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  1. #1

    How in the hell will WoW "go back to the social roots" of Vanilla...in Shadowlands?

    If you heard the recent Ion interview, he said if there is something we want to recreate from wow classic is the sense of community.
    He even said it to be "inspiring"

    (by the way, it felt good hearing Ion say that. This goes to all the haters who told me several times "there is no such thing as more sense of community in classic wow") - Ion disagrees

    Sorry for the "gotcha moment"

    But how in the world will they acomplish this?
    Is it even possible with cross realm tech, no trading, LFG tool, queues, etc?

    How in the world will they be able to recreate the "sense of community" of classic with this many tools we have today?

    Because, in my eyes, what made the sense of community in classic is the fact we had no tools...so we needed to bond because of it...

    ------------

    List of things that IMO made for a greater sense of community in Vanilla:

    1) Leveling
    Mob tagging for your own faction made you want to group up, otherwise you were fighting for resources with your own faction
    Also some zones have elite quests OR high density mobs inside houses where is mandatory to group up

    2) World Buffs
    There are discord communities with schedules for world buffs and the entire server gathers around at the same time in the city to be buffed

    3) Professions
    You needed to be friends with enchanters and other profession players

    4) Raiding
    There is no solo queue so you need to be social in order to receive raiding epics

    5) Server community
    Recognize the same faces, be the servers famous X player for doing/giving X thing
    Or be infamous by ganking the other faction in PvP

    6) Trading
    You can /trade any item with anyone you meet in the world
    Last edited by Roanda; 2020-04-10 at 01:30 AM.

  2. #2
    Scarab Lord Fawkess's Avatar
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    I think some improvements would be merging more servers, continuing with updates and improvements to communities, more incentives for playing with friends and making new ones, etc

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Riptor View Post
    I think some improvements would be merging more servers, continuing with updates and improvements to communities, more incentives for playing with friends and making new ones, etc
    In my opinion, if there is an option to be anti social...people will take it.

    Communities are a perfect example. Its an optional tool

    If they want the game to be social again...in my opinion it needs to be "mandatory" by design

    This is how i see it...kinda messed up if you think about it.
    Removing the option to be antisocial in order for the game to be social

    But IMO is the only way

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post

    (by the way, it felt good hearing Ion say that. This goes to all the haters who told me several times "there is no such thing as more sense of community in classic wow") - Ion disagrees

    Sorry for the "gotcha moment"
    ... and that's exactly why he said it. To rope people in with what sounds amazing and means nothing. Are you still asking yourself how Trump got elected? This is how, people being impressed by what sounds like a heartwarming recognition of their problem without committing to anything.

    What he means by that is you having to pick a covenant. You join a society, it's an active choice you make. It's the first time you do this outside of character creation. It will impact your perception and create a sense of community without actually limiting you in your choices, ability to play with friends, available trade goods and so on.

    "Sense of community", that one always makes me chuckle.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    In my opinion, if there is an option to be anti social...people will take it.

    Communities are a perfect example. Its an optional tool

    If they want the game to be social again...in my opinion it needs to be "mandatory" by design

    This is how i see it...kinda messed up if you think about it.
    Removing the option to be antisocial in order for the game to be social

    But IMO is the only way
    "I hate all these people enjoying the game the way they like. They are having fun wrong."

    Your sense of community is a sham, mate. There is no more or less of it in retail then there was in vanilla. People who wanted to be jolly in groups were jolly in groups back then, and they are jolly in groups now. And people who just joined groups out of necessity did so back then, and are still doing that now. The dungeon finder, LFR and so on only does one thing, it cuts out time you wasted spamming the LFG chat and traveling the same path for the 507th time.

  5. #5
    He's delusional.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Skulltaker View Post
    Your sense of community is a sham, mate.
    Ion disagrees and you are living in denial...or you just dont know any better.
    SO in your opinion Ion is lying...

    "I hate all these people enjoying the game the way they like. They are having fun wrong."
    Its just a human thing.
    People will always pick the path of least resistance if the option is available (for the most part)
    There is nothing wrong with that...if there is a road without obstacles for your objective...gamers will take it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    He's delusional.
    lol...even now people deny it i hope you are just messing with me...
    Or you simply dont know any better

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Ion disagrees and you are living in denial...or you just dont know any better.
    SO in your opinion Ion is lying...



    Its just a human thing.
    People will always pick the path of least resistance if the option is available (for the most part)
    There is nothing wrong with that...if there is a road without obstacles for your objective...gamers will take it.
    No, Ion is a salesman. He sells you the perception of something that never existed in the first place, at least not the way you think it did.

    Server community in Vanilla was based on necessity. Technical limitations, for the most part. And it had incredible downsides aswell. Ever waited 2 - 3 hours for an invite to Arathi? Or Alterac? I have. Oh what great fun unbalanced servers were. You think being outnumbered in warmode today is bad? Ha! Yeah, not being able to quest in Stranglethorn because of how drastically outnumbered your faction was was amazing.

