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  1. #261
    Any math guy can explain to me the Night Fae druid spell's impact for each role? Is it an absolutely massive DPS nuke the likes I've never experienced before, or does it look way better than it is?

    Edit: assuming a relatively normal CD, that is

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    Because in an RPG I want my character to be meaningfully distinct from other characters.
    I know mine is... it has unobtainable transmog and mounts. I don't see picking talents as impactful choices that should be tied behind long grinds to change.I don't think your going to convince me either because im just going to tear your reasoning apart again and again as you slowly are reduced to your weird emotional argument defending a system that feel out of favor with single player rpgs a decade ago.

    I am honestly struggling to name a game in the past six years in the genre that really pushed locking in talents.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    It's not just a talent row. It's two abilities and a progression system that gives other benefits. You want to define it as a talent row because that helps your argument, but doubling down on something so obviously not true just shows how bad faith your argument is.

    You don't just join the covenant, get one ability, and then never interact with it again. That's not how the system works.
    It is just a talent row. It works like talents, it smells like talents. and it tastes like talents just seasoned with a derpy grind.

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Laughingjack View Post
    I know mine is... it has unobtainable transmog and mounts. I don't see picking talents as impactful choices that should be tied behind long grinds to change.I don't think your going to convince me either because im just going to tear your reasoning apart again and again as you slowly are reduced to your weird emotional argument defending a system that feel out of favor with single player rpgs a decade ago.

    I am honestly struggling to name a game in the past six years in the genre that really pushed locking in talents.
    I want gameplay customization, not cosmetic customization.

    If you don't care about gameplay customization, that's fine: Pick the min-max best choice and go fuck off and stop trying to take the system away from the rest of us.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Laughingjack View Post
    It is just a talent row. It works like talents, it smells like talents. and it tastes like talents just seasoned with a derpy grind.
    Can you name a talent that gives you two abilities, and then also gives you access to a separate talent progression system that gives other boosts?
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
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  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    And if every character of every class has handed a complete set of every piece of equipment you can possibly have, with the ability to carry it all and change it on the fly, that would be a compelling and interesting point.
    But you have to quest through covenants and unlock their powers progressively through anima power. Why shouldn't players be able to unlock all of them and then switch between their abilities whenever they want to?

    Damn, it's almost as if it's only ""customization"" to you if there's an arbitrary barrier involved.

  5. #265
    24h after the announce a new feature, a forum post titled "X look BAD", classic mmo-champion
    MMO-Champion, once the place to get WoW News, now the home of the haters and their clickbait and doomsaying threads

  6. #266
    Over 9000! Lahis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    Isn't that literally what you guys are here to argue? You are saying that it is unfair to force you to choose between picking the FUN covenant and picking the OPTIMAL covenant. YOUR argument is that optimization is distinct from fun, and that is why you are upset.
    Picking the optimized Covenant is 100% the right thing to do. It will suck though that it will come with story you don't care about and customization that is too ugly to wear.

    If we could just choose the ability and looks we wanted.

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    I want gameplay customization, not cosmetic customization.

    If you don't care about gameplay customization, that's fine: Pick the min-max best choice and go fuck off and stop trying to take the system away from the rest of us.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Can you name a talent that gives you two abilities, and then also gives you access to a separate talent progression system that gives other boosts?
    I mean you want arbitrary walls in front of customization... I don't think you want actual customization or at least unrestricted customization... A player who changes their spec and talents every time they swap content is customizing their character far more often then you it seems.

    For your second point its called talents in general. You pick a spec that unlocks baseline abilities then you pick talents from that. You are literally discribing how spec and talents currently work trying to refute that this isn't a new talent row.

    Change the word "Spec" with "covenant" and talent with... covenant talent and the systems line up 1 to 1....

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by Zequill View Post
    24h after the announce a new feature, a forum post titled "X look BAD", classic mmo-champion
    Maybe because after 15 years of playing this every day, we know how this plays out...

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by Dungo View Post
    How do they intend to balance this? The abilities have such HUGE differences that will result in one being far better than the other three. Did Ion not see this coming?

    After the disaster of BfA class design, this has got me worried. Will Shadowlands also have massive issues with class design now?
    speak for yourself lol i loved Fury in BFA besides not having shockwave or 1shot kill macro from legion. People are such crybabies jeez

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    Picking the optimized Covenant is 100% the right thing to do. It will suck though that it will come with story you don't care about and customization that is too ugly to wear.

