New Bolvar Model looks rad, but after the trailer I do not care about him anymore

[Varodoc]

First of all, why would I?
Second, it was you who said that:


I didn't say it.



They are not, don't be blind. Eradicating all life versus killing all the people who doesn't praise the light? That's not the same.



Yes, suddenly holy paladin decided to kill the red dragons just for fun. Get a grip.

Anyway, because it seems that you like to nit-pick everything else, because you cannot counter the prime topic of the discussion - LK Bolvar was evil. That's a fact.

You literally asked:

Anyway, how is uholding cosmic balance considered as a good thing? Why?

The phrase you quoted was me making fun of you asking why it should be considered a good thing to uphold the cosmic balance.

Sylvanas and Arthas are doing the exact same thing and literally use the same words. "In the end, all will serve Death, all will serve me" (exact words that Arthas says in Halls of Reflection).

And yes, the Lightbound are also trying to do something similar, because they want to cleanse the entire cosmos, which means that the Light would dominate the cosmos and thus break the balance. They will not stop until everyone has embraced the Light. Yrel's direct words: "No more division. No more defiance. In the Light, we shall be one."

And no, he still wasn't evil even if he killed a bunch of dragons. Since he still sought to preserve the cosmic balance and disapproved of Sylvanas' evil actions during the Fourth War, which blatantly broke the balance. Also, I don't remember Bolvar killing any dragon. First of all, it was the PC who did that and he had free will, second Bolvar tells the PC that he can either kill or spare the dragons, and third that was part of Bolvar's plan to help the PC take the new mount which would help in the fight against the Legion, he didn't do it for shit and giggles.

Sorry, Lich King Bolvar was not evil and was never presented as such. I am also not nitpicking anything, I am stating basic story facts that anyone who paid attention to BfA should know. You might want to play your toon more, because clearly you missed the Vol'jin urn questline.

[DemonHunter18]

Not sure that sort of thing is a bad thing, after all if she wasnt as powerful as the new Lich King what would be the incentive to defeat her? I think people would equally be complaining she is weak. They need to make her a threat.

People talk about Bolvar like he is Arthas.

Fuck even Arthas was defeated by Sylvanas. So who knows :P

Couldn't find the original, so you get the reforged version (sorry) :P

yeah, it's not like here

1. Arthas literally just got more weakened
2. he was surrounded
3. Sylvanas used a sneak attack with a poison arrow

yep, it's clearly the same as in SL cinematic.

[Rotted]

Of course Bolvar is not a full empowered Arthas, but in the last expansions he was slowly build up as this scheming figure that slowly powered up in the background. We didn't really know how powerful he had become, neither his physical abilities nor his tactical "genius".
In the trailer everything was revealed: He and a complete army of undead stand no change against Sylvanas (not even close) and he was not prepared for her strike at all.
He was reduced to a complete wimp and I completely lost all interest in his character.
How do you see him? Do you think it still makes sense to make him apparently a central figure in Shadowlands?

Makes me face palm every time.

Right so two things,

1) you said yourself unprepared
2) Shes not stronger than him, she was empowered and she had a strategy. All she did was deflect and dodge, she didn't take a hit because she'd have been flattened instantly.

[Orby]

yeah, it's not like here

1. Arthas literally just got more weakened
2. he was surrounded
3. Sylvanas used a sneak attack with a poison arrow

yep, it's clearly the same as in SL cinematic.

Yea but if this happened in WoW people would bitch about it regardless, even if Arthas was weakened, even though Bolvar is weaker than Arthas we would still bitch that he was defeated so easily so I honestly think its exactly the same

People are not upset that Bolvar was defeated they are upset that it was Sylvanas that did it and no one likes Sylvannas. (Hell I don't like Sylvanas either. bloody Kerrigan rip off)

[DemonHunter18]

Yea but if this happened in WoW people would bitch about it regardless, even if Arthas was weakened, even though Bolvar is weaker than Arthas was we still bitch that he was defeated so easily so I honestly think its exactly the same

do you blame people???

WoW's story went downhill since TBC.

[Orby]

do you blame people???

WoW's story went downhill since TBC.

If you can find the forums back when Warcraft 3 was released you'd see people bitch about that games lore and retcons too. Trust me, the rose tinted goggles around Warcraft 3 is ridiculous, even though I loved Warcraft 3, many old school RTS players did not. I still remember people calling Arthas an Anakin rip off xD

[Aleksej89]

Whoever designed the bolvar v sylvanas cinematic can go clean the gutters cause he aint for anything better.