    You used to recognize more players and their names back in Vanilla? Of course. Servers were a fraction of the size they are today.

    World of WarCraft was always designed to be enjoyable solo. It was one of the core design philosophies outlined by Jeff Kaplan, it was what distinguished WoW from the competition and probably contributed greatly to its success. Group content was optional. You could enjoy vast amounts of the game completely on your own. Sure, the game offered you more to do if you grouped up.

    And not a single thing has changed in the game since then, all it has done is trim away the fat of mechanics that just aren't viable in 2020 anymore. There is no mechanic in Retail that hinders you in enjoying the game the exact same way you did in Vanilla. If you force people to do something, you'll probably drive people away.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    In my opinion, if there is an option to be anti social...people will take it.

    Communities are a perfect example. Its an optional tool

    If they want the game to be social again...in my opinion it needs to be "mandatory" by design

    This is how i see it...kinda messed up if you think about it.
    Removing the option to be antisocial in order for the game to be social

    But IMO is the only way
    I mean... that's just human nature. Why share the reward for something you can accomplish by yourself? It's sad but true. Communities are only something people seek out to fulfill a want or a need. People don't necessarily enjoy forming meaningful bonds to solely benefit another person (it's why the character trope of the old hermit ninja god martial artist exists). Overcoming adversity is something humans enjoy, and coming together to overcome adversity that one human alone could not is also fun. It's the basic root of a community.

    Classic WoW has a better community only because it's so difficult for a solo player to accomplish anything by himself. Everything gets easier the more people and classes you know. Retail you can kinda just play by yourself a ton and get most things done.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Hctaz View Post
    I mean... that's just human nature. Why share the reward for something you can accomplish by yourself? It's sad but true. Communities are only something people seek out to fulfill a want or a need. People don't necessarily enjoy forming meaningful bonds to solely benefit another person (it's why the character trope of the old hermit ninja god martial artist exists). Overcoming adversity is something humans enjoy, and coming together to overcome adversity that one human alone could not is also fun. It's the basic root of a community.

    Classic WoW has a better community only because it's so difficult for a solo player to accomplish anything by himself. Everything gets easier the more people and classes you know. Retail you can kinda just play by yourself a ton and get most things done.
    Your post real speaks to me and i agree with everything said.
    I enjoy both games and was able to see their differences and separate the things i prefer from one to another one.
    I still prefer current WoW BUT i absolutely love the community thing classic has going on.

    1 sec while i edit my post with a list of things as to why classic has a better sense of cmmunity IMO

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Your post real speaks to me and i agree with everything said.
    I enjoy both games and was able to see their differences and separate the things i prefer from one to another one.
    I still prefer current WoW BUT i absolutely love the community thing classic has going on.

    1 sec while i edit my post with a list of things as to why classic has a better sense of cmmunity IMO
    I'm a player of both games myself so I totally am excited by some of the things they're doing in Retail.

    As soon as I saw that Warlocks would be getting corruption baseline but with a 2 sec cast time and then Affliction having the built in skill that makes it instant cast... also the restriction on melee AoE abilities.

    I main warrior in Classic and was just like... "Whirlwind only hits 5 targets max... I'm... I'm home."


    I think this is a good thing! As a warrior, you'll really value having a good mage friend for sustained AoE again instead of just being able to bladestorm everything down like a mage can.

  11. #11
    Bloodsail Admiral Sharby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    In my opinion, if there is an option to be anti social...people will take it.

    Communities are a perfect example. Its an optional tool

    If they want the game to be social again...in my opinion it needs to be "mandatory" by design

    This is how i see it...kinda messed up if you think about it.
    Removing the option to be antisocial in order for the game to be social

    But IMO is the only way
    But there are ways to do this without gimping everyone.


    For example, the current luck of the draw buff you get in queued dungeons could be reworked to give stacks based on how people are in a single party. You bring four friends > everyone gets 20% more hp/healing/dmg/xp.


    This does mean that groups with no parties will get less, but I doubt most people even notice that buff anyhow.


    Since you PvP they could do a system where you get more honor/xp for doing PVP with friends.


    Forcing community in regards to endgame systems is a no-no though. MAYBE a resource buff similar warmode for being in a group.
    Honorary member of the Baine Fanclub, the only member really.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Ion disagrees and you are living in denial...or you just dont know any better.
    SO in your opinion Ion is lying...



    Its just a human thing.
    People will always pick the path of least resistance if the option is available (for the most part)
    There is nothing wrong with that...if there is a road without obstacles for your objective...gamers will take it.

    - - - Updated - - -



    lol...even now people deny it i hope you are just messing with me...
    Or you simply dont know any better
    Ion pulled some buzz words marketing told him to say probably from some focus groups they did. They have no intention if actually fulfilling those goals. Completely lip service. How many times will you fall for this?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Skulltaker View Post
    No, Ion is a salesman. He sells you the perception of something that never existed in the first place, at least not the way you think it did.

