Trump orders GM to make ventilators "GM was wasting time" and action was needed...

[Lenonis]

Funding is basically profit for government

No. It isn't. Like...not even close. As someone who champions capitalism I don't understand your agenda with such a false statement honestly.

the issue of utilities is definitively profit. The utility makes a profit, and uses that money for other things. That money doesn't stick with the utility. They are charging more than they actually need to maintain those services.

True, but utilities including the amount of profit they can make are heavily regulated. So although that's not great, that's also what I would at least consider controlled. I would assume you'd prefer those regulations be removed as a libertarian?

I get your point about profit motive, it's the fundamental basis of socialism and many other societies. I simply don't support it. It pushed government to be ever larger, which is something I oppose.

You need something to protect the people from the predatory aspects of unrestrained capitalism. Period. The free market won't cover it especially because free market principles don't apply in many areas such as healthcare and public safety.

Anyway this is getting offtopic so I'll leave it there I guess.

[Machismo]

No. It isn't. Like...not even close. As someone who champions capitalism I don't understand your agenda with such a false statement honestly.

True, but utilities including the amount of profit they can make are heavily regulated. So although that's not great, that's also what I would at least consider controlled. I would assume you'd prefer those regulations be removed as a libertarian?

You need something to protect the people from the predatory aspects of unrestrained capitalism. Period. The free market won't cover it especially because free market principles don't apply in many areas such as healthcare and public safety.

Anyway this is getting offtopic so I'll leave it there I guess.

I should say it's revenue, their goal is to increase revenue. The "profit is a misnomer on my part, and I retract it.

Except they are not that heavily regulated, they are given a free monopoly. They make profit, and have a profit motive. It's a perfect example of an "essential service" being pushed with a profit motive... in a forced monopoly.

And in this example, we have the government forcefully demanding that a business change what it creates. It's the actual nationalization of an industry. That is a very dangerous thing to do.

[Beefhammer]

In this case, it's a consumer product.

- - - Updated - - -



And yet, it has for many, many years.

Which they couldn't keep up with demand, 90% are made overseas and are not shipping out due to concerns at home. So since the need is now, and American manufacturers cannot meet demand, DPA needed to be enacted and used 2 months ago. Hell, fuck that. Trumo and is shut administration had 3 fucking years to address these shortages, but they seemed more interested in napping and playing candy crush than going over pandemic drills with the outgoing Obama administration.

If Trump was anything resembling competent, the stockpiles would have been filled back up. He only had 3 fucking years to prepare. Oh and he fucking gave tins of supplies to China that could have been used here and has the gall to lie about NY hospi8selling them out the back door.

Sorry, but manufacturers that had the capability and capacity to mave ventilators should have been doing so in Dec. When it was obvious they were going to be needed when Trumo first got warning this would happen. Private industry needs to be compelled most of the time to help.

[Machismo]

Which they couldn't keep up with demand, 90% are made overseas and are not shipping out due to concerns at home. So since the need is now, and American manufacturers cannot meet demand, DPA needed to be enacted and used 2 months ago. Hell, fuck that. Trumo and is shut administration had 3 fucking years to address these shortages, but they seemed more interested in napping and playing candy crush than going over pandemic drills with the outgoing Obama administration.

If Trump was anything resembling competent, the stockpiles would have been filled back up. He only had 3 fucking years to prepare. Oh and he fucking gave tins of supplies to China that could have been used here and has the gall to lie about NY hospi8selling them out the back door.

Sorry, but manufacturers that had the capability and capacity to mave ventilators should have been doing so in Dec. When it was obvious they were going to be needed when Trumo first got warning this would happen. Private industry needs to be compelled most of the time to help.

That's the thing, this is something that was warned about long ago, and now they want to force people to do something, because they couldn't plan ahead.

It's the American Way.

[Beefhammer]

That's the thing, this is something that was warned about long ago, and now they want to force people to do something, because they couldn't plan ahead.

It's the American Way.

It still would have. Just look at GM, they wanted the money to retool plants upfront before considering doing it. If you think for profit industries would have filled the gap, how come no one stepped up to do a damned thing until after the threat of DPA?

[Machismo]

It still would have. Just look at GM, they wanted the money to retool plants upfront before considering doing it. If you think for profit industries would have filled the gap, how come no one stepped up to do a damned thing until after the threat of DPA?

If they wanted the money, then there's no need to implement actual government force. Just have a voluntary contract.

Well, there is a profit to be made, so someone would have wanted to do it.

[Beefhammer]

If they wanted the money, then there's no need to implement actual government force. Just have a voluntary contract.

Well, there is a profit to be made, so someone would have wanted to do it.