[DemonHunter18]

If you can find the forums back when Warcraft 3 was released you'd see people bitch about that games lore and retcons too. Trust me, the rose tinted goggles around Warcraft 3 is ridiculous, even though I loved Warcraft 3, many old school RTS players did not. I still remember people calling Arthas and Anakin rip off xD

WC3 didn't have a God tier story but it was more consistent and it had a nice world building.

then came World of Retcons with bad characterizations and retcons and everything they do build is done via retcons.

WC should have stayed as an RTS IMO if they really wanted story consistency.

[BreakerOfWills]

The mantle of the lich king allows them to control the scourge

The power of the lich king comes from killing people and consuming their souls with frostmourne

There is no frostmourne for Bolvar, he hasn't killed millions twice over(once in a war to ascend to the frozen throne and a second wave of war to destroy azeroth)

Sylvanas in the meantime has been(in game) making deals with entities and enslaving valkyr for power, and slaughtering innocents up to and including burning down the home of the night elf race. You can say what you like about the quality of the writing in WoW(it's fantasy B movie stuff through and through) but it's pretty clear that Sylvanas has been gathering power while Bolvar has been largely static(and no killing a couple red dragons doesn't somehow equate to slaughtering millions of mortals with no frostmourne to store their souls in)

[Kokolums]

Yeah, I hate when the writers just do that. I mean "to show how powerful our next enemy is we will just see how easily he defeat the previous enemy!".

That's bad writing.

Incorrect. Its bad writing if the heroes crush everything in their path. You like fiction meant for children. In adult fiction, the heroes don't always win. Did you complain that Star Wars sucked because Vader killed Obi-Wan in episode 4?

[Poppets]

At one point in Legion as a DK I got the hint that he threatened my character with unleashing the Undead against Azeroth if we didnt listen to him. He didnt play fair or nice, and his reason for raising the 4 horseman were flawed. For the Fire mage artifact, players must venture into ICC, where they find that the Lich King is menacing and has already killed several explorers that have ventured into his domain. Thats right HE killed them, as were told there has to be a Lich King to control the undead, he is in controll of what they do, look how they acted when Sylvanas approached the Citadel in Shadowlands trailer. he also threatens the player character when we go to seek an answer to who raised Vol'jin.
Even now, before he looses his helm he is making new dks, that have to swear fealty to HIM, not Azeroth, there is no legion to fight, not to "preserve" balance, so what are his reasons now to make a new army? He speaks of unbalance but raises more DK's that are loyal to him, that sounds an aweful lot alike Sylvanace except he isnt attributed to any faction. Bolvar as the new Lich King was not a "good" guy, maybe knocking him round and taking his crown brings him back to his senses.
Sorry was a bit off topic, just cant stand it when there is a misunderstanding of "good" and "bad" , it isnt good bolvar vs bad sylvanas, both are very dark and twisted creatures.

[Varodoc]

At one point in Legion as a DK I got the hint that he threatened my character with unleashing the Undead against Azeroth if we didnt listen to him. He didnt play fair or nice, and his reason for raising the 4 horseman were flawed. For the Fire mage artifact, players must venture into ICC, where they find that the Lich King is menacing and has already killed several explorers that have ventured into his domain. Thats right HE killed them, as were told there has to be a Lich King to control the undead, he is in controll of what they do, look how they acted when Sylvanas approached the Citadel in Shadowlands trailer. he also threatens the player character when we go to seek an answer to who raised Vol'jin.
Even now, before he looses his helm he is making new dks, that have to swear fealty to HIM, not Azeroth, there is no legion to fight, not to "preserve" balance, so what are his reasons now to make a new army? He speaks of unbalance but raises more DK's that are loyal to him, that sounds an aweful lot alike Sylvanace except he isnt attributed to any faction. Bolvar as the new Lich King was not a "good" guy, maybe knocking him round and taking his crown brings him back to his senses.
Sorry was a bit off topic, just cant stand it when there is a misunderstanding of "good" and "bad" , it isnt good bolvar vs bad sylvanas, both are very dark and twisted creatures.

I mean, he literally says in the DK new intro: "A time of great destruction approaches as Death's power grows. Now more than ever, we must rise to the defense of Azeroth." but okay. He increased his ranks precisely to combat this new threat and even commends you for your sacrifice, noting how that sets you apart from the masses.

[Scottyjscizzle]

"Updated Azeroth looks rad, but after the Cataclysm trailer I do not care about her anymore. Deathwing owned her."

"Orcs and Humans are rad, but after the Mists trailer I do not care about them anymore. Chen owned them."

Game trailers/intros often are about the bad guys winning, stomping the 'good guys' with a sudden show of force.

