Covenant Abilities... this looks BAD...

[Gestopft]

The numbers don't have to be balanced right now, because it's alpha, but the problem here is that the basic idea behind the system is flawed.

I wouldn't say the idea is "flawed" because it's on the spectrum with a number of things that are or have been in game. Like the point that one of the other threads about this made: optimization and player choice have NEVER gone hand-in-hand. Players (that care about it) have always had to choose between being optimal and doing what they would prefer. The real 'issue' with this one is that the choice is more 'permanent' (and thus consequential) than others.

We have seen over and over again how the community deals with choices. We have seen how blizzard reacts to imbalances. Both of that doesnt work with a system where you tie yourself to a faction.

When people say they want "choices" they mostly mean "I want MY preferences to be optimal" or "I want choices to be basically meaningless so I can change quickly and easily when 'optimal' does." You are right about the community: despite players SAYING repeatedly that they want 'meaningful choices,' players tend to also be very resistant to choices actually having any consequences. Not always the same players of course. As for me, I'll consider it a good job if balance is reasonably close, with each ability having certain content or situations where it's more useful.

[VinceVega]

INB4 comments saying, "Got to wait for fine tuning and testing".

Look where that got us in BFA, nothing has changed since beta, we were given shitty azerite armor and horrible class design.

Don't get your hopes up, expect these "rental" abilities to be absolute shit. There will always be a bis ability and a go to for pvp.

Of course they did something. It took way to long yes but they did something. Azerite Gear with your best traits is so easy to come by now they have been my first pieces i got which i will not change until shadowlands.
Also yes, of course you need to wait for tuning and testing.... that is the whole reason for the alpha and beta phase.
Also you have to wait for someone to ACTUALLY use them... as no one ever did for now.

AND: They did not comment on their first statement from back in November that changing will be difficult. No one knows what they plan to do here.

Maybe wait a bit for testing to at least START before jumping into bashing the game again... sometimes it feels like MMO-Champion Users want the game to fail...

[Zaganite]

People judging a system no one has gotten to use yet. Why am I not surprised! They literally said in their blue post nothing is final and yes I know we've been burned in the past but I'm willing to give this a shot and see what happens with these abilities

[GreenJesus]

Although now they are making a point about better communication and feedback loops.

Lol they have been developing wow for 15 years. Pretty pathetic if you ask me if they are just now creating feedback loops.

[Gestopft]

Playing with suboptimal talents has always been a reason to remove underperforming people from groups. Covenant Ability will be no different.

We'll have to see. If switching covenants really is particularly involved, I think anyone asking for 'optimal' covenant choices in content that isn't cutting-edge mythic raiding will have a hard time putting groups together.

[kamuimac]

So here's the thing: covenant abilities not balanced doesn't matter for 90% of players, they will choose whatever they like most.

It matters for competetive players in higher mythic+ or organized raids. Minority in the game, loud majority on forums.

problem is that these non-competitive players blindly copy what cutting edge people do .

and thats the problem

[Niwes]

How do they intend to balance this? The abilities have such HUGE differences that will result in one being far better than the other three. Did Ion not see this coming?

After the disaster of BfA class design, this has got me worried. Will Shadowlands also have massive issues with class design now?

tbh: its horrible and completely leads to all the horror ppl are afraid of.

this will just end in a loose:loose situation. stupid blizz.

[Shinrael]

Well put!

Also, what was really wrong with BFA gearing? I only see the neck level being what burnt me out a bit. Having to grind it to dust to unlock powers in armour or neckless. Except for that, I really enjoy the gear in BFA, especially corruption which in my opinion is the best item system we've ever had (albeight not flawless).

Personally, I enjoyed multiple aspects of Azerite gear and Essences. For the no-lifers and min-maxers out there, it was a bit too much because you know... they know no boundaries. They want to consume everything on the spot and that leaves them burnt out. I know patience and self-control, I know to do what I enjoy, when I enjoy it and thus I had no problem with the system. But I do understand why min-maxing mythic raiders and key pushers might have been fucked up by this system. Because it required them to mindlessly grind Islands. But the majority of people aren't on their level so they should just learn some self-control and quit whining.

I also really like Corruption, again not perfect as you said, but yeah, it made gear quite a bit interesting for me - and I rarely take interest in gear and competitiveness.

[Niwes]

Who the fuck asked for this kind of crap system????

nobody. not. a. single. person.

but:

its cheap. like all their „systems“. because a few icons, spell mechanics in class code and foremost only DB entries are just way cheaper than real content. so they go for it. imo.

and it helps keeping ppl subbed.

[Pandragon]

The entire point of them is you can use them everywhere.

No, the point is picking the covenant that you want. Letting these be used everywhere negates that choice and makes you pick what ever sims the highest.

[Tarba]

lmao what, "why is this early, not-balance-tweaked version of the abilities so out of whack?" <- This is you.

You started wow last month?
Blizz does something retarted, players complain about it during beta, some ...people... says "lol that's just beta". Shit goes out live like that.


