WF/TFing was fine and now whiners have ruined everything.

[Spicymemer]

Corrupted gear is not a worse system. And as long as M+ is in the game, the gear systems from previous expansions are not feasible alternatives. You'd just end up with everybody doing M+ instead of raiding. Real exciting meta game there, eh?

M+ Is an acceptable peice of content, doing time consuming dungeons should not be a requirement for RAIDERS.
That gearing system SHOULD NOT RIVAL HEROIC RAIDS LET ALONE BE GIVEN THE CHANCE TO RIVAL MYTHIC.

Whats wrong with having people do older raids to provide a means to gear up?

[Relapses]

It is like casino addiction. Spending endless amounts doing same stuff over and over again, not for fun, but for chance to get lucky.

A lot of modern gaming is built on this principle. But because a disproportionate amount of the playerbase negatively impacted by this happen to actively post on this forum, it's often made out to be a bigger deal than it is. Blizzard is not responsible for the playing habits of its players. You can argue that it's predatory to implement as many Skinner boxes into the game as Blizzard has (and you'd be right to an extent), but it's been proven that these systems work both from a psychological standpoint as well as business standpoint. I'd argue that the game currently has too many opportunities to be disappointed by a reward which is a unique problem but one which is offset when Blizzard adds more deterministic methods to obtain things (as they've been more want to do lately).

[Big Thanks]

It is like casino addiction. Spending endless amounts doing same stuff over and over again, not for fun, but for chance to get lucky.

If it was a good chance like corruption...i would understand.

[Relapses]

M+ Is an acceptable peice of content, doing time consuming dungeons should not be a requirement for RAIDERS.
That gearing system SHOULD NOT RIVAL HEROIC RAIDS LET ALONE BE GIVEN THE CHANCE TO RIVAL MYTHIC.

Whats wrong with having people do older raids to provide a means to gear up?

You remove the gear system from M+ and you remove the incentive to do it (for 99% of the playerbase). I don't like it anymore than you do but its existence basically necessitates that some kind of system be present on gear to make the repeatable content worth doing.

[kamuimac]

It was a pleasure reading your post. Exactly how i feel
I wouldnt be able to write this in good english.

fascinating.

how on 1 side you complaing about doing endlessly stuff yet you are fine with runing endlesly visions for coruption reduction be even able to use them at all .

[Big Thanks]

fascinating.

how on 1 side you complaing about doing endlessly stuff yet you are fine with runing endlesly visions for coruption reduction be even able to use them at all .

I complain about doing endlessly stuff?
Its the other way around.
I LOVE being able to do content endlessly without a timegate.

[Relapses]

fascinating.

how on 1 side you complaing about doing endlessly stuff yet you are fine with runing endlesly visions for coruption reduction be even able to use them at all .

You aren't intended to be able to use all your Corrupted gear. That's the purpose and the fundamental difference between Corrupted gear and WF/TFing. With a TF'd piece, if it rolled max ilvl it was 100% best in all situations. If you got hella lucky, you could have as much TFing as you wanted with literal zero risk. With Corrupted gear you still get an upgrade but because of the Corruption mechanic you have to choose which pieces you use and what level of Corruption you're comfortable playing around. Given that prior to the Corrupted system existing, most people only ever used maybe 2-3 pieces of TF/WF'd gear, the functional result is that you can now have a somewhat deterministic method of obtaining an upgrade (Visions) and you'll still effectively have the same amount of upgraded gear as you did with the prior system... just with the added ability to choose how you roll out your damage profile.

[kamuimac]

This sort of disingenuous argument is not helpful to any kind of discussion. People would not quit if there was no titanforging. No one has continued raiding - or enjoyed raiding - simply because there was a chance to get a titanforged variant of an item they want or have. All titanforging does is disincentivize players who want the satisfaction of getting the best gear possible from a patch from trying to get their BiS, as doing so would force them to fish for titanforge procs, which is an awful experience.

and yet in legion blizzard didnt have to pull desperate stunts like 100% xp buff and legacy loot active 2 months into last tier.

to keep people subbed because they are unsubbing atm .

why they are unsubing ? because they reached certain celling and for sure they cba to farm coruptions .