First comparison is trash, might be comparable if Bolvar had literally been sleeping embryo and not had an army of undead on his side.

orcs/human soldiers who are literally just soldiers, having just washed up to shore post naval battle compared to the lich king.

and people aren't mad about him losing, they are mad they had him lose with zero visible effort, add on the fact people are just really getting tired of sylvanas, shes becoming like your bestfriends girlfriend he won't shut up about. We get it, shes super strong now strong enough her and saurfang got a professionally made cinematic of her beating him and baiting the horde meanwhile the literal final old god on the planet got a intern crafted poof of smoke as its end.

[DemonHunter18]

First comparison is trash, might be comparable if Bolvar had literally been sleeping embryo and not had an army of undead on his side.

orcs/human soldiers who are literally just soldiers, having just washed up to shore post naval battle compared to the lich king.

and people aren't mad about him losing, they are mad they had him lose with zero visible effort, add on the fact people are just really getting tired of sylvanas, shes becoming like your bestfriends girlfriend he won't shut up about. We get it, shes super strong now strong enough her and saurfang got a professionally made cinematic of her beating him and baiting the horde meanwhile the literal final old god on the planet got a intern crafted poof of smoke as its end.

imagine if Gallywix soloed LK and his army xd

do you think people would defend it with the He was amped so it's all good

[Orby]

WC3 didn't have a God tier story but it was more consistent and it had a nice world building.

then came World of Retcons with bad characterizations and retcons and everything they do build is done via retcons.

WC should have stayed as an RTS IMO if they really wanted story consistency.

If only, making it an MMO is fine if you wanted to take a exploration approach, as in 'Here's this world for you to explore, go about and explore with no effect on the lore'

And in vanilla it kind of was that, but TBC onward they changed that.

I would die for a Warcraft 4, although after Warcraft 3: Reforged I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard Excecs said "Oh look they don't want an RTS look how badly it did, no need to revisit it. Stick to the MMO format" now we're stuck with an MMO formula because its making Blizzard money.

[DemonHunter18]

If only, making it an MMO is fine if you wanted to take a exploration approach, as in 'Here's this world, for you to explore, go about and explore with no effect on the lore'

And in vanilla it kind of was that, but TBC onward they changed that.

I would die for a Warcraft 4, although after Warcraft 3: Reforged I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard Excecs said "Oh look they don't want an RTS look how badly it did, no need to revisit it. Stick to the MMO format" now we're stuck with an MMO formula because its making Blizzard money.

I mean, they even admitted that the story isn't all that important to them.

[Accendor]

On the bright side, people who cry 'REEEEEEE mary sue' every time a powerful female character comes along are doing us a favor: they're outing themselves as morons not worth listening to.

Before mods crucify me for that statement, let me clarify that I mean in general, not as a specific attack on anyone here.

Back to Bolvar, I also hope that he has an interesting story in Shadowlands but I'm not as confident in their storytelling after BFA, which was kind of a disjointed mess at points.

It really has nothing to do with her being female, Thrall was also a Mary Sue. The fact that you think this is about anti-feminism shows a lot about who you are.

[Rend Blackhand]

lol Bolvar was never powerful. He was a toasted no name stuck on a chair.

[Halfaheart]

Of course Bolvar is not a full empowered Arthas, but in the last expansions he was slowly build up as this scheming figure that slowly powered up in the background. We didn't really know how powerful he had become, neither his physical abilities nor his tactical "genius".
In the trailer everything was revealed: He and a complete army of undead stand no change against Sylvanas (not even close) and he was not prepared for her strike at all.
He was reduced to a complete wimp and I completely lost all interest in his character.
How do you see him? Do you think it still makes sense to make him apparently a central figure in Shadowlands?

Sylvanas is powered up by the jailer who's been drawing the power of every soul that's been sent there for years. The LK helmet is only one piece of armor made from a forge in the shadowlands. It's not unreasonable that he got his shit rocked at all. I see him getting his redemption in the end though which will be well deserved. Just let it play out man

[ravenmoon]

Yeah, I hate when the writers just do that. I mean "to show how powerful our next enemy is we will just see how easily he defeat the previous enemy!".

That's bad writing.



>10 years of building up just to show us how powerful has Sylvanas become = Blizzard writing at finest xD

Welcome to what they did with the night elves. All that amazing pre-lore, calling htem titanic race, global spanning empire, toe to toe with the legion they defeat.. and then WotA - crappy time travel .. and every time they wanted to show how powerful new race or person was.. it was night elves that were the victims.

Oh look. Garrosh is very powerful and the horde are mighty, they even crush the night elves
Oh look,.. Varian is great and the worgen are awesome, they even rescue the damsel in distress night elves
Oh look .. Sylvanas is muh evil and powerful, she killed all the night elves and beat Malfurion

Notice a trend?