Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Breccia]

did you not read your own source?

Oh, I read it. He didn't hit the entire state. He's hoping that one part of the state doesn't wander into the other parts. Let's see how that plays out, hmm?

[D Luniz]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...314869761?s=19

I may post this tweet every so often. Trump in this tweet set a number of 70k as 'no big deal'. He was never serious about the pandem and now he stated 100k deaths or more.

I hope this is used in every attack ad.

Weren't some of his watercarriers here using that to support him for the last few weeks as well?

The deplorable oroboros of talking points

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Make sure you also bring up the 2009 outbreak he blamed Biden for. Neither of us make the rules, but we can see to it they're enforced.

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We've compared NY and FL before. Florida has not yet issued a stay-at-home order for the whole state. NY did so two weeks ago.

FL's argument is "some parts of the state aren't bad yet". I guess he'll issue the order when enough people are infected, that it doesn't matter anymore.

"Yet" is something to avoid, not wait for.

[Breccia]

"Yet" is something to avoid, not wait for.

Indeed. But, here we are. Well not me, I have Cuomo. Some of y'all are in trouble, though.

[Belize]

"Yet" is something to avoid, not wait for.

Realistically it's way too late. We're about to tick into "people who were incubating are about to show symptoms" territory.

[Breccia]

"What He Meant Was" is usually just the WH trying to cover for Trump making a false statement, intentionally or otherwise. It's usually just admission that their man Trump is a colossal giant fatass liar.

This one is dangerous.

The Surgeon General of the United States "What He Meant Was"'d that Trump really did give a stay-at-home order. He just, you know, didn't give the order part.

Wanna see the video?

The exact phrase he used is "My advice to America would be that these guidelines are a national stay-at-home order".

If you have to use your "advice" it's not an order. The Surgeon General is pleading for help directly to the American people, because Trump isn't doing his job.

Which is why

Realistically it's way too late. We're about to tick into "people who were incubating are about to show symptoms" territory.

is happening. If Trump had given the order, DeSantis wouldn't have to.

"But surely Trump is just trying to --"

No no no no no. That was the Surgeon General begging people to stay at home, because that's his job, but he can't give the order. He's doing an end-run and there's only one reason he has to: Trump's inactions. Either admit the Surgeon General is trying to save lives by giving a "please pretend it's a stay-at-home order" loophole and he's covering for Trump's incompetence, or demand the Surgeon General be fired for overstepping his bounds and countermanding the President.

Trump supporters, you have 24 hours. Pick a side. Failure to do so makes you a spineless fucking coward and also I get to pick for you.

[Lenonis]

What good is a stay at home order for only the bottom portion of the state?

Well I believe it falls into the "better than nothing" category, and frankly anything to limit person-to-person contact will help. However I don't think that's what you meant right? I assume you meant "it's stupid to not do it for the whole state as a precaution" which I completely agree.

[Beefhammer]

Indeed, and I'm sure all those "death panel" conspiracy theorists won't have anything to say about it either.

It was just classic conservative projecting. We all know the private for profit insurance companies have death panels in recindment departments. They actively seek ways to cancel policies. United Health Care has two floors dedicated to this practice at it's headquarters.

[Lenonis]

Oh, I read it. He didn't hit the entire state. He's hoping that one part of the state doesn't wander into the other parts. Let's see how that plays out, hmm?

Yeah -- it's going to be something he'll regret. Probably after he loses office from an angry mob voting him out.

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Indeed. But, here we are. Well not me, I have Cuomo. Some of y'all are in trouble, though.

When the Chicago mayor and Illinois governor first started closing everything people were really for the most part a mixture of angry, confused, and irritated.

Now most of those people have really changed their tune and are grateful.

Of course some are still angry...I assume they are part of the rabid fanbase given their regurgitation of talking points about the economy.

The neighborhood conversations on things like Nextdoor have been really interesting as it's much more real than places like Twitter etc. People have to use their real names and can only participate in their actual neighborhood. I feel like that gives a much more real sense for what people are thinking.

[Odinfrost]

I know this is some days old and all but, it is pretty incredible that this forum and this video of Last Week Tonight have effectively reached the same conclusions about the reaction to the virus in the US and how Trump and his yesmen are handling it.


Which is, for those who wants a TL : DW, 1) Underestimating it
and 2) FUCK TERRIBLE!

[Breccia]

When the Chicago mayor and Illinois governor first started closing everything people were really for the most part a mixture of angry, confused, and irritated.

Now most of those people have really changed their tune and are grateful.

Funny how you should reply with this at the same time I find this interview with a former FDA guy.

Florida and Texas are “wild card” states that could leave the United States with more deaths from the coronavirus if they don’t take tougher actions, former Food and Drug Administration (FDA) Commissioner Scott Gottlieb said in a Wednesday interview with CNBC.

Gottlieb said he was optimistic the U.S. could still flatten the curve and perhaps avoid the 100,00 to 240,000 coronavirus deaths that White House officials warned could result from the virus even if strict measures were taken across the country.