Like how this system sucks completely.
That's ever worse than what they did before. With legion legendaries well you still had a chance to get the good one after a time. After a lot of complains about the diminish chances to loot one.
System was retarted until the last patch.

With azerith well it's just again pure random. Nothing gameplay changer, so pretty bland, but you still have to loot the good ones. Meh.

Here you decide at the start wich one you'll need. Then they'll make some changes on it, making your choice biased. And you have to stick with it for all kind of activities and specs.
That's a new level of retard.

[VinceVega]

nobody. not. a. single. person.

but:

its cheap. like all their „systems“. because a few icons, spell mechanics in class code and foremost only DB entries are just way cheaper than real content. so they go for it. imo.

and it helps keeping ppl subbed.

What the hell is "real content" in your opinion then?

[Quaade]

People said this about Azerite gear for months without any response from the devs.

Expect these to be just as bad.

The difference this time is that the devs seem much more willing to give up their emotional sunk cost. One of the earlier statements said that classes would receive no great changes and now it's that a lot of classes will see massive changes. Something has changed in the attitudes of the devs as they seem to have backed down on the "we know best" arrogance into a lot more humble "we'll listen to what the players have to say and consider changes." Perhaps Ion got a good dressing down from the people in charge of him. I know that I would have given him one for his arrogant attitude towards every non-dev out there when it came to WoW.

[Delever]

Literally imagine picking something that sims 2% higher instead of the one you like cosmetic wise assuming you re not a world first racer. I m picking Kyrian for my paladin no matter what cause I want those f*ing wings.

[Lahis]

Lol they have been developing wow for 15 years. Pretty pathetic if you ask me if they are just now creating feedback loops.

Sometimes during the last few expansions they got firmly set into their "We are Blizzard. We are mighty. We can do no wrong." mindset and lost the view to the playerbase from atop of their high ivory towers.

[Nervyz]

With how Azerite Turned out, then essences and then the fix for WF/TF that was sold as 'removing RNG' but actually added another layer, this is the first aspect of shadowlands that's got me severely worried and I'm pretty sure we're going to see more of the casino system in SL as well.

Even if it's not Alpha, you can already see how broken and uninspired this stuff is going to feel and be, unless they make it so you can change covenant before every bossfight in raids, every m+ and every arena match this is going to lead to so much frustration. This will be kicking WoW even further down than BFA.

Sure, they might improve some stuff left right and center, but the community needs something significant after the unkept promises and failures = the disgrace that is BFA. From what I hear and read, barely anyone wants features such as these, tied to a covenant or xyz. Instead, add these in a talent tree and make covenants solely for cosmetics and gimicky stuff.

Every xpac, there were at least multiple things I got excited about pre-release. So far, apart from the returning class-abilities for SL (which we also need to take with a pinch of salt until more info is released) this is the very first time in over 15 years that I'm like 'mehh' and I believe a very vast amount of the community feels this way.

I Hope, I really hope, they will get it right, but tbh, so far it's not looking good -to me at least-. It is still early, that's true, so I hope to be getting info that gets me excited.

[MrLachyG]

They will obviously not be balanced, You can't have 52 new abilities put into the game that all do different things balanced.

If Blizzard gives us the power to swap between covenants then its a non issue

they have said that we will be able to swap between covenants but it's not going to be like changing talents, it might be a bit involved

[Zephire]

Personally, I enjoyed multiple aspects of Azerite gear and Essences. For the no-lifers and min-maxers out there, it was a bit too much because you know... they know no boundaries. They want to consume everything on the spot and that leaves them burnt out. I know patience and self-control, I know to do what I enjoy, when I enjoy it and thus I had no problem with the system. But I do understand why min-maxing mythic raiders and key pushers might have been fucked up by this system. Because it required them to mindlessly grind Islands. But the majority of people aren't on their level so they should just learn some self-control and quit whining.

I also really like Corruption, again not perfect as you said, but yeah, it made gear quite a bit interesting for me - and I rarely take interest in gear and competitiveness.

Indeed, it's the grind then? Not the gear in it self?

I once had a meeting at work. We were talking about things to improve and I asked "Okay, so what if we had said system without these bad things, would that work?" and they answered like "No, because then the bad things would cause this and that". I replied: "Yeah, but I said that the bad things would not exsist". After some back and fourth they finally realized that yes, they wanted the same system but without the bad things. It was very difficult to get to that point.

Also, I forgot about essences… Loved the challange some presented, hated the timegating. Like, why would I not be able to do hardmode Mecha as many times as I'd want during a week? It was fun, but instead of playing it more, I just waited. Quite boring. I mean, I'm paying and still I have to wait.

[Arkthugal]

No, the point is picking the covenant that you want. Letting these be used everywhere negates that choice and makes you pick what ever sims the highest.

Well, the plan is for you to be able to use them anywhere. Get over it.

[Lolites]

It is a valid concern since they did no testing of azerite gear in the last alpha/beta and took zero input on various systems.

well and thats the thing, we didnt see azerite armor till almost end of beta, we have covenant abilities BEFORE release of alpha... so obviously, they want as much time to tweak it as possible rather than just slaping it in at the last moment hoping for the best...