Covenant Class Abilities (Early Look)

[Flantini]

The balance of some of these things (for pvp) is already way out of control and its scary that some of these abilities made it even this far. Like other have already pointed out the DH: every 30 sec teleport to your marked target regardless of los is laughable because DH's are already incredibly mobile. The hunter los seems a little better as the enemy player can move out of it but it will still allow for broken game play and ccs that shouldn't be so easy. In pvp positioning is everything and these abilities even making it this far is silly.

Plus abilities like the rogue 7 combo pt one. are we going to see 8 second kidney shots? How the pvp dev team over looks things like this is laughable. Then you have abilities like DKs "Deaths Due" that reduces the dmg targets to do you AND increases your health AND increases your strength AND makes one of your strongest pvp abilites (necro stike) among other abilities cleave to everyone inside making this a very powerful defensive and offensive ability all in one with no down side.

That's the problem with a lot of these abilities, even without the numbers and dmg balancing, they are already incredibly over powered and should have been scrapped or changed early on in the dev process.

[dreamdaddy]

Well gee really hard choice there

Some abilities do seem a lot stronger but we haven't seen the numbers yet and we just have to hope that people can give good feedback that they consider.

[kammo]

I mean theres always going to be that BiS choice to pick, but I mean you really don't need to have the best one. Pick what's fun and you'll enjoy the game more

[niztheundead87]

It's the same game we've all been playing for 20 years. We're well past the point where we can't tell exactly the gameplay loop these are offering/targeting. Just like when we see fire on the ground, we all know to move without having to look up the ability. It's something you've just learned over the length of time you've played the game.

Based on the abilities, we can already deduce which are PvP (The ones with Leech/Stun/Root/Silence/Slow/etc), and which are PvE (DPS CD's, Tank Shields, Ramps, Etc), and which are M+ (Cleaves, mostly), as evidenced by playing the game for a decade+ and knowing that you cannot stun/silence/slow bosses.

We also know how important it is to be doing all 3 forms of content at the highest level possible as evidenced by Legion/BFA. Artifact/Azerite Power grind (PvP/PvE), Essence Grind (PvP/PvE).

So taking all that into consideration, I'd say the community can make a VERY solid assumption on the gameplay weight of some of these abilities, even without numbers being assigned to them yet.

Most are in progress so you have no clue

[Kirroth]

The way I see it... yes, some of these are modestly better suited for different types of activity. If you could freely swap between then like talents, a lot of people probably would. But that would just make them talents. These are supposed to be sticky choices that require investment. So you pick the one you like the most, or the one best suited for your primary activity, and you live with being every so slightly sub-optimal for other lines of play. Boo hoo. If it's a small difference than it's less important than player skill, and if it's a huge difference than why didn't you take that one in the first place.

[PointerToAddress]

You realize that the result from your example is not that player A is better on Boss A and Player B is better on Boss B, the result is that Player A and B need to have 2 equally geared characters, that they can switch between boss fights.

If those abilities were Twilight Devastation and Infinite Stars you may have a point, and only will have a point on guilds like Method who have the luxury of having a big roster of alts. But Blizzard don't develop content for those guilds and I don't think whatsoever that at the end of the day when the raids are launched that the difference between the abilities are gonna be as big as TD and IS. If your guild, or you if you're the RL, ask to have multiple same-class characters and you're not on the WF race you're just being very unreasonable and are gonna be without a roster fast, meanwhile another guild who won't care about it and are just focused on getting good play from it's players will be far ahead.

[scvd]

They should scrap the idea of having completely different abilities per Covenant.
Focus it entirely on cosmetic, so the abilities are the same, they just have a different appearance, making the choice personal, instead of mandatory.

[Demeia]

They should scrap the idea of having completely different abilities per Covenant.
Focus it entirely on cosmetic, so the abilities are the same, they just have a different appearance, making the choice personal, instead of mandatory.