TF worked. corruption is not working

simple as that.

they made mistake by removing it and now they are paying the price.

[Relapses]

and yet in legion blizzard didnt have to pull desperate stunts like 100% xp buff and legacy loot active 2 months into last tier.

to keep people subbed because they are unsubbing atm .

why they are unsubing ? because they reached certain celling and for sure they cba to farm coruptions .

TF worked. corruption is not working

simple as that.

they made mistake by removing it and now they are paying the price.

What...? The 100% experience buff has nothing to do with "falling subs." There's a worldwide pandemic going on and most people are stuck indoors. Hello? And the Legion change is just common sense as rationalized by Blizzard themselves when they rolled it out. ("Most people are soloing this shit anyway so we're gonna make it a Legacy raid.") Not everything Blizzard does is implicitly a retention mechanic... there's no point in cynically framing it as such when you have zero evidence to back it up.

[kamuimac]

You aren't intended to be able to use all your Corrupted gear. That's the purpose and the fundamental difference between Corrupted gear and WF/TFing. With a TF'd piece, if it rolled max ilvl it was 100% best in all situations. If you got hella lucky, you could have as much TFing as you wanted with literal zero risk. With Corrupted gear you still get an upgrade but because of the Corruption mechanic you have to choose which pieces you use and what level of Corruption you're comfortable playing around. Given that prior to the Corrupted system existing, most people only ever used maybe 2-3 pieces of TF/WF'd gear, the functional result is that you can now have a somewhat deterministic method of obtaining an upgrade (Visions) and you'll still effectively have the same amount of upgraded gear as you did with the prior system... just with the added ability to choose how you roll out your damage profile.

and thats boring.

i remember huge forum debates in MoP when people were geting upgrades but because they couldnt upgrade it with vp they had to keep them in bags . people were furious.

same is with coruptions. only this time people dont even bother comlaining and leave game.

most people just cba with it because why farm something which you cannot even use

this system fails on very fundamental level.

- - - Updated - - -

What...? The 100% experience buff has nothing to do with "falling subs." There's a worldwide pandemic going on and most people are stuck indoors. Hello? And the Legion change is just common sense as rationalized by Blizzard themselves when they rolled it out. ("Most people are soloing this shit anyway so we're gonna make it a Legacy raid.") Not everything Blizzard does is implicitly a retention mechanic... there's no point in cynically framing it as such when you have zero evidence to back it up.

ye and the essence change was them listening to players not something previously planned. suuure

[Relapses]

and thats boring.

i remember huge forum debates in MoP when people were geting upgrades but because they couldnt upgrade it with vp they had to keep them in bags

same is with coruptions

most people just cba with it because why farm something which you cannot even use

this system fails on very fundamental level.

I disagree strongly. In fact, I see more people raiding than ever before. There are constantly groups going on for every type of content imaginable. Mythic raiders still farm Heroic for Corruptions. M+ runs are more plentiful today than ever before. You can find Vision groups going of every variety. Even Warfronts are fairly easy to find groups for. This dearth of players doing content you seem to think Corrupted gear has caused doesn't seem to exist as far as I can see.

It sounds to me like you've reached a cynical conclusion ("I don't like the system so nobody can like it") and you're using non-existent evidence to support your viewpoint. That's fine, but I really don't think it's nearly as bad as you'd like to think it is.

[Magical Mudcrab]

and yet in legion blizzard didnt have to pull desperate stunts like 100% xp buff and legacy loot active 2 months into last tier.

to keep people subbed because they are unsubbing atm .

They added the experience boost to incentivize people to play WoW, and to try and garner a small amount of goodwill after all the bad publicity they've had (esp.) over the last 2~years. Do they want people to re-sub? Yes, but this isn't the type of incentive that gets players to sub for long periods of time. The Dreadwake is an example of a subscription incentive with a long-term commitment, and that was during titanforging. Going by the logic you're just presented, that must mean titanforging is a colossal failure because of that alone.

why they are unsubing ? because they reached certain celling and for sure they cba to farm coruptions .

