Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[PhaelixWW]

There are other factors of course, but Asian countries that promote mask are doing better... Japan a country that is very dense, and has an older population is getting on rather well compared to literally every western nation.

The problem is also that anything short of 100% compliance faces severe limitations in effectiveness.

Those countries have a history of mask compliance. The same effectiveness wouldn't, unfortunately, hold true elsewhere.

So not worthless, but not nearly as worthwhile as people tend to think.

[Gaidax]

Public transports stopped here. Taxis are still running but are sprayed with disinfectant once a client leaves. Small convenience shops dont allow more than 2 or 3 customers in at a time, you cant enter pharmacies and shout your order from the door.
As for supermarkets you have lines and stop sign stickers every 2 meters to remind you of the distance constantly in case you have the memory of a goldfish

Edit you must wear gloves and use disinfectant gel, as well as cover your face.

I think you're honest enough to understand that social distancing is not something that really happens 100% in reality. Let's be optimistic and say it happens 95% of the time, it's still nice if everyone has masks for that 5% of the gap where mistakes can happen.

[PhaelixWW]

mmhm but the idea is still false that mask aren't good and you should just wash your hands and that's it because when someone coughs droplets a mask can filter.. but you didn't wear a mask.. washing your hands will help

The mask doesn't help the person who is uninfected, it helps the person who is infected from not infecting others. And those people can also choose to cough or sneeze into their elbow instead of the open or even their hand, per guidelines.

[PACOX]

The plan for some countries at this moment is slowing it down until summer comes, as it it seems the disease spread its slower with hight temperatures and low humidity, it seems summer its the best choice to get group imunity. Sweden has shity summers, they don't have nothing to loose. As for Brazil, weather there is tropical, temperatures are always around 28ºC-30ºC, the only exception is soputhern Brazil, also Bolsonaro doesn't have the money to get 200 million vaccines when it commes out, Brazil has nothing to lose... Even i still don't like Bolsonaro.

The plan for most European countries is most likely to spread the virus in summer, until then we have to slow it down.

I'm not betting on the heat. It's been up 80s-90s in FL for a while. Corvid is still out here. It's in hotter climates. I don't trust people to not cause a rebound when it calms a bit instead of preparing for the fall/winter.

[Inuyaki]

This could be the first day where the US have the most deaths of all countries.
USA #1


In all seriousness. Those numbers are rising too fast in the US. This could be horrible over the weekend. Let's hope it does not get out of control too much

[Themius]

I mean, even virologists have been in agreement that masks are pretty useless. Study after study of past viruses show that there wasn't a major impact made by masks. A lot of them are still shaking their heads at the new turn toward masks because most of those are citing eastern results, and that the east has immensely embraced masks. But the east has done literally everything differently. China has gone into dystopian, technology-assisted lockdown. South Korea is doing the most innovative testing and preventative measures on the planet. The mask is basically just a convenient out for the west to ignore that it's doing everything wrong.

But it's probably true, even if a mask only lowers your chances of infection by 1%, 1% becomes more significant when you're looking at millions of possible infections. It's not going to be what turns the whole thing around, but it'll bring some numbers down.

"useless" seems like a serious and hyperbolic stretch. considering:

For many years, scientists weren’t sure whether wearing a mask was effective at preventing the spread of viruses. However, recent studies suggest they can help.

One 2013 studyTrusted Source looked at how masks could help people with the seasonal flu limit spreading it when they exhale small droplets containing the virus. Overall, researchers found masks led to a more than threefold reduction in how much virus people sprayed into the air.

Past viral studies of sars shows IT ALSO HELPS.

To say they're useless doesn't make much sense while we make a big fuss to make sure doctors are wearing them to stop the spread to patients... do you see the problem here between simultaneously saying they're useless, but make sure every single health care worker is wearing one even the surgical ones

There is no "probably true" it is true period and it likely is more than 1% if people did things properly.

Surgical masks block the majority of particulate under 0.5 the common masks blocked 95% or so of particulates under 0.5 microns, which isn't as good as the 99.99% n95, but far better than 0%.

