. How is it harder to find out? Rings are the only pieces which are harder to find out.
Azerite pieces? Discord/icy veins/hero dmg
Trinkets? Discord/icy veins/hero dmg
Talents? Discord/icy veins/hero dmg
Corruption? Dicord/icy veins/ hero dmg

I am referring to Ions statement that any item with a considerable higher item level should be considered an upgrade. That is not the case. And you actually need external websites and addons to figure out which is the better item.

In earlier times you just looked at your stats saying: hmm I need SO much hit, expertise etc after that ima gonna stack crit or haste or what ever it was easy to juggle around with your gear. Like if you got a higher item level piece that would screw with your hit cap you then would replace another piece to be capped again, or reforge some other piece etc.