    If we could just choose the ability and looks we wanted.
    You literally just said that you don't want to choose between power and fun.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  11. #271
    Over 9000! Lahis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    if you have a choice between doing job that fulfils you, that you like, and you make solid money OR you would get 20% more money for job that you hate, which would you choose?
    i know some people would choose the later, but that doesnt mean its right or good choice...
    Who even gets to choose between jobs these days?

    Fuck, soon there will be no jobs for anybody.

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by Zequill View Post
    24h after the announce a new feature, a forum post titled "X look BAD", classic mmo-champion
    always happens

  13. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    i can do enough dps with frost, so why would i play the spec i hate? if we clear the content, why would it be the issue that i had 5-10% lower dps than i could with unholy?
    This.

    My death knight is frost. I don't care if under exacting simulated situations unholy does better or Method says they won't take a Frost to their world first (not saying they've ever said that, it's a made up example, not an accusation).

    I do enough DPS to do well in the content I do, and I like Frost, and I don't like Unholy. So I'm playing Frost. Besides, I'm not playing this stupid game of FotM Class/Spec combo. Next patch, they might nerf Unholy and buff Frost. Am I supposed to respec and relearn every patch for some stupid margin that's only visible at the most extreme of content?
    Putin khuliyo

  14. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by Laughingjack View Post
    I mean you want arbitrary walls in front of customization... I don't think you want actual customization or at least unrestricted customization... A player who changes their spec and talents every time they swap content is customizing their character far more often then you it seems.
    That's not customization. That's a demonstration of a lack of customization.

    For your second point its called talents in general. You pick a spec that unlocks baseline abilities then you pick talents from that. You are literally discribing how spec and talents currently work trying to refute that this isn't a new talent row.

    Change the word "Spec" with "covenant" and talent with... covenant talent and the systems line up 1 to 1....
    I'll ask again: Can you name a talent that gives you two abilities, and then also gives you access to a separate talent progression system that gives other boosts?

    Here are the effects of being in a covenent:
    1. You get a covenant ability.
    2. You get a covenant class ability.
    3. You get access to at least three soulbinds, which are each unique talent trees that you can switch between.
    4. You get some form of other boost in the world (for maladraxus its a customized abomination that follows you)

    And that's just what we know about.

    That's not "one talent row", no matter how many times you repeat it.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    Absolutely. Scrap the idea. Replace the essence and azerite system with... nothing. Just have gear that does what it's supposed do and classes that have enough spells at launch. You know, like they used to have.
    Yep, those could all be added in as talent tiers basically. I would keep the covenant specific ones for all classes of that covenant but the class ones should jsut be new talents that we don't have to grind to death for.
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  16. #276
    Over 9000! Lahis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zlygork View Post
    Any math guy can explain to me the Night Fae druid spell's impact for each role? Is it an absolutely massive DPS nuke the likes I've never experienced before, or does it look way better than it is?

    Edit: assuming a relatively normal CD, that is
    Moonfire and Wrath aren't that good spells. Real damage comes from Starsurge. And it even might waste casts on worthless shit like Ironfur.

    It probably looks better on paper than it will actually be.

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    Who even gets to choose between jobs these days?

    Fuck, soon there will be no jobs for anybody.
    dont even get into this topic i planed to quit mine as i could afford couple months of searching for better and BAM, corona happened and i wouldnt be able to get any interview so lucky i was postponing it

  18. #278
    Over 9000! Lahis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    I want gameplay customization, not cosmetic customization.

    If you don't care about gameplay customization, that's fine: Pick the min-max best choice and go fuck off and stop trying to take the system away from the rest of us.
    AND THEREIN LIES THE PROBLEM. This system messes cosmetic customization with gameplay customization. People who want best gameplay can't get cosmetic customization, and people who want cosmetics can't get best gameplay.

  19. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    That's not customization. That's a demonstration of a lack of customization.



    I'll ask again: Can you name a talent that gives you two abilities, and then also gives you access to a separate talent progression system that gives other boosts?

    Here are the effects of being in a covenent:
    1. You get a covenant ability.
    2. You get a covenant class ability.
    3. You get access to at least three soulbinds, which are each unique talent trees that you can switch between.
    4. You get some form of other boost in the world (for maladraxus its a customized abomination that follows you)

    And that's just what we know about.

    That's not "one talent row", no matter how many times you repeat it.
    Picking fire spec gives me abilities and picking talents gives me a second... to quote a famous movie


  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    AND THEREIN LIES THE PROBLEM. This system messes cosmetic customization with gameplay customization. People who want best gameplay can't get cosmetic customization, and people who want cosmetics can't get best gameplay.
    "best gameplay" and "min maxed" aren't the same thing.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

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