The way it transmits is through droplets, droplets big enough to be caught by the typical surgical mask, and in the cases where the virus is not in a droplet, the mask can filter 95% or so of the virus in fine droplets, which... apparently aren't common outside of when you're dealing with a ventilator.

Also the masks stop your own droplets and remember a very very significant number of people have no symptoms and therefore can spread it by just plain old talking which when we talk tiny droplets of saliva come out which can travel about six feet. SO JUST TALKING PERIOD IS A PROBLEM and masks will stop asymptomatic people from getting sick.

It has a good chance of blocking covid itself and it can block the droplets which is how you'd typically get infected as they're larger than 2 microns.

There were even studies in the past looking at how when worn properly with perfect fit and thrown away consistently that they could be nearly as effective at preventing disease as an n95. I don't agree with that though... but there has been one study on it.

Cited study:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3591312/

Surgical masks reduced viral copy numbers in the fine fraction by 2.8 fold (95% CI 1.5 to 5.2) and in the coarse fraction by 25 fold (95% CI 3.5 to 180). Overall, masks produced a 3.4 fold (95% CI 1.8 to 6.3) reduction in viral aerosol shedding.

They need to do more studying of course but it is promising.

Just how we were told eating fat makes you fat for 60 years... if you don't studying something very in depth and then ignore other studies saying the opposite you tend to not come up with the greatest outcomes.

[Demolitia]

I think you're honest enough to understand that social distancing is not something that really happens 100% in reality. Let's be optimistic and say it happens 95% of the time, it's still nice if everyone has masks for that 5% of the gap where mistakes can happen.

I certainly agree that some people have to meet, or visit relatives who need help, and they should definitely wear one, and gloves, and follow strict hygiene.
I do however question a general order on the use of masks when there is a shortage for people who actually need it.
It infuriates me to see assholes wasting a mask to go buy a beer and a bag of skittles, while ER nurses, or cashiers at the shop, or cleaners at the supermarket have to wear homemade masks or nothing at all.

So yes, I am honest enough to admit some people have to break social distancing, but many break it because they don't care.

[Shadowferal]

Protective gear in national stockpile is nearly depleted, DHS officials say

The government’s emergency stockpile of respirator masks, gloves and other medical supplies is running low and is nearly exhausted due to the coronavirus outbreak, leaving the Trump administration and the states to compete for personal protective equipment in a freewheeling global marketplace rife with profiteering and price-gouging, according to Department of Homeland Security officials involved in the frantic acquisition effort.

Hospitals and states face a real risk of running out of supplies, one of the officials said. “If you can’t protect the people taking care of us, it gets ugly.”

Several reports in recent days have documented a Wild West-style online marketplace for bulk medical supplies dominated by intermediaries and hoarders who are selling N95 respirator masks and other gear at huge markups. Forbes reported that U.S. vendors have sold 280 million masks — mostly into the export market — and that U.S. states and local governments were outbid in the frenzy.

There are few signs the Trump administration is making efforts to stop the export shipments or seize the supplies for use in U.S. hospitals, despite statements from Attorney General William P. Barr last week that U.S. wholesalers hoarding masks and other supplies would get “a knock on your door.”

A stockpile of 1.5 million expired N95 masks that U.S. Customs and Border Protection has in storage will be distributed to the Transportation Security Administration and U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, CBP said in a statement. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has issued guidelines for the safe use of masks with expiration dates that have passed, potentially leaving their elastic bands too loose to form a proper face seal.

Rep. Nanette Barragán (D-Calif.) said this week she and other lawmakers were told some of the expired CBP masks would be given to hospitals.

“Officials confirmed that the masks would indeed go to healthcare workers and be prioritized by highest need such as NY and NJ. I will follow up to make sure this happens!” the lawmaker tweeted Sunday.

[Gaidax]

I certainly agree that some people have to meet, or visit relatives who need help, and they should definitely wear one, and gloves, and follow strict hygiene.
I do however question a general order on the use of masks when there is a shortage for people who actually need it.
It infuriates me to see assholes wasting a mask to go buy a beer and a bag of skittles, while ER nurses, or cashiers at the shop, or cleaners at the supermarket have to wear homemade masks or nothing at all.

