Poll: Which is better?

Page 12 of 17 FirstFirst ...
2
10
11
12
13
14
... LastLast
  1. #221
    Brewmaster
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    1,332
    I want the server to naturally progress to TBC, with the ability to copy the character to a forever Vanilla if people want to. That's the natural way to go and the only way to appease everyone

  2. #222
    I can't remember if it was Asmongold or Bellular or one of the other WoW content creators.....but they had a REALLY good solution.

    TBC servers start new. No character transfers allows. Everyone starts at level 58, and the servers open with a vanilla setting for 2-3 weeks to allow everyone to form guilds, up their crafting/gathering, farm gold, whatever. But also give everyone a fair and equal start for TBC.

    Any other option has too many problems.

    If you allow direct transfers, new players coming in just for TBC are so far behind that they'll never be on par.
    If you allow character copies, same problem.
    Both have the issue of a new server starting with a wrecked economy, as everyone loads up in preparation for the transfer.

    If you start new TBC servers from level 1, then it runs the risk of people getting burned out at having to level up through Vanilla content again.

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    I can't remember if it was Asmongold or Bellular or one of the other WoW content creators.....but they had a REALLY good solution.

    TBC servers start new. No character transfers allows. Everyone starts at level 58, and the servers open with a vanilla setting for 2-3 weeks to allow everyone to form guilds, up their crafting/gathering, farm gold, whatever. But also give everyone a fair and equal start for TBC.

    Any other option has too many problems.

    If you allow direct transfers, new players coming in just for TBC are so far behind that they'll never be on par.
    Bullshit.

    If you allow character copies, same problem.
    Bullshit.

    Both have the issue of a new server starting with a wrecked economy, as everyone loads up in preparation for the transfer.
    Bullshit.

    If you start new TBC servers from level 1, then it runs the risk of people getting burned out at having to level up through Vanilla content again.
    These concerns about the economy are absolutely mentally deranged, made up conspiracy bullshit that has no basis in reality. It's just bizarre doomsday speculation that has NEVER ACTUALLY HAPPENED when ANY EXPANSION HAS COME OUT.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    - Ok, BoE items aren't transfered with your character? Fine, I'll buy green and/or blue weapons and make them soulbound to me and then vendor them for gold.
    If you put a limit on character transfer / copy (=like 1 per week during its release phase) and make a hardreset on gold, then you've already removed most of the gold with the transfer.

    You could then additionally also remove items from the bank in order to reduce space and any collectibles you want to keep, need to be in your inventory.
    But even if people stockpile on items that they can sell for a lot of gold, i think the impact of that isn't as huge as just letting them transfer all their gold.

    If we assume that someone fills their entire bank and inventory with items that sell for like 6g, we are talking about them having about a 1k Gold headstart, which also assumes that they have bottomless bags and transfer nothing but those greens and the gear they're wearing.
    There is a world of difference between people having 1k Gold as headstart and a few people sitting on 100k+.

    That's something one can live with, as opposed to the hundreds of thousands that people might bank on.
    Of course, there are more valueable items than those that sell for 6g, but i think stocking up on those will be a lot harder (i doubt someone would manage to fill their character's bags with Neltharions tear).
    I don't think an extreme hardreset is possible unless you literally nuke anything in the inventory / bank that can be sold for gold, but putting some limitations on it culls the bulk of the transferable gold, which is most certainly a step in the right direction.

    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    These concerns about the economy are absolutely mentally deranged, made up conspiracy bullshit that has no basis in reality. It's just bizarre doomsday speculation that has NEVER ACTUALLY HAPPENED when ANY EXPANSION HAS COME OUT.
    Because gold stopped being a relevant factor for gearing since Wotlk, after that, the crafting system was pretty much in shambles.
    You just couldn't craft items anymore that are going to be BiS for a good chunk of the expansion post TBC.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2020-03-31 at 12:01 PM.

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Dug View Post
    Character can only copy once and there's a cool down period. On top of that there's a cap on the amount you can bring over as well as the character needing to be a certain level let's say somewhere between 40-60 where the time investment required is far greater than the easier gold you would make just leveling in BC
    Okay, our guild has 60+ people with at least 2 lvl 60s each. We can spread our gold on all our characters, say we have 100k gold combined we can spread it on the first 60 characters, that's around 1600g per main ...or around 800g if we all use one of out lvl 60 alts to copy money. What would be the lockout period? A week? A month?
    It's extremely simple to set this up, just share a google docs (spreadsheet) where you ask your players to say how much gold they have. Then you make sure everyone, or as many as possible, stays right under the gold copy limit. Then whenever you can copy second characters (and third, and fourth, and fifth) you just make sure that every character being copied has right under the limit of gold that can be transfered.