This is probably the right call. What will probably happen is they go forward as is and later decide, "OK, we'll let you grind all covenants and switch abilities between them!"

[styil]

This is probably the right call. What will probably happen is they go forward as is and later decide, "OK, we'll let you grind all covenants and switch abilities between them!"

What will really happen is in patch 9.3, Ion will come out and say "We feel that restricting abilities behind covenants hasn't worked, so based on player feedback we are introducing a currency called Echoes of Shadowlands that you can farm to unlock other covenant abilities to switch between".

[Captain Marvel]

They should scrap the idea of having completely different abilities per Covenant.
Focus it entirely on cosmetic, so the abilities are the same, they just have a different appearance, making the choice personal, instead of mandatory.

No they shouldn't. The combination of the visuals and theme of the abilities should fit the covenant. Separating them just makes in another transmog and basically replicates the azerite gear system and homogenizes all the abilities under the horrible mantra of balance and fairness. Fuck that.

I was originally convinced I would be choosing Revandeth for my shadowpriest due to the aesthetics (also, motherfucking VAMPIRES), but the Necrolord's transmogs and abilities have almost made me change my mind (I want a freaking MEATSHIELD!).

Will my meatshield help me do better in your uber dungeon group? Nope. Will you kick me out and say mean things about both my mother and sexual orientation? Probably. Will my feelings be hurt? Nope.

[Laughingjack]

No they shouldn't. The combination of the visuals and theme of the abilities should fit the covenant. Separating them just makes in another transmog and basically replicates the azerite gear system and homogenizes all the abilities under the horrible mantra of balance and fairness. Fuck that.

I was originally convinced I would be choosing Revandeth for my shadowpriest due to the aesthetics (also, motherfucking VAMPIRES), but the Necrolord's transmogs and abilities have almost made me change my mind (I want a freaking MEATSHIELD!).

Will my meatshield help me do better in your uber dungeon group? Nope. Will you kick me out and say mean things about both my mother and sexual orientation? Probably. Will my feelings be hurt? Nope.

It seems like a worst version of azerite already though. I don't really understand the draw to wanting your character to excel in one aspect of the game and be fundamentally to cripplingly weaker in other parts.

I wouldn't say to make the abilities cosmetic but simply make them a talent row that acts the same as any other talent row but with a new theme.

[Captain Marvel]

It seems like a worst version of azerite already though. I don't really understand the draw to wanting your character to excel in one aspect of the game and be fundamentally to cripplingly weaker in other parts.

I wouldn't say to make the abilities cosmetic but simply make them a talent row that acts the same as any other talent row but with a new theme.

We are talking about the same thing in two threads, so I will leave off on the other one and focus here =).

I don't think you are completely honest with the criteria you are using here. I really believe "fundamentally to crippling weaker" is overstating the problem to a huge degree. Covenants are a major part of this expansion, probably second only to faction in terms how they will influence your choices. Removing any actual game play element from this choice seems to make the choice completely arbitrary, and I say this as someone who loves to dress up my filthy undead priest. Customization is always fun, but I also think there should be game play elements involved, or else it all devolves into a hat system from TF2.

[Laughingjack]

We are talking about the same thing in two threads, so I will leave off on the other one and focus here =).

I don't think you are completely honest with the criteria you are using here. I really believe "fundamentally to crippling weaker" is overstating the problem to a huge degree. Covenants are a major part of this expansion, probably second only to faction in terms how they will influence your choices. Removing any actual game play element from this choice seems to make the choice completely arbitrary, and I say this as someone who loves to dress up my filthy undead priest. Customization is always fun, but I also think there should be game play elements involved, or else it all devolves into a hat system from TF2.

It is difficult to talk about for someone who doesn't participate in the content itself... I know that sounds elitist but it is the truth of the matter. I haven't looked at all of them but taking DH as a example choosing the ability "on the hunt" that is in essence shadow step will likely be vital for pvp while useless in pve. That matter is confounded by the two other aoe talents that have clear trade offs between mythic plus and raiding.

