Mega-Thread: Democratic 2020 Primaries

[I Push Buttons]

And that's how 2016 was lost.

This thread has not changed one bit.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

As I said previously in this thread.

I'm a white male from a relatively well off family... I hate Trump and want Biden to win, but I will sail through the next four years all right regardless of what happens; the stakes aren't particularly high for me.

If Bernout 'progressives' want to fuck over all their minority allies who will have their rights, if not their very lives jeopardized by Trump getting re-elected just so they can stick it to the Democrat establishment for not kowtowing to them, that's on them, not me.

If BernieBros want to go the 2016 route and spear the election for Democrats, by all means, have fun both figuratively and quite possibly even literally killing your minority/female 'allies' through your actions and your actions alone.

[rrayy]

No argument there. Everyone not a member of the Republican party or just a general Trump supporter should be rallying behind Biden to present their own united front, they'll need it. And if they just cba voting for Biden, they should still go vote down ballot because that shit is just as important.

Wrong. People should vote for who they want to vote for, not who you tell them to vote for.

[cubby]

Except its not about what was said in the past, its what is still being said even now.

Look at this, for example:
https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/co...20_democratic/

/r/politics's megathread on Bernard's campaign ending.

50,000 comments in the last two hours, and seemingly most of them are fringe leftists REEEEing and carrying on about how the country is fucked and how they will never vote for Biden.

Fuck BernieBros.

You should be aware that Russian Troll farms are targeting those forums and social media areas to push a divide. Most/all Sanders' supporters claiming that they will not vote for Biden "ever" in the General Election are doing the same.

[Lenonis]

Honestly, it seems that few people on any side are particularly happy with the situation, at least in this thread.

And in real life. At best Biden is the comfortable choice for people who really liked Obama. He's the island of normalcy in a sea of Trumpesque insanity.

But he's not exciting. Not to a vast majority of people.

IMO we don't have a moderate vs progressive vs liberal vs whatever issue now. We have a idealist vs pragmatist issue. People who feel like they are obligated to either vote their heart or to burn the system down to try to force their issues vs people who understand the danger 4 more years of Trump would cause and would literally vote for any democrat over letting Trump get a chance to skew the judiciary to the hard right for decades.

I don't know how that gap will be bridged. My hope is the political ideologues won't be a big enough factor to let Trump win. I also hope enough of the former Trump voters will just stay home to make the balance.

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Wrong. People should vote for who they want to vote for, not who you tell them to vote for.

Fine. Then they should also own the ramification and consequences of that vote (or lack thereof) and stop pretending there aren't any or that it's someone else's fault they are voting the way they are.

[beanman12345]

Honestly, the thread should be closed anyway, there are no more primaries to be had, no?

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Near enough what I said, yes.

Vote Biden if you want the best chance of getting rid of Trump.
Vote 3rd party if you wish to be irrelevant but feel morally superior.
Vote Trump if you want 4 more years of madness.
Don't vote for any presidential candidate but still vote down ballot.
Stay home and don't bother doing a fucking thing but still bitch and moan about what happens.

Take your pick.

For the record, I expect Trump to get a second term anyway. No matter who was the Democratic candidate. Incumbent advantage and all that.

There are still primaries yes, just not for the presidency. But since the presidency is the entirety of the discussion in this thread, no reason to keep it open no.

[rrayy]

Fine. Then they should also own the ramification and consequences of that vote (or lack thereof) and stop pretending there aren't any or that it's someone else's fault they are voting the way they are.

Well, of course. I'm not saying people shouldn't.

[Theodarzna]

Getting ride of Trump doesn't do a thing to address the underlying problems throughout our government institutions. It only sets America up for a more competent Trump like figure in 4 to 8 years.

It's up to Biden to win now, and his job to get as many votes as possible. Seems like the whole election is going to come down if there is enough NeverTrumpers..

Almost no one seems excited to vote for him, and he is polling worse than Clinton did against Trump in 2016. People say this isn't 2016, and they are right. In 2016 Trump wasn't the incumbent, and that comes with it's own advantage.

I hope Biden wins, but I won't be donating or campaigning for him like I have for Bernie. Biden has done nothing to make me want to vote for him if anything he has done the exact opposite. If he picks another corporate tool as VP than he would have lost my vote. Of course I have that luxury living in a state that will vote for the Democrat no matter who it is in the General Election.

