Mega-Thread: Democratic 2020 Primaries

[Theodarzna]

The only way and "easy election" process for my preferred party happens is if the majority of Americans actually support it

Which means once again your argument is that the minority should rule not the majority by virtue of... not living on a farm???

I believe the system at play is fine, Hillary's defeat is largely attributable to her unwillingness to visit certain states and bad campaigning. It seems like a terrible statement to respond to that sort of defeat to instead suggest "Well I want to make it so that sort of campaign can easily win next time".

I fundamentally think the system as devised is only deficient in that its a First Past the Post system. I'll agree that I don't think Battle Ground States are a good thing. But if you remake the electors to be proportional such as the Andrew Yang proposal that you know, now since its not FPTP, you have a reason to campaign in say Utah or Alabama as a Democrat, or go to California or New York as a Republican, you make the electoral college a better system. Basically I don't like getting rid of the EC because then presidents focus and gear their campaigns are big media markets, ignore rural areas completely.

Plus I agree with Yang's intuition. Its like, Man, Democrats have lost two elections recently because of this EC, and now Democrats prefer a system that makes those loses not possible; despite those rules being in place for an extremely long time. It does remind me of California Republicans cynically wanting to split the state because they don't want to put in the work of winning in California.

[Themius]

I believe the system at play is fine, Hillary's defeat is largely attributable to her unwillingness to visit certain states and bad campaigning. It seems like a terrible statement to respond to that sort of defeat to instead suggest "Well I want to make it so that sort of campaign can easily win next time".

I fundamentally think the system as devised is only deficient in that its a First Past the Post system. I'll agree that I don't think Battle Ground States are a good thing. But if you remake the electors to be proportional such as the Andrew Yang proposal that you know, now since its not FPTP, you have a reason to campaign in say Utah or Alabama as a Democrat, or go to California or New York as a Republican, you make the electoral college a better system. Basically I don't like getting rid of the EC because then presidents focus and gear their campaigns are big media markets, ignore rural areas completely.

Plus I agree with Yang's intuition. Its like, Man, Democrats have lost two elections recently because of this EC, and now Democrats prefer a system that makes those loses not possible; despite those rules being in place for an extremely long time. It does remind me of California Republicans cynically wanting to split the state because they don't want to put in the work of winning in California.

Democrats for every year while Obama was in office fought for popular vote with several bills coming up.

And several states joined the compact. Democrats have been for popular vote for decades and so DID Republicans.

Remember one party is reliant on lots of people voting. The other is reliant on stifling votes and suppressing turn out because...minority role is better?

Hillary lost and you want to ignore suppression?

[Theodarzna]

Democrats for every year while Obama was in office fought for popular vote with several bills coming up.

And several states joined the compact. Democrats have been for popular vote for decades and so DID Republicans.

Remember one party is reliant on lots of people voting. The other is reliant on stifling votes and suppressing turn out because...minority role is better?

Hillary lost and you want to ignore suppression?

State's joining the compact doesn't really change the position I hold on this, and I generally oppose the bill.

Hillary lost by slim margins in states she elected not to even visit. I am unsure why that signals to you that "Well of course why should she schedule a stop to those voters, fuck 'em!" as the natural response to that failure on her part.

[breadisfunny]

I don't think we are even discussing the same thing? You've gone off your rocker.

if you've read his posts themius isn't exactly the most reasonable poster on this board. that's putting it nicely.

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Biden spoke with Sanders today, privately, letting Sanders know that Biden is formally starting his VP and Cabinet search. I really hope Sanders is offer, and accepts, a spot.

would be the only way i would consider voting for biden would be a sanders/biden ticket.

[Puupi]

Biden spoke with Sanders today, privately, letting Sanders know that Biden is formally starting his VP and Cabinet search. I really hope Sanders is offer, and accepts, a spot.

Didn't Biden already say his VP will be a woman?

[jonnysensible]

Pfffft, this is how I know your knowledge is about surface level.

big snip, but do you ever get tired of using so many buzzwords just to create a massive strawman with alot of projecting.

as for decorum ive told you my problem with them is strasserism not how they say things.

[Santti]

Didn't Biden already say his VP will be a woman?