But he said he was worried about “populist” states such as Texas and Florida that he said had not taken stringent measures.

“I think the real wild card here, and the decision point on whether or not we’re going to have the bad outcome that Drs. Fauci and Birx talk about, is what populist states like Texas and Florida do,” Gottlieb said, referring to Anthony Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, and Deborah Birx, the coordinator for the White House coronavirus task force.

"Oh who cares what some Obama commie librul socialist --"

Gottlieb, the FDA commissioner under President Trump from 2017 to 2019

"Oh, fuck me, every single time."

said the two states hadn’t really taken aggressive steps even now and that “if they don’t get more aggressive we could be on the cusp of some bad outcomes.”

Both states, he said, have large urban areas with dense populations. And he said Florida is particularly in danger of a large epidemic.

“I don’t understand why those governors have not acted more forcefully right now,” said Gottlieb. “Especially when you look at a state like Florida. Florida has a very large epidemic underway. There’s multiple hot spots, they were probably seeded in early February. Now they have large clusters.”

He said the state was looking like New York, which has the most coronavirus cases in the nation, “only two weeks behind.”

"Two weeks behind" is a scary fucking statement. We've used that before, haven't we?

We're about to tick into "people who were incubating are about to show symptoms" territory.

Like this, for example. Congrats @Belize you have someone with both the knowledge, and the authority, backing you up. You must be proud and depressed. And the rabid fanbase can't even blame "Fake News" it's Trump's own guy.

Cuomo gave the order....hold on, it's in here I promise...March 20th at the very latest. He'd given other orders earlier, such as this tweet IN ALL CAPS, which I'm just going to hold onto in case Trump tries to blame Cuomo later.

Two weeks from March 20th is this weekend. Clock is ticking. Yes, I know, it's probably too late anyhow.

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Every single time it gets worse. It's time for Guess The Raging Cunt Whore!

I think it’s really disappointing to have President Obama’s number two, who apparently doesn’t talk much to him, out there criticizing instead of saying, hey, here’s what we did that we thought was effective

"Umm..."

Too slow, it's Kellyanne Conway on FOX Fucking News. That bitch hypocrite fuckbrain went so far as to say Biden, who Trump personally blamed for mishandling the 2009 outbreak, should be helping with this one.

Wanna see the video?

Once again, rabid fanbase, you have a choice to make. Should Biden be helping, because his actions were useful and made sense? Or should he stay out, because he killed whatever made-up number Trump used? Pick one, they're both deplorable, you have 24 hours or you're spineless fucking cowards.

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AND ANOTHER THING.

Why would you even need to ask Biden? Why not ask the people who worked for Biden, in the CDC, FEMA, etc? Why not just read a fucking newspaper? Remember, Trump blamed Biden, but unless you can find the kind of "Obama puts Biden in charge" ceremony the way Trump put Pence in charge, can you even back that up?

Also, another thing Trump recently called Biden out for? Causing a panic by lying to the people. One, what a fat fucking hypocrite. Two, Biden lies, yes, but he lied by overstating how dangerous the outbreak was. Trump has long past missed that option, meaning that Delaware's favorite son's advice is already useless.

[Spectral]

Some of the latest poll results are pretty interesting. There's a lot there; page 4 is particularly noteworthy. This prompt:

Below is a list of issues. Please indicate who you would trust more to handle each one.

Responding to the coronavirus outbreak.

Independents indicate that they trust Trump more than Congressional Democrats by a 49-20 margin. To put it lightly, that is not consistent with the impression one would get from reading the sentiments expressed in this thread. Some of the other results are interesting as well, but that's the one that really jumps off the paper. I'm sure the local response here is basically "there are no independents" or "independents are morons", but that doesn't actually seem like it convinces very many people.

[Acidbaron]

Some of the latest poll results are pretty interesting. There's a lot there; page 4 is particularly noteworthy. This prompt:


Independents indicate that they trust Trump more than Congressional Democrats by a 49-20 margin. To put it lightly, that is not consistent with the impression one would get from reading the sentiments expressed in this thread. Some of the other results are interesting as well, but that's the one that really jumps off the paper. I'm sure the local response here is basically "there are no independents" or "independents are morons", but that doesn't actually seem like it convinces very many people.

Some background with the organization or corporation behind the polling numbers is desirable as it can put much needed context on this, as has seen before is needed.

Considering neo-liberalism is worshipped in the US (myths: american dream, self made through hard work, etc) and that being one of the core reasons why universal healthcare for all is such an ideological tough sell. I do not put it beyond people that even with the list of errors the White House has made and is continuing to make during this crisis that a lot of people echo this sentiment of "Economy first" as they are more concerned with keeping their income than they are with getting sick, as that is their default behaviour they embraced and acted on even before this COVID-19 virus came into play and people are creatures of habit.