    What about people who have multiple accounts? I have two active accounts, no level 60s on it yet but a number of people have 5 accounts they multibox on for farming- all lvl 60s. Say the gold transfer limit is 1000 gold, which is extremely low in my opinion. A raiding guild can copy 40k gold (or more) instantly, not including materials, consumes and rare items (for twinks or collection). Then whenever the "copy lockout" has ended they can copy another 40k gold (or more) and repeat that every single time the cooldown has refreshed.

    How long does it take to speed level to 40-60? a day, maybe two if you dungeon boost?
    How long is the character copy lockout? 7 days?
    How much gold can you copy with a character? 500g? 1000g? 2000g? 5000g?

    Lets say I have 5 accounts and multibox, which at least 2 people in my guild have and do.
    I spend 2-3 (say 20 hours) days every week to boost 4 alts, which will give me 2000g each on TBC realms.
    8000g divided by 20 hours, that's 400g per hour in just raw gold. But I could also copy over endless BoE items, recipes, consumables and so on.

    Also, lets say only lvl 60s can be copied over (or 58s because that's when you can walk through the dark portal).
    That gives us time from now to whenever to level up lvl 60s until our realm list is filled, so if I end Vanilla with 5k gold or whatever I know I can send that around and copy it every week or month and end up with 50k or however much it can end up with.

    Character copies don't work!
    9thorder.com | Recruiting exceptional players!

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    Okay, our guild has 60+ people with at least 2 lvl 60s each. We can spread our gold on all our characters, say we have 100k gold combined we can spread it on the first 60 characters, that's around 1600g per main ...or around 800g if we all use one of out lvl 60 alts to copy money. What would be the lockout period? A week? A month?
    It's extremely simple to set this up, just share a google docs (spreadsheet) where you ask your players to say how much gold they have. Then you make sure everyone, or as many as possible, stays right under the gold copy limit. Then whenever you can copy second characters (and third, and fourth, and fifth) you just make sure that every character being copied has right under the limit of gold that can be transfered.

    What about people who have multiple accounts? I have two active accounts, no level 60s on it yet but a number of people have 5 accounts they multibox on for farming- all lvl 60s. Say the gold transfer limit is 1000 gold, which is extremely low in my opinion. A raiding guild can copy 40k gold (or more) instantly, not including materials, consumes and rare items (for twinks or collection). Then whenever the "copy lockout" has ended they can copy another 40k gold (or more) and repeat that every single time the cooldown has refreshed.

    How long does it take to speed level to 40-60? a day, maybe two if you dungeon boost?
    How long is the character copy lockout? 7 days?
    How much gold can you copy with a character? 500g? 1000g? 2000g? 5000g?

    Lets say I have 5 accounts and multibox, which at least 2 people in my guild have and do.
    I spend 2-3 (say 20 hours) days every week to boost 4 alts, which will give me 2000g each on TBC realms.
    8000g divided by 20 hours, that's 400g per hour in just raw gold. But I could also copy over endless BoE items, recipes, consumables and so on.

    Also, lets say only lvl 60s can be copied over (or 58s because that's when you can walk through the dark portal).
    That gives us time from now to whenever to level up lvl 60s until our realm list is filled, so if I end Vanilla with 5k gold or whatever I know I can send that around and copy it every week or month and end up with 50k or however much it can end up with.

    Character copies don't work!
    Two options: Transfer with your stuff, copy without your stuff.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    Bullshit.



    Bullshit.



    Bullshit.



    These concerns about the economy are absolutely mentally deranged, made up conspiracy bullshit that has no basis in reality. It's just bizarre doomsday speculation that has NEVER ACTUALLY HAPPENED when ANY EXPANSION HAS COME OUT.
    Bullshit.

    (That’s how I win internet fights, right?)
    "Auto-correct is my worst enema."

  8. #228
    how would i want it to be handled? Everything is always gold dragon elites even puny npcs and the drop rate of quest items are uber lower than 0.01 percent and takes long time for them to spawn. Yeah, let's try that.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Anastacy View Post
    Bullshit.