What? You mean you are not going to support a different pathological liar who’s a puppet of Wall Street with a history of war mongering, screwing workers, attacking civil liberties, harassing women, and has a Pharma guy running his campaign, while suffering from dementia!? BUTTTTTTT BUTTTTT ORANGE MAN!!?!??! YOU GOTTA VOTE FOR THIS TO STOP ORANGE MAN!

[Machismo]

Studies in 2016 showed that Hillary supporters were MORE toxic than Bernie Bros, and those Hillary supporters mostly went to Warren or Biden, so...

It makes sense considering that Hillary Hoes were the ones who started the “Obama is Muslim/Kenyan” conspiracy

Evidence, please.

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What? You mean you are not going to support a different pathological liar who’s a puppet of Wall Street with a history of war mongering, screwing workers, attacking civil liberties, harassing women, and has a Pharma guy running his campaign, while suffering from dementia!? BUTTTTTTT BUTTTTT ORANGE MAN!!?!??! YOU GOTTA VOTE FOR THIS TO STOP ORANGE MAN!

You mean the pathological liar you support?

[Telogrus]

Evidence, please.

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You mean the pathological liar you support?

https://www.politico.com/blogs/on-me...-online-222912

[Lenonis]

https://www.politico.com/blogs/on-me...-online-222912

So...twitter is real now?

[Sunseeker]

Semantics. You know what I was getting at.

Someone sitting the election out is a net effect of +1 to the other side. Someone voting for the other side in a rage is a net effect of +2 to the other side.

Status quo: 100 R, 100 D
D voter sits out: 100 R, 99 D - Net +1 to R
D voter votes R: 101 R, 99 D - Net +2 to R

I think you knew that though...

The idea that subtraction results in addition makes my math bone hurt.

Imagine needing to go the semantics route.

Semantics are important. It's how language words. Otherwise all you have is meaningless rhetorical gobbly-gook.

If you're going to say something, say it right. Otherwise don't say it at all.

Yes it's semantics, yes I'm being pedantic. But this "with us or against us" nonsense is both harmful to democracy and common mathematics.

----------
Anyway, Bernie is out, so this thread doesn't serve any real purpose now.

[Deadite]

You mean the pathological liar you support?

You not following the thread? Doesn't matter if you think your sides guy is a piece of shit. You have to vote him or you are helping the other side.

This is what American politics is like now....

[Lenonis]

The idea that subtraction results in addition makes my math bone hurt.

It's the difference between -1 to a side and -1 to a side and +1 to the other.

[cubby]

The idea that subtraction results in addition makes my math bone hurt.

Lol, I hear you there. Election math sucks for a variety of reasons.

Anyway, Bernie is out, so this thread doesn't serve any real purpose now.

Agreed. Thread should be closed now.

[Sunseeker]

It's the difference between -1 to a side and -1 to a side and +1 to the other.

Again, the other side doesn't increase. Your side has decreased. There is a net loss to the system.

I get the math and I get the rhetoric. What you are saying is the latter, not the former.

----
To clarify, I have no problem with the argument that sitting out makes it easier for the other side to win. What I have a problem with is saying that refusal to play the game is tantamount to playing for the other side.

The other side has plenty of bullshit and rhetoric. If we win by using their tactics then we haven't really won. They have, by making us into them.

[Telogrus]

So...twitter is real now?

All of the Bernie Bro complaints were about online toxicity

[beanman12345]

Again, the other side doesn't increase. Your side has decreased. There is a net loss to the system.

I get the math and I get the rhetoric. What you are saying is the latter, not the former.

----
To clarify, I have no problem with the argument that sitting out makes it easier for the other side to win. What I have a problem with is saying that refusal to play the game is tantamount to playing for the other side.

The other side has plenty of bullshit and rhetoric. If we win by using their tactics then we haven't really won. They have, by making us into them.

If this was a vaccuum I'd agree with you, but republicans literal strategy is for people not to vote, hence them getting off on voter suppression. People actively choosing not to vote, is playing into their strategy to win.

[Sunseeker]

If this was a vaccuum I'd agree with you, but republicans literal strategy is for people not to vote, hence them getting off on voter suppression. People actively choosing not to vote, is playing into their strategy to win.

Fair, assuming they're aware of that strategy.

[Machismo]

https://www.politico.com/blogs/on-me...-online-222912

So, Trump supporters are the worst, according to you.

I also noticed the date... before he actually lost. My, how times have changed. But hey, it's good to know you feel Trump supporters are the worst.

[Machismo]

You not following the thread? Doesn't matter if you think your sides guy is a piece of shit. You have to vote him or you are helping the other side.

This is what American politics is like now....

Nah, I'm never going to support a racist piece of shit like Trump.