    Server community in Vanilla was based on necessity. Technical limitations, for the most part. And it had incredible downsides aswell. Ever waited 2 - 3 hours for an invite to Arathi? Or Alterac? I have. Oh what great fun unbalanced servers were. You think being outnumbered in warmode today is bad? Ha! Yeah, not being able to quest in Stranglethorn because of how drastically outnumbered your faction was was amazing.

    You used to recognize more players and their names back in Vanilla? Of course. Servers were a fraction of the size they are today.

    World of WarCraft was always designed to be enjoyable solo. It was one of the core design philosophies outlined by Jeff Kaplan, it was what distinguished WoW from the competition and probably contributed greatly to its success. Group content was optional. You could enjoy vast amounts of the game completely on your own. Sure, the game offered you more to do if you grouped up.

    And not a single thing has changed in the game since then, all it has done is trim away the fat of mechanics that just aren't viable in 2020 anymore. There is no mechanic in Retail that hinders you in enjoying the game the exact same way you did in Vanilla. If you force people to do something, you'll probably drive people away.
    List of things that create a sense of community in Classic:

    1) Leveling
    Mob tagging for your own faction made you want to group up, otherwise you were fighting for resources with your own faction
    Also some zones have elite quests OR high density mobs inside houses where is mandatory to group up

    2) World Buffs
    There are discord communities with schedules for world buffs and the entire server gathers around at the same time in the city to be buffed

    3) Professions
    You needed to be friends with enchanters and other proffesion players

    4) Raiding
    There is no solo queue so you need to be social in order to receive raiding epics

    5) Server community
    Recognize the same faces, be the servers famous X player for doing/giving X thing
    Or be infamous by ganking the other faction in PvP

    This is it for the most part...

  14. #14
    Dreadlord Seiklis's Avatar
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    Guilds need to be empowered again and easiest way to do that is to eliminate the catch up mechanics and make people work for every piece of gear they're wearing. If WoW makes people work for their gear and make that gear something to be sought after

    That said won't happen since it would probably mean the elimination of raiding tiers, catchup mechanics, gear from world quests, meaningless rare mobs...it would basically be shredding most of the game design since Chilton screwed everything up after Ulduar

    The point above is also a good point, Blizzard's unwillingness to do server merges has always hurt the game. Combine several of the servers to try to get something close to the big ones and shut off all Cross Realm tech unless a person is invited. Hell I'd prolly shut down the LFG custom tab and make it the only way someone can phase in is through a Bnet friend invite
    Last edited by Seiklis; 2020-04-10 at 01:14 AM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    Ion pulled some buzz words marketing told him to say probably from some focus groups they did. They have no intention if actually fulfilling those goals. Completely lip service. How many times will you fall for this?
    Sadly...i agree with you...
    I lack faith they will be able to deliver "this" in shadowlands...maybe in the next expansion or something

    But he did say they have a lot of internal discussion in how to bring back the social part.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharby View Post
    But there are ways to do this without gimping everyone.


    For example, the current luck of the draw buff you get in queued dungeons could be reworked to give stacks based on how people are in a single party. You bring four friends > everyone gets 20% more hp/healing/dmg/xp.


    This does mean that groups with no parties will get less, but I doubt most people even notice that buff anyhow.


    Since you PvP they could do a system where you get more honor/xp for doing PVP with friends.


    Forcing community in regards to endgame systems is a no-no though. MAYBE a resource buff similar warmode for being in a group.
    Ok, your ideas are pretty great.
    Maybe...just maybe, after reading your post, there are better ways to make the game social without making it mandatory by design

  16. #16
    Merge servers and abolish the stupid fucking CRZ and sharding. When cataclysm added that cancer, it annihilated each and every individual server community out there.

    But Blizzard won't do that. People told them it was fucking stupid to do and they went with it anyways insisting that it would be good for the game.

    Deep down they knew it was a fuck up but won't admit it.

  17. #17
    The game isn’t big enough to utilize all of these dead realms it has.

    I think the first step would be one or two megaservers per region.

    CRZ of course being deleted. It only made dead realms feel alive.

  18. #18
    People are so antisocial now that it didn't even work in Classic.

    They might change some things, but unless you magically make people friendly and trusting there is zero way to recapture the Vanilla feeling.

  19. #19
    What kind of social things are we talking about? I have never talked with anyone back then if it wasn't for dungeons/raids.

    The same goes for today. I mean obviously the chance to see that random funny looking orc twice in OG was higher back then than it is today - but seriously that has nothing to do with any social aspects.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    What kind of social things are we talking about? I have never talked with anyone back then if it wasn't for dungeons/raids.

    The same goes for today. I mean obviously the chance to see that random funny looking orc twice in OG was higher back then than it is today - but seriously that has nothing to do with any social aspects.
    I updated the Op with a list of things i personally found to make a better sense of community.
    Its a personal list though.

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