There are gameplay elements involved but those are the same elements that have been in the game for over a decade. That is picking a talent. Just now they want players who do use different load outs for different content to grind for what they have been doing for a decade without grinding.

I am going to be blunt. From reading through the replies from these threads I believe that many posters here are driven more out of spite for who they perceive as "elite min-maxers" then they are out of genuinely finding a talent point you have to grind interesting.

[DrIvoRobotnik]

Uh oh they changed the general abilities of the covenants... necrolord looks BiS for PvP now... they should've kept the old ones. Now if your best PvP class specific ability happens to be with necrolords (DK) you'll be even stronger.

Well, it fits the theme atleast. Aren't they all about endless wars and combat?

[scvd]

No they shouldn't. The combination of the visuals and theme of the abilities should fit the covenant. Separating them just makes in another transmog and basically replicates the azerite gear system and homogenizes all the abilities under the horrible mantra of balance and fairness. Fuck that.

I was originally convinced I would be choosing Revandeth for my shadowpriest due to the aesthetics (also, motherfucking VAMPIRES), but the Necrolord's transmogs and abilities have almost made me change my mind (I want a freaking MEATSHIELD!).

Will my meatshield help me do better in your uber dungeon group? Nope. Will you kick me out and say mean things about both my mother and sexual orientation? Probably. Will my feelings be hurt? Nope.

I don't care what people go for, but if there ends up being a clear cut choice for people who push raids, do mythics or the tower, they will be forced into it, which isn't fun. Same applies to PVP.

Also, what do you mean by separate? They ARE separate.

It's all well and good choosing something and saying you don't care, but when it hurts the game it should matter.

[MrLachyG]

ideally what I hope they will do is make the four fairly distinct: one ability is for tanks, one is for heals, one is for ST dps and one is for aoe dps. that way people who do M+ will probably want the aoe one and people who do raids will probably want the ST one

[Skylarking]

Does anyone know if you can delay which coven you are to choose, until a later date after you have seen what others have used?

[Kirroth]

Does anyone know if you can delay which coven you are to choose, until a later date after you have seen what others have used?

Know for sure? Of course not, the Alpha isn't open yet. But if I had to make a prediction? Of course you can't, that would be impossible. Like "Can I just delay unlocking my Legion Order Hall and do Legion with no Artifact and nothing to spend Order Resources on" impossible. What you CAN do is try out all four Covenant abilities as you level and then, if you really regret your choice, change Covenants at the cost of some lost progress. Which in the first week or two isn't going to be a huge hit.

[Ophenia]

Just remember everyone, you won't be picking blindly. The leveling portion of Shadowlands has you temporarily joining each Covenant and gaining their ability as you do their zone. Then at max level you pick one of the four to commit to. So you're not going to have to pick based on a guess or an unreliable Beta theorycraft guide, you're going to get actual playtime with all four before you decide.

Yes but...
Some spells suck with 10% haste/crit but rock with 30%
Some spells suck solo but rock with a group
Some spells suck outside but rock in a raid/mythic+ - for these the only "testing ground" will be leveling dungeons, which are probably not something you can trust difficulty-wise

You'll make a choice based on a bare feeling during 2 hours max of leveling. This choice can very well be wrong.

[Kiryl]

I think the best idea for Blizz would be to have us get all of those abilities during leveling (as is intended from what I remeber from Blizzcon) but KEEP all of them afterwards, and just pick one of them to be active at a time (changeable with a talent tome perhaps, like essences).

If they really want to tie this to the covenants for me the best way would be to just make Venthyr ability be 25% stronger as a Venthyr compared to other and same for other covenants, Necro do 25% more with Necro ability etc. That would only affect a few players, those that can actually pull 100% of their class/spec with other players not even noticing any difference.