Not the point. You guys spout the private market will solve these issues when they clearly won't unless there is money involved for them. You cannot count on or trust the private market to do what is right.

[Machismo]

Not the point. You guys spout the private market will solve these issues when they clearly won't unless there is money involved for them. You cannot count on or trust the private market to do what is right.

And, there is money involved... that's the point. I trust the private markets and private individuals to do what is right for them, which is what profit motives are all about. People (and companies) should be prepared for such contingencies. If there's a demand for a product, someone will fulfill that demand, assuming they will be able to make money.

Let's not forget, this pandemic is being funded by our fucking grandchildren, against their will.

[Beefhammer]

And, there is money involved... that's the point. I trust the private markets and private individuals to do what is right for them, which is what profit motives are all about. People (and companies) should be prepared for such contingencies. If there's a demand for a product, someone will fulfill that demand, assuming they will be able to make money.

Let's not forget, this pandemic is being funded by our fucking grandchildren, against their will.

Here's the rub. It's not about them, and if you trust individuals, when we have tons of evidence that individuals are ignoring what's best for them and potentially contracting and spreading the disease you sir, are naive, gullible, or both.

Right no ventilators are needed. To save many lives and no one wants to do it unless they can make money off it.

[Machismo]

Here's the rub. It's not about them, and if you trust individuals, when we have tons of evidence that individuals are ignoring what's best for them and potentially contracting and spreading the disease you sir, are naive, gullible, or both.

Right no ventilators are needed. To save many lives and no one wants to do it unless they can make money off it.

People are ignorant, panicky, and stupid. So is government. That part of "trusting individuals" is trusting that they will be personally responsible when they fuck up. If people want to be fucking morons, let them die. If they want to go get Covid-19, let them. I'm perfectly fine sitting on my property, and watching this shit wash over. The government doesn't need to tell me to stay away from people.

Ventilators are in demand, so someone can make a lot of money by producing them. If you want to do it for no profit, then I fully support you in your endeavor.

[Beefhammer]

People are ignorant, panicky, and stupid. So is government. That part of "trusting individuals" is trusting that they will be personally responsible when they fuck up. If people want to be fucking morons, let them die. If they want to go get Covid-19, let them. I'm perfectly fine sitting on my property, and watching this shit wash over. The government doesn't need to tell me to stay away from people.

Ventilators are in demand, so someone can make a lot of money by producing them. If you want to do it for no profit, then I fully support you in your endeavor.

And private companies never panic or do stupid things.

As we see constantly with this president that individuals are not responsible for when they fuck up. Not just him most people try to cast blame on everything and anyone else when they fuck up. Just look at many of the public apologies throughout the years. It's never about owning up, but rather apologizing for somone getting offended.

The job of the government is to protect and serve its citizens. Letting them just die is not a good thing. Especially when it would be almost 100% the government's fault for those people not taking this seriously.

[Machismo]

And private companies never panic or do stupid things.

As we see constantly with this president that individuals are not responsible for when they fuck up. Not just him most people try to cast blame on everything and anyone else when they fuck up. Just look at many of the public apologies throughout the years. It's never about owning up, but rather apologizing for somone getting offended.

The job of the government is to protect and serve its citizens. Letting them just die is not a good thing. Especially when it would be almost 100% the government's fault for those people not taking this seriously.

Private companies panic all the time, so do governments.

Government is there to protect and serve. Sure, you and I will likely always disagree on what that entails, and how to do it, but I agree with that concept. The issue with this current government, is that they were pushing misinformation and falsehoods to avoid actually dealing with the problem. Trump wanted the states to take action, so he didn't have to. He gets to pander to his base, and not be the guy making people stay at home. What's pathetic, is that people are actually buying into his bullshit.

I have stayed home as much as I can. I was still required to go to work a few times, as my employer deemed some things too important to not get done. I also own a small company with 7 employees (not including me). They have all been working from home for most of March, and will continue to do so through Memorial Day. Now, I was lucky, as most of the work our company does can be done via teleworking and (way too many fucking) conference calls.

[Powerogue]

It's almost like this process

takes time

and should have been started

MONTHS AGO.

[Breccia]

MONTHS AGO.

Or, even, right now. Trump is still dragging his feet, according to Pelosi, since he's asked for ventilators from a few companies but that's it. PPE is running out, for example.

[DKjaigen]

Or, even, right now. Trump is still dragging his feet, according to Pelosi, since he's asked for ventilators from a few companies but that's it. PPE is running out, for example.

The democrats are full of shit. a month ago they called Trump china travel ban racist and NY is a clusteruck because de Blasio downplayed the Corona virus.

[Edge-]

The democrats are full of shit. a month ago they called Trump china travel ban racist and NY is a clusteruck because de Blasio downplayed the Corona virus.