TF worked. corruption is not working

simple as that.

they made mistake by removing it and now they are paying the price.

People are unsubbing because we're 3 months into the final patch, there's now going to be a content drought until at *least* late this year (likely sometime around December, as that's the current latest date), and they've completed the content they care to complete. Again, no one stays for the sake of farming raids for titanforging.

[Big Thanks]

and thats boring.

i remember huge forum debates in MoP when people were geting upgrades but because they couldnt upgrade it with vp they had to keep them in bags . people were furious.

same is with coruptions. only this time people dont even bother comlaining and leave game.

most people just cba with it because why farm something which you cannot even use

this system fails on very fundamental level.

LOL i was thinking in making a thread asking for people to show images of their bags because of corruption item hoarding (hoarding the right english word?)
I love it and i think is very RPG-Like no bullshitting here...i think is awesome hoarding items with special effects.

[Kaver]

Titan-forging was awful you couldn't see certain drops regardless of skill level but both systems are bad. Also stop attacking players who wanted change and attack the incompetent company that ignores our ideas to implement there awful ones.

Exactly. I wanted Titanforging gone, but I never asked for the corruption system. People make it sound like it has to be either or. But it's not. Both systems suck. Titanforging sucks and corruption sucks. Why cant we remove both systems. There doesn't have to be a replacement if Blizzard cant do it right.

[Relapses]

Exactly. I wanted Titanforging gone, but I never asked for the corruption system. People make it sound like it has to be either or. Why cant we removed both systems. There doesn't need to be a replacement if Blizzard cant do it right.

Once more, because of M+. You can't have M+ have scaling rewards if there's no system to offset the replayability of that content. Otherwise everybody would just farm M+ and nobody would ever step foot in a raid.

[Kaver]

I disagree strongly. In fact, I see more people raiding than ever before.

Well then you didn't see Legion where people was raiding every difficulty of every tier to farm legendaries.

[Gasparde]

WF/TF was bad. Corruption is worse. There's no one to blame but Blizzard.
If your community feedback is 'we want less RNG loot' and your developer answer is 'well, let's RNG loot even more' then it's not the community's fault.
Stop talking shit if you have no idea what you're even taking about. It's not the evil elitists' fault, it's clueless people like you playing this game entice Blizzard to do dumb shit just so you stay happy while everyone else suffers.

[Kaver]

Once more, because of M+. You can't have M+ have scaling rewards if there's no system to offset the replayability of that content. Otherwise everybody would just farm M+ and nobody would ever step foot in a raid.

Personally I'm not raiding because of gear. I use 9 hours every week on mythic raiding (until the bosses are on farm and we can clear the raid faster) and I do it because I really really enjoy playing challenging content with my guild.

- - - Updated - - -

WF/TF was bad. Corruption is worse. There's no one to blame but Blizzard.

Very true. And people should stop blaming the anti-titanforging crowd. We never asked for it to be replaced by the corruption system. We just wanted Titanforging gone.

[Relapses]

Personally I'm not raiding because of gear. I use 9 hours every week on mythic raiding (until the bosses are on farm and we can clear the raid faster) and I do it because I really really enjoy playing challenging content with my guild.

You must understand you do not represent 100% of the raiding population, right? I enjoy raiding too because it's the one thing WoW does better than any other game out there -- but if upgrades are off the table I think you'll see a drastic drop in participation. Players will generally take the path of least resistance to get the best rewards they can. If M+ rewards are just as good as raiding, raiding will become mostly obsolete. (We already know this will happen. Cataclysm effectively ended 25M raiding when it made 10M raiding offer the same rewards.)

[Kaver]

Now with WF/TF gone they've replaced it with an even worse system

And nobody asked for that system. People just wanted Titanforging gone. We never wanted something like the corruption system. Blizzard is 100 % to blame for creating these trash systems.