[Martymark]

Most of my democrat friends have resigned themselves to the fact that Trump is going to be re-elected now. His poll numbers are up, and Biden has evaporated into his underground bunker.

[Lenonis]

Independents indicate that they trust Trump more than Congressional Democrats by a 49-20 margin. To put it lightly, that is not consistent with the impression one would get from reading the sentiments expressed in this thread.

Zenkai considers himself an independent. Need I say more?

Have you forgotten the "woke independent" wave we saw? All of whom magically supported Trump and the GOP?

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Most of my democrat friends have resigned themselves to the fact that Trump is going to be re-elected now. His poll numbers are up, and Biden has evaporated into his underground bunker.

Meanwhile, back in reality:
https://www.newsweek.com/what-polls-...atchup-1495255
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaig...essimism-grows
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ep...iden-6247.html

[Odinfrost]

Also, another thing Trump recently called Biden out for? Causing a panic by lying to the people. One, what a fat fucking hypocrite. Two, Biden lies, yes, but he lied by overstating how dangerous the outbreak was. Trump has long past missed that option, meaning that Delaware's favorite son's advice is already useless.

Jesus, I can nearly hear you yell through my monitor.
I still don't get why news media don't have some kind of live fact checking whenever Trump comes in range of a rolling camera. Really want to see him trying to call out people if that was a trend... Though I can see Trump calling it fake news and storm off when questioned about that.

For the second thing: So Trump calls out Biden for lying... In a case where the lie might actually be the better option between that particular lie and the truth. Just like how overblowing how dangerous climate change is, would still help us in the long run. So for all the lies Trump calls someone out for, it is a lie that isn't really hurtful... Can he do anything right?

[PhaelixWW]

about half of all Americans live in counties with no icu beds

Again, no.

You're terribly misreading some data.

Let's look at this article: Millions Of Older Americans Live In Counties With No ICU Beds As Pandemic Intensifies

Now, you might read the first part and think that it supports your statement:

More than half of counties have no hospital ICU beds, a growing concern as the novel coronavirus spreads throughout the nation.

But it doesn't, at all. Further reading yields this:

Overall, 18 million people live in counties that have hospitals but no ICU, about a quarter of them 60 or older, the analysis shows. Nearly 11 million more Americans reside in counties with no hospital, some 2.7 million of them seniors.

So that means that only 29 million people live in a county without an ICU bed. That's 8.8%, so nowhere approaching half.

How about just seniors? Well, it says that about 7.2 million of those people are seniors, which represents 10.5% of seniors. A bit higher than 8.8%, but still nowhere near half.

How about we look at this from another angle, shall we? According to the wikipedia entry on the subject, the US is second in ICU beds per capacity only to Turkey. If you check the source for the US statistics, you can see that there's some slightly more updated info stating that the number of ICU beds in the US is 29 per 100k.

Looking at the list of countries, you can see that, aside from Germany, which is on par with the US, most larger, developed countries are much, much lower. Canada is just about the next one down at 13.5. Italy is actually high on this list, next behind Canada at 12.5. France at 11.6, Spain at 9.7, and the UK all the way down at 6.6 per 100k. And pretty much all those countries were showing a negative trend per year, so their counts are actually probably a bit lower with more current data, just like the US (though I can't be bothered to check each one individually).

So first, you'll have to make a convincing argument that the bed location disparity issue is one that is magically better in those other large, developed countries, which I have a hard time believing. But more importantly, you'd have to talk about how that issue must be so massively worse as to overcome the fact that the US has 2-5 times the number of ICU beds per capita to begin with.

[Zan15]

Most of my democrat friends have resigned themselves to the fact that Trump is going to be re-elected now. His poll numbers are up, and Biden has evaporated into his underground bunker.

wait polls are accurate now that his numbers are up...?
I am confused....

[Breccia]

I still don't get why news media don't have some kind of live fact checking

They did for the State of the Unions. Honestly, he lies so often about such unpredictable things that a day of catch-up is needed.

And you're damn right I'm yelling. The coronavirus is killing thousands and Team Trump is blaming Biden. Shame on them.

[Phaine]

Isnt it about time this thread gets closed, salty people that cant take trump winning elections, it gets boring.

as if them democrat presidents were so virtuous "remember cill blinton" .

I'm not american but my vote goes to donald

[Breccia]

I am confused....

Biden leads Trump by six points in national poll.

Also, it's the height of hypocrisy to say Biden has vanished, when he's following the Surgeon General's recommendations (not an order, he can't do that), and is doing a routine podcast, including a coronavirus one. Oh, where's Trump? Is he hiding in the WH? I smell hypocrisy #2!

Give him a day before you reply again. Remember, he has some difficult choices to make. You can't blame him for spewing garbage talking points, either, look what he has to work with. Then, not only can you call him a hypocrite objectively -- that's not a personal attack, that's a dictionary definition, he is condemning behavior by one person while failing to condemn the same behavior in another, that's hypocrisy -- you can also call him a coward for refusing to pick between the listed options.