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/th...-restrictions/

Trump is overstating Democratic opposition. None of the party’s congressional leaders and none of the Democratic candidates running for president have directly criticized that decision, though at least two Democrats have.

Please stop sharing "FAKE NEWS", you might draw the ire of Dear Leader.

[Breccia]

The democrats are full of shit. a month ago they called Trump china travel ban racist and NY is a clusteruck because de Blasio downplayed the Corona virus.

My reply comes from these two quotes:

I issue that challenge. Find the Democrats that Trump is talking about. Find their opposition, quote it, link it, date it. Or admit Trump is lying by your failure to do so -- especially by your failure to even try.

That's from February. And anyone active on these forums saw it. Nobody responded. Therefore, I have long since now taken this as admission that, not only is Trump lying, but everyone who didn't even bother to look for the people involved -- everyone -- has by that lack of action admitted they know Trump is lying. Reposting the same thing literally a month later, with the same lack of evidence, does not change that. Everyone here has admitted they know Trump is lying when he says that, even if they are screaming into the wind claiming otherwise.

And, of course, two:

It’s one person coming in from China. We have it under control. It’s going to be just fine.

You are defending a known loser, and you have admitted you know he is lying. Pick another tactic. This one isn't working.

By the way, you know that recent Pelosi infrastructure plan we were talking about? Yeah...there's a tortoise blocking the road. McConnell says it can wait a few days.

I think we need to wait a few days here, a few weeks, and see how things are working out.

Let’s see how things are going and respond accordingly. I’m not going to allow this to be an opportunity for the Democrats to achieve unrelated policy items that they would not otherwise be able to pass.

Few things.

One, Trump is already on board. He is so serious, he even tweeted about it. That's how serious. IN ALL CAPS.

Two, a big infrastructure move was Trump's idea before he was elected. He tries multiple times, and failed. Is the reluctance because it's Pelosi this time? Or because there's no money? I mean, if McConnell wants to say "there isn't enough money to follow through with Trump's ideas" then he should say that. "We'll see" is what you say when you know you're going to say "no" but don't want to.

McConnell does score some points with "unrelated", as the Democrats were looking for thinks like windmill tax credits. I could go *cough* farmers *cough* but that might be too far. Of course, unemployment is about to spike hard. I'm fairly sure that, if you wanted a bunch of construction workers, you'd have a pretty easy time finding them in the next few months. People who would be happy to be outside.

[announced]

My reply comes from these two quotes:



That's from February. And anyone active on these forums saw it. Nobody responded. Therefore, I have long since now taken this as admission that, not only is Trump lying, but everyone who didn't even bother to look for the people involved -- everyone -- has by that lack of action admitted they know Trump is lying. Reposting the same thing literally a month later, with the same lack of evidence, does not change that. Everyone here has admitted they know Trump is lying when he says that, even if they are screaming into the wind claiming otherwise.

And, of course, two:



You are defending a known loser, and you have admitted you know he is lying. Pick another tactic. This one isn't working.

By the way, you know that recent Pelosi infrastructure plan we were talking about? Yeah...there's a tortoise blocking the road. McConnell says it can wait a few days.



Few things.

One, Trump is already on board. He is so serious, he even tweeted about it. That's how serious. IN ALL CAPS.

Two, a big infrastructure move was Trump's idea before he was elected. He tries multiple times, and failed. Is the reluctance because it's Pelosi this time? Or because there's no money? I mean, if McConnell wants to say "there isn't enough money to follow through with Trump's ideas" then he should say that. "We'll see" is what you say when you know you're going to say "no" but don't want to.

McConnell does score some points with "unrelated", as the Democrats were looking for thinks like windmill tax credits. I could go *cough* farmers *cough* but that might be too far. Of course, unemployment is about to spike hard. I'm fairly sure that, if you wanted a bunch of construction workers, you'd have a pretty easy time finding them in the next few months. People who would be happy to be outside.

An infrastructure bill should be fine as long as no one throws in unrelated garbage into the bill. This bill should only fund things that are directly related to the issue at hand., not side projects.

Link http://archive.vn/9aiMO

[Beefhammer]

Or, even, right now. Trump is still dragging his feet, according to Pelosi, since he's asked for ventilators from a few companies but that's it. PPE is running out, for example.

Apparently there are 1000s not being used in VAs and military hospitals that are not being even being considered, especially the ones in Afghanistan.

[Paranoid Android]

Trump hasn't ordered any ventilators from GM, despite saying he was using wartime powers to force production https://t.co/shsuET7gkR via @freep

https://twitter.com/RonBrownstein/st...238703106?s=19

So Trump has not ordered any machines. Doesn't say in article if GM is making any on their own.

The Do Nothing President.