    (That’s how I win internet fights, right?)
    That which is presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. The wailing and gnashing of teeth over the effects of classic players on the TBC economy are completely divorced from reality and not backed up by any facts about what has happened when expansions have come out before.

    Not once, ever, in the history of WoW, has an economy become so jacked up when an expansion came out that the game was ruined for everyone. It has never happened and it will never happen.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    That which is presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. The wailing and gnashing of teeth over the effects of classic players on the TBC economy are completely divorced from reality and not backed up by any facts about what has happened when expansions have come out before.

    Not once, ever, in the history of WoW, has an economy become so jacked up when an expansion came out that the game was ruined for everyone. It has never happened and it will never happen.
    but thats only when people transition naturally to tbc servers, but when u staart copying thats when things get tricky, The whole problem is because of copying i believe.

  11. #231
    then its simply a one way thing, you either choose to stay in classic or you choose to move that character on to tbc. if you want another character on classic then you can just level it up. either that or you're only able to copy a character once. if you delete a character the only way you're getting it back is from a GM and they'll know what you're doing if you try moving lots of gold.

    market manipulation has always ended in bans so thats not really a problem. the amount of gold ppl bring into tbc is negligible compared to the amount of gold ppl will have by the end of tbc. the scarcity of items and the price the average person is willing to pay for a thing (vs just grinding it themselves) is what balances the economy.

    I do agree that there could be a grace period where players wanting to play palas and shamans get a week or two to level up to 60 before the portal opens, boss encounters should probably be at pre-nerf health levels, other than that it doesn't matter too much.
    Last edited by Heathy; 2020-03-31 at 04:30 PM.

  12. #232
    The Insane Dug's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    15,636
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    snip
    Yeah I was just thinking like a gold cap of 50g or something that isn't outlandish and you can only transfer over with the gear your character has on or that's binded.

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Dug View Post
    Yeah I was just thinking like a gold cap of 50g or something that isn't outlandish and you can only transfer over with the gear your character has on or that's binded.
    How did you come to 50 gold? That's about what you get from doing MC and BWL once.
    Back in actual vanilla, when I was 16 or 17 and a super noob I had several hundred gold when TBC launched.
    I mean now in Classic when I got lvl 40 and wanted a mount I grinded mobs for 10g per hour... 50g is nothing, if that's the actual option that is made then I 100% would fill up my bags and bank with soulbound weapons I can vendor for 15g each...

    Transfer with 50g
    full bag and bank slots can easily be 100 slots, 10-15g per thing you vendor (if you plan) and you easily can have 1000-1500g
    9thorder.com | Recruiting exceptional players!

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by letssee View Post
    but thats only when people transition naturally to tbc servers, but when u staart copying thats when things get tricky, The whole problem is because of copying i believe.
    No, there are people saying they don't even want characters transferred because they will bring gold that will DESTROY THE SERVER FOREVER.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  15. #235
    The Insane Dug's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    15,636
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    How did you come to 50 gold? That's about what you get from doing MC and BWL once.
    Back in actual vanilla, when I was 16 or 17 and a super noob I had several hundred gold when TBC launched.
    I mean now in Classic when I got lvl 40 and wanted a mount I grinded mobs for 10g per hour... 50g is nothing, if that's the actual option that is made then I 100% would fill up my bags and bank with soulbound weapons I can vendor for 15g each...

    Transfer with 50g
    full bag and bank slots can easily be 100 slots, 10-15g per thing you vendor (if you plan) and you easily can have 1000-1500g
    Well nothing would stop you from doing that on a BC server anyways if you can just run back and farm classic dungeons to sell blues. You're seriously over thinking it. People will NOT want to start fresh and want to copy their characters, you have to give them some gold to start with.

    But alright fine here we go... you can copy over 50g and you can only wear the armor on your character and nothing else in your bags except your mounts and hearthstone. So choose wisely what armor you want to bring into outlands

  16. #236
    Character copy to a new bc server seems like the best option to me.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    Not once, ever, in the history of WoW, has an economy become so jacked up when an expansion came out that the game was ruined for everyone. It has never happened and it will never happen.
    Because_the_economy_lost_in_value.