Maybe Sanders is required to identify as a woman for the VP spot? Now that would be great.

[Flarelaine]

Personally I think a lot of progressive democrats are going to be voting Trump in 2020. Biden is unwilling to appeal to them. So Trump is the best bet to keep fucking with the status quo.

You mean fucking with human lives, I assume.

[Flarelaine]

You're going to have to convince people that Biden is going to do more for them than Trump, because pretty much everyone knows that Biden is very similar to Trump.

Trump and the GOP is going after people. They are making an effort to make life harder for people, whether it's obstacles to abortion, to voting, to immigration or simply LGBT people living their lives. A president who simply lets people be is already infinitely better.

[Orbitus]

You're going to have to convince people that Biden is going to do more for them than Trump, because pretty much everyone knows that Biden is very similar to Trump.

How? What the actual fuck? How is Biden the same or even remotely similar to Trump?

[Themius]

if you've read his posts themius isn't exactly the most reasonable poster on this board. that's putting it nicely.

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would be the only way i would consider voting for biden would be a sanders/biden ticket.

We were discussing the same thing and what is unreasonable about presiding people backing openly racist people?

I used past comments and those of his supporters and the fact his rhetoric has lead to killings to explain why supporting him is reprehensible and people who support him deserve to be prejudged based on their vote for such a thing. It’s pretty simple it’s quite reasonable.

[Themius]

Aye, and it'll be extra depressing when he'll be able to continue it for another 4 years, all because the democratic establishment is allergic to more progressive candidates.

At this point your problem Is that you’re
Calling divine winnging by popular bite establishment.

[Flarelaine]

Aye, and it'll be extra depressing when he'll be able to continue it for another 4 years, all because the democratic establishment is allergic to more progressive candidates.

It is on every single voter to use their votes responsibly.

[JohnBrown1917]

It is on every single voter to use their votes responsibly.

Time to vote for the PSL then.

[Sunseeker]

Personally I think a lot of progressive democrats are going to be voting Trump in 2020. Biden is unwilling to appeal to them. So Trump is the best bet to keep fucking with the status quo.

Then, quite bluntly, they can all go fuck themselves. If you vote for Trump, you're not a progressive. Trump isn't fucking with the status quo, and anyone who thinks he is is a goddamned moron.

[Themius]

It is on every single voter to use their votes responsibly.

people say "the democratic establishment is allergic to ..."

I guess they forgot that this year that the initial round of voting is based on votes...

[Lenonis]

You're going to have to convince people that Biden is going to do more for them than Trump, because pretty much everyone knows that Biden is very similar to Trump.

Now you even sound like Trump himself.

Actually most people don't "know" that because it isn't true. This campaign to bOtH siDEs so hard the universe implodes is tiring to watch. Can't imagine how hard it is to actually not think so hard.

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If you vote for Trump, you're not a progressive.

That is very correct. It makes you a...reactionary at best.

[unfilteredJW]

You're going to have to convince people that Biden is going to do more for them than Trump, because pretty much everyone knows that Biden is very similar to Trump.

This is a lie and can be summarily pushed aside.

[Lenonis]

This is a lie and can be summarily pushed aside.

It's so stupid. Because they'll admit that Biden would appoint different judges to the SCOTUS and the federal courts which is a huge and super important difference but then they fall back to "well neo liberal judges wouldn't advance the progressive agenda either" which means their actual argument isn't that Trump and Biden are the same but that neither of them are progressive.

So instead of advocating for Biden to adopt a more progressive platform or to work with Bernie to move his policies to the left or to add people like Bernie and Warren to his cabinet they instead declare they are going to just vote for Trump or sit out the election all the while doing a smear campaign on Biden -- and then have the balls to sit back and lecture everyone on how being mean to Sanders supporters is foolish.

It's all just ridiculous.

[I Push Buttons]

You're going to have to convince people that Biden is going to do more for them than Trump, because pretty much everyone knows that Biden is very similar to Trump.

Well let's see, with Trump we get a 7-2 Heritage Foundation Supreme Court for the next several decades... Which very well could strip women of their right to abortions, strip gay people of their equal rights, etc...

You think Biden is also going to do that?