So yes, I am honest enough to admit some people have to break social distancing, but many break it because they don't care.

At this point, the simple thing is to follow guidelines.

In my case, I don't have to deliberate - official government guidance here is to wear a mask or a scarf. I'm sure they will even start enforcing it at some point too.

[Breccia]

Netanyahu shared a video with his Cabinet, claiming it was proof Iran was hiding how bad the virus was.

It was a made-for-TV movie from 2007.

Always check your sources.

[PACOX]

Asian countries warned the west though about this... South Korea and Taiwan both noted masks... the west simply didn't listen. And we have known about the large droplets since the beginning.

- - - Updated - - -



Social distancing + masks is the way to go...

That's what has worked for the countries with he lowest rates.

In reality they did not want people hoarding masks because there's not enough. Someone would have boxes of masks in their garage right now. Also most people really don't know how to use one they constantly touch the protective part, making the mask useless.

The CDC went about it all the wrong way though because they straight up told people they don't need mask, even alluding that masks were useless. A mask is not a end all solution but it's better than nothing and can mitigate spread. They should have at least encouraged mask for people on airplanes/public transportation - New York might have faired better.

All mask need to be redirected to health professionals first, people facing grocery/delivery workers second. Everyone needs to stay home except to get food if needed.

[Demolitia]

At this point, the simple thing is to follow guidelines.

In my case, I don't have to deliberate - official government guidance here is to wear a mask or a scarf. I'm sure they will even start enforcing it at some point too.

Well the guidelines were social distancing, cough i n a tissue or your elbow and wash your hands. When that disnt work because people were not following the guidelines it turned into rules and more extreme measures.
People don't care until they're forced to.

[Egomaniac]

I think you're honest enough to understand that social distancing is not something that really happens 100% in reality. Let's be optimistic and say it happens 95% of the time, it's still nice if everyone has masks for that 5% of the gap where mistakes can happen.

And if there were an unlimited supply of masks...that would absolutely be the thing to do...but there isn't an unlimited supply.

Medical care professionals have a far greater need for them than you because their risk of exposure is far greater than yours. You can practice social distancing to limit your risk...they can't.

[PhaelixWW]

And correct me if i'm wrong, but isnt re-infection a exceedengly rare occurrence, if it really happens?

Sure. That's a general truth for all viruses. There was some worry at the beginning of this whole thing, as there were reports of multiple extant strains, but scientists clarified that they were more correctly different variants, not strains. I think every scientist talking on the subject has stressed that there's no specific evidence of the possibility of reinfection, nor is it something that's terribly likely in the near future.

That being said, there are always rare occasions where it happens, but that's more due to the patient's severely compromised immune system, rather than any strength of the virus.

Because i've read that the cases of people who tested negative but then tested positive were
A) People who didnt truly recover
B) people who still had viral dna, but not active particles
C) People who had the antibodies but no virus.

If i'm correct, the evidence is pointing to "you get infected once, you survive, you dont get infected again for this strain"

Sure. There's always the possibility, (and honestly, the likelihood) that given enough time, some mutations will vary enough to allow a person to be reinfected, but it won't have the same virility as the very first time, nor will it spread as easily.

And also, SARS doesnt mutate that fast, does it?

SARS is effectively dead. It was contained enough to burn out before it spread to the mass population. But coronaviruses (of which both COVID-19 and SARS are) are single-strand RNA (ssRNA) viruses. ssRNAs are inherently prone to high mutation rates, although that does not always benefit the virus.

[Svifnymr]

In reality they did not want people hoarding masks because there's not enough. Someone would have boxes of masks in their garage right now. Also most people really don't know how to use one they constantly touch the protective part, making the mask useless.

The CDC went about it all the wrong way though because they straight up told people they don't need mask, even alluding that masks were useless. A mask is not a end all solution but it's better than nothing and can mitigate spread. They should have at least encouraged mask for people on airplanes/public transportation - New York might have faired better.

All mask need to be redirected to health professionals first, people facing grocery/delivery workers second. Everyone needs to stay home except to get food if needed.

I'd think they should focus on reusable masks for individuals, rather than the disposable masks that would be used for medical professionals. Since it's useful for preventing expelling germs, it'd be helpful without having to deplete supplies.