    The amount of people who were sitting on a pile of gold was also far smaller (and the pile was a lot smaller) because people hadn't yet refined playing the AH.
    Now you have people that abused Layering to get loads of Black Lotus who are already making a fortune (or will make one once AQ / Naxx is out) just by that.

    Simply saying "IT DIDN'T HAPPEN BEFORE!" is so damn ignorant towards the power of the craftable items that existed in TBC.
    In Wotlk, you just couldn't craft a set that will last until ICC, nor a Mace that remains BiS for Arena for the entire expansion.

    With gold, you can get a ton of powerful items in TBC just by crafting alone, this is the crucial difference that you ignore.

    Leaving aside the fact that even simple gold farming strats such farming Ores and Herbs are going to be pretty negatively impacted unless you already have at least 5k Gold saved in order to buy swift flying (a rather "mandatory" goldsink that future expansions also lacked).
    More people will have that money to buy those, if those can farm 5x as much herbs in the same time, you are getting fucked because they are dumping the prices and you are getting less herbs.

    That's like saying "oh, people haven't camped flightmasters before, they wouldn't do it now!" before the release of the honor system in Classic.
    Simply because it didn't happen in 2005 (or wasn't as widespread) didn't mean it hasn't happened in 2019, and it absolutely happened on pretty much every PvP Server.

    Just to give you some idea, the Frozen Shadowweave Set for Warlocks, Sp's and Frost mages requires like 90 Primal Elements (split between Fire, Shadow and Water) alone.
    And especially Primal Fire is also required for a bunch of other powerful sets (Spellstrike for example).
    Couple that with limited spawn of Fire Elementals in the open world, you will have those selling for extremely high prices.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2020-03-31 at 05:35 PM.

  18. #238
    it just doesn't matter, if you want a thing, either grind the gold and buy it from someone else or grind the item yourself. the only issue with limited spawns is bots hopefully they just get reported and banned.

    it didn't take much googling but here

    https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/e...aft-gold-limit

    ppl hit the gold cap during tbc, so it really doesn't matter, it didn't break the game then, and it will very unlikely make that much of a difference the second time.
    there aren't 40 or even 25 professions in the game, its possible to get all the items you need without touching the AH, it sure as hell makes it easier, but if you're grinding the mats yourself, you can just get a guildie to make any item you could possibly need, and this by and large is what happens anyway, the majority of the time.

    at the end of tbc I think I had nearly 6k gold and whatever else is vendorable crap that was now useless, the wrath flying was a sink, the travellers mammoth is like 16k gold. there were enough gold sinks and the gold I took from tbc into wrath felt somewhat balanced around the gold sinks there.

    it wasn't balanced around the ppl with 20 accounts and 200 characters with full banks. and it likely never will be. there are always going to be try hards, but its actually pretty much impossible to break wows economy and not get banned. so you can have as much gold as you want, but, there is a limit to how much you can put it to use at any one time.
    Last edited by Heathy; 2020-03-31 at 05:50 PM.

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by Heathy View Post
    it just doesn't matter, if you want a thing, either grind the gold and buy it from someone else or grind the item yourself. the only issue with limited spawns is bots hopefully they just get reported and banned.
    Items on the AH are totally overpriced.
    Too many people are forced to farm them directly because they cannot afford the items.
    Farmspots are completely overcrowded and trying to get multiple Primal Elements takes multiple hours.

    Result? People get fed up and ignore craftable items entirely.
    Quote Originally Posted by Heathy View Post
    ppl hit the gold cap during tbc, so it really doesn't matter, it didn't break the game then, and it will very unlikely make that much of a difference the second time.
    The honor system also didn't break the game in 2005, but in 2020 forced Blizzard to introduce BG's early and it still ruined faction balance on a lot of PvP servers, which is going to cause problems once the War efforts starts.

  20. #240
    People are overthinking this way too much

    Any issues that could arise because of character copy are easily prevented by allowing to copy only once per character, and limiting any gold and BOE items that can be copied.

    This issue has already come up in private server communities that have transitioned from classic to TBC, and implemented this same solution. I have used this system before when a private vanilla server I played launched a separate TBC server and allowed character copy with restrictions, and it worked great. With a few common sense measures in place, it accomplished all of the goals and nobody was able to abuse it.
    Subtlety Rogue was an amazing, incredible, unique, and fun spec prior to Legion and BfA

    “All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others.”

    ― Douglas Adams

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •