I understand WHY people love TBC, but....

[Linkedblade]

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How long do you expect world pvp to last after leveling if there's no content in the world to do? Nagrand, Zangarmarsh, and Hellfire all had pvp objectives that gave rewards. Dailies force people to actually inhabit the world.

Rated pvp did a bit to screw up pvp. But that was due to them trying to balance 27 specs in both pvp and pve simultaneously. Homogenization and balance are conflated a lot. I remember they grouped up similar mechanics and put a common diminishing return cd. If they had implemented a separate spec and rules for pvp and just pvp, it would have saved a lot of dismay from class enthusiasts. They did this with warmode, but it was a bit late.

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It was kinda like a catch up mechanic, Badges of Justice, because each tier they added a new vendor. So you could spam heroic dungeons and get previous tier ilvl gear, or close to it.

[Aleksej89]

Biggest boon of TBC is the class changes and improvements, as well as the UI upgrades.

Those features made not only TBC content great but also ALL of vanilla content great - 1to60 leveling and dungeons were a lot more fun with TBC changes.

[crusadernero]

World pvp in BC? It will be just as it has always been in wow until Warmode was introduced.

Wpvp has never ever been about fair fights or anything like that. The stronger faction(in numbers) always have advantage and most people only engage opposing faction if they have a big advantage. Its also filled with a whole lot of griefing. Just how it is.

Cant wait for BC to be launched again and people once again get to experience the gankfest on Isle of Quel Dalas. I, to this day, Still remember the name of certain horde characters from back in original BC. Especially one certain UD Rogue named Blackbetty. A small isle, lots of vital Daily quests. Let the shitshow begin.


My biggest hope for BC is that they do progression gearing/raiding. DONT release BC on a late patch.

[Irian]

OP you're dead right but good luck convincing the dewy-eyed nostalgia addicts on this forum about that.

I hated BC when it was current because instead of being a free-roaming game with 60 levels and an active world it became a narrow world with a set progression path and a controlled PvP environment. If you are not interested in coordinated group arena or PvE the path of progression is actually BG spam once the later PvP season gear comes out.

BC wasn't bad, but it doesn't have the same mass appeal that Classic will. They'd be much better off trying to develop additional content for Classic than trying to replicate the same excitement with a server that will die twice as fast.

[Akka]

TBC is a VERY good PVE game and sucks at everything else.

Hu, well, that is the "everything else than PvE" ? It's just a long-winded way to say "PvP".
Well, PvP is a minor part of WoW (the overwhelming majority of the content is PvE), so you're saying that TBC was good at 90 % of the content and sucked for the 10 % left ? That's a pretty good ratio.

Also, I despise PvP so I don't care about that. The only part of PvP in TBC that had really harmful influence over the rest of the game was with how easy it was to get arena gear, which had a pretty bad influence on PvE progression.

[Zarator8]

OP you're dead right but good luck convincing the dewy-eyed nostalgia addicts on this forum about that.

I hated BC when it was current because instead of being a free-roaming game with 60 levels and an active world it became a narrow world with a set progression path and a controlled PvP environment. If you are not interested in coordinated group arena or PvE the path of progression is actually BG spam once the later PvP season gear comes out.

It's not that we're "dewy-eyed nostalgia" players - it's that, unlike you, many of us are PvE players.

I honestly don't see what you mean with "free-roaming game with 60 levels and an active world". All I see, as far as I'm concerned, are a few extremely easy raids, a few dungeons I no longer have incentive to run unless it's to help guildies, and a few zones across the world to solo farm for mats and gold I'll need to raid. I get pretty much the same in TBC except:

1) The raids are much, much better, with more interesting boss fights, more variety in terms of environments, more loot per character (making BiS actually a possibility for everyone and not just healers and maybe tanks)
2) Dungeons are not only more engaging, with many less tank-and-spank bosses, but we also have more of an incentive to keep running them even once we're raid geared, because of BoJ
3) We still have farming zones across the world, but no farm as crazy or tedious as, say, Black Lotus or elemental Essences (motes are much better, and Transmutation Mastery makes it even better)... or crazy rare BoE recipes
4) I no longer have to spend several minutes of "nothing" just to get to the place where I can actually play, because of Flying (sorry if I cared about wPvP I'd have rolled PVP to begin with)

BC wasn't bad, but it doesn't have the same mass appeal that Classic will.

Is this why BC had a few million more subs than Vanilla, back then? And before you mention "but pservers!", (1) Vanilla servers never had to compete with well-scripted, Blizzlike TBC servers because of how obnoxious TBC scripting is, (2) WotLK pservers had more players than Vanilla ones anyway, so I'm not sure what you're getting at with this, and (3) the only thing that kept Vanilla pservers alive is rerolling every 2 years or so, without that nobody is going to stick around for years in Naxx like they do for SWP or ICC.

So yeah, I do look forward to see how "well" Classic will fare once it has to compete with official TBC servers.

They'd be much better off trying to develop additional content for Classic than trying to replicate the same excitement with a server that will die twice as fast.

The only people who would even consider playing Classic+ are, well, Classic players. Everybody else who's playing for Classic in the hopes they release TBC or WotLK would just leave - especially if your idea of "developing additional content" is simply adding new zones/instances/BGs without fixing all the stuff non-Classic fans dislike about Classic, such as:

1) World buffs
2) Extremely pricey consumables
3) 40m raids, allowing for massive class stacking because of awful class balance
4) Raids being utterly trivialized because of the aforementioned three points
5) Paladins and Shamans being faction-locked
6) Dungeons having no real replay value
7) Honor ranking being a bogus system

and so on.

[Bildur]

Couldn't agree more. Flying destroyed World PVP and removed a ton of player interaction.

Nope flying became an obstacle for ganking lower level players who just wanted to quest in peace and level up. That's it. Plenty of world PvP in TBC.
What removed a ton of player interaction was LFD etc in WotlK and cross servers.

[enigma77]

TBC has failed on private servers. It will fail on Blizzard servers.

[Rotted]

The fact you open with flying killed world pvp shows you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about frankly.

[jzhbee]

The fact you open with flying killed world pvp shows you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about frankly.

It's weird to me how PvP centric these arguments against TBC seem to be.

From what I remember, I always had people to fight in TBC. The only time in which I feel like flying would be an obstacle is when I'm trying to gank somebody, which I don't care if the game wants to hinder.

BC had muuuuch better PvE content, rewards, and gameplay.

[Rotted]

It's weird to me how PvP centric these arguments against TBC seem to be.

From what I remember, I always had people to fight in TBC. The only time in which I feel like flying would be an obstacle is when I'm trying to gank somebody, which I don't care if the game wants to hinder.

BC had muuuuch better PvE content, rewards, and gameplay.

indeed, I was on a low population server, pve. The moment anyone was flagged, it was an all out brawl which only grew in size. Throw into the mix Nagrand and it was chaos trying to level or do dailies.

[Zarator8]

TBC has failed on private servers. It will fail on Blizzard servers.

You mean like PvE servers failed on Blizzard servers?

Oh wait...

[Lubefist]

TBC has failed on private servers. It will fail on Blizzard servers.

No, private servers have failed at their tries coming up with a good TBC server.

TBC will not fail 100%.

[Rucati]

TBC will do better than classic solely because of arenas. There's a system in place that allows players to work towards something the entire time. You won't just log on, clear a raid in an hour and then be done for the entire week. You can actually improve and compete with other players every single day, something that the honor system in classic simply doesn't do.

Of my 12 friends that were hyped about classic there is currently one still playing, because the other 11 all got to around level 47, saw MC get cleared instantly and realized that there's nothing to do at max level. However all of them are incredibly excited for BC. Personally I am as well, though I'd only play it if they start you at level 58, but at least I know there's plenty to do and work towards in TBC unlike in classic.

[Whoopax]

Strong cope from a noob that never played 2.4.3 tbc servers.

[Mister K]

TBC is superior to Vanilla in every way.

This. WotLK was also great, although it started to show going downhill mainstreaming everything. I remember, people used to already complain then.

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TBC will do better than classic solely because of arenas. There's a system in place that allows players to work towards something the entire time. You won't just log on, clear a raid in an hour and then be done for the entire week. You can actually improve and compete with other players every single day, something that the honor system in classic simply doesn't do.

Of my 12 friends that were hyped about classic there is currently one still playing, because the other 11 all got to around level 47, saw MC get cleared instantly and realized that there's nothing to do at max level. However all of them are incredibly excited for BC. Personally I am as well, though I'd only play it if they start you at level 58, but at least I know there's plenty to do and work towards in TBC unlike in classic.

Yep, I am one of those players. It's easy for me to jump out at any time, yet still have a solid progress throughout the whole lifetime of the expansion.

[Mukind]

You mean like PvE servers failed on Blizzard servers?

Oh wait...

Have you seen the stats?

If that isn't PvE realm failure IDK what is, lol, where are you setting the line? At 0 players? Because unless that's the line i don't see how you coudn't see those terrible realms as failures who are full fo the worst players imaginable.

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No, private servers have failed at their tries coming up with a good TBC server.

TBC will not fail 100%.

No, the reason there are no good TBC servers is because no1 cared

Cuz it hasn't aged well next to vanilla

Arena is terrible

Have to have talent progression for arena to even make sense....Won't happen. It wasn't harder to make a TBC server than classic by any substantive amount....Just again, no one wanted to. Because if you want that, just go play retail for your arenas and limited action set.

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It's weird to me how PvP centric these arguments against TBC seem to be.

From what I remember, I always had people to fight in TBC. The only time in which I feel like flying would be an obstacle is when I'm trying to gank somebody, which I don't care if the game wants to hinder.

BC had muuuuch better PvE content, rewards, and gameplay.

how is it weird when 90% of the player base plays on PvP servers in classic?

PvE is secondary in older content. If the PvP sucks the whole thing sucks

[Synical123]

TBC will 100% be failure like it is on private servers.

You must not know too much about p servers then. No one has made a good tbc pserver that’s straight up 1:1 tbc. They all do dumb pay to win stuff and the only place that made it sort of palatable was a pserver that is famous for wotlk. Shocker

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This thread summed up...

Classic players scrambling to convince everyone to keep playing their version of the game so it doesn’t die.

If classic is better, then let’s find out when tbc comes out.

[Nyel]

TBC is superior to Vanilla in every way.

Indeed it is. Not only because of the fleshed out specs but because the Outlands was an amazing continent, the dungeons and raids where phenomenal and the game just improved in every aspect.

I understand when you dislike or hate flying and that "breaks" TBC for you but besides that it was a massive improvement to Classic and - for me - peak WoW.

[Ragnarohk]

The long-term appeal of classic WoW *anything* is PVP and only PVP. Most people understood this when classic Vanilla launched, the vast majority of the playerbase decided to avoid PVE realms for that reason.

And with that said, the question is if TBC-PVP is appealing enough to keep people invested, and I honestly think it doesn't due to the Arena dominating everything. It will be fun to play through the PVE content again for sure, but the TBC realms have no perspective (and the private server community confirms it)

I mean. Look at the fiasco that Classic PvP is right now. They even had to hotfix out the ability to grief players in AV. PvP is a joke, people farming AV for 16 hours a day because of an unhealthy ranking system.