Same with gloves really, quite useful, if folks had a clue how to use them...

[Gaidax]

And if there were an unlimited supply of masks...that would absolutely be the thing to do...but there isn't an unlimited supply.

Medical care professionals have a far greater need for them than you because their risk of exposure is far greater than yours

Here's the thing.

If these recommendations are officially released to the nation, they made their calculations already.

In case of Israel - PM has straight out said to the nation today that everyone must use masks when going outside. Not "recommended" or "good practice" - must.

Followup was by Ministry of Health statement that it's ok to improvise a mask if need be and not to rush buy masks by truckloads. But the direction still stands.


Knowing Bibi's "must" when it comes to Coronavirus - this means he will give it half a week or so to see if people give a damn and then start actually enforcing it.

Quite frankly, I'm pleased with his performance when it comes to how it's handled here. He really did a decent job with this here, despite the fact that we had years of Health Ministry mismanagement under his leadeship and that incompetent as fuck Minister of Health.

Speaking of which, said Minister of Health returned positive today, so hopefully he won't be ruining too much of the decent efforts next 2 weeks or so.

[PhaelixWW]

One does not prevent another. You absolutely can do social distancing AND wear the mask.

Human nature occasionally interferes with "can" and results in "does the opposite anyway".

The thing is, however, that sometimes unfortunately you can't keep the recommended distance simply because you enter a local convenience store or even use public transport, where it's often outright impossible really.

And even 1 person in 20 not following a mask policy can potentially undo the effect of the other 19.

Like I said, it's hardly worthless, but it's not as worthwhile as some people might think. But as long as medical professionals have enough, I don't have a big problem with it.

[Gaidax]

And even 1 person in 20 not following a mask policy can potentially undo the effect of the other 19.

You will never have 100%, but it's better to have 95% then instead of 0%.

Other than that - masks are easier to enforce, as opposed to social distancing. I really hope we will actually be enforcing this in a week, once people get their time to prepare.

Nothing fixes irresponsible behaviors better than a good fine.

[Demolitia]

Here's the thing.

If these recommendations are officially released to the nation, they made their calculations already.

In case of Israel - PM has straight out said to the nation today that everyone must use masks when going outside. Not "recommended" or "good practice" - must.

Followup was by Ministry of Health statement that it's ok to improvise a mask if need be and not to rush buy masks by truckloads. But the direction still stands.


Knowing Bibi's "must" when it comes to Coronavirus - this means he will give it half a week or so to see if people give a damn and then start actually enforcing it.

Quite frankly, I'm pleased with his performance when it comes to how it's handled here. He really did a decent job with this here, despite the fact that we had years of Health Ministry mismanagement under his leadeship and that incompetent as fuck Minister of Health.

Speaking of which, said Minister of Health returned positive today, so hopefully he won't be ruining too much of the decent efforts next 2 weeks or so.

Sounds like he tried the same thing that failed for everybody else and then tries more things that failed for everybody else until you go on full strict lockdown
Can't blame Bibi but it's not something to be particularly proud of.edit: that being said if Israel has way too many masks, sure why not. But then wear gloves too if you go out. And change them regularly.

[Themius]

The mask doesn't help the person who is uninfected, it helps the person who is infected from not infecting others. And those people can also choose to cough or sneeze into their elbow instead of the open or even their hand, per guidelines.

The mask can block large droplets carrying the virus itself. So disposing of it immediately after coming into contact and washing your hands will protect you.

Going into your elbow is slightly better than a mask so, just combine the two... or even use your hands and then wash them or use sanitizing right after with the mask.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3846148/

Another important thing to note is that.

Sleeve coughing produced more droplets 1 micron or under, compared to just a mask.

Now the table on that shows sleeves are better if you're looking between 0.5 or less up to 1, but once you start including larger droplets... masks are better.

Also something else A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF PEOPLE SHOW NO SYMPTOMS and just their normal talking can infect people. A mask again... may be able to protect from that.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2843952/

You'll see most droplets from talking are larger than 5 microns WHICH MEANS A MASK WOULD protect you from asymptomatic people, and also help stop the spread.