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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Luhmina View Post
    The fw change to sub sounds indeed wierd. I could understand something like the first hit from stealth/dance applying it, but bs from back +crits and storm crits is wierd.
    There's ZERO reason for such an awful change to ever make it into a build, even the roughest alpha build. It's an obviously terrible change on paper, and that fact is obvious to everyone who has experience playing Subtlety. There is no reason to even entertain such an awful idea for more than a few seconds, let alone to actually get it into a build for testing.

    I'm reminded of our gold traits in Legion, like Shadow Nova that breaks Saps or the original version of Akaari's Soul that ruined PvP openers. These issues were OBVIOUS on paper, within 2 seconds of reading the trait on paper you were shaking your head and saying "they really have someone running this show that doesn't have the slightest amount of experience actually playing that spec".
    Subtlety Rogue was an amazing, incredible, unique, and fun spec prior to Legion and BfA

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  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Luhmina View Post
    it's only the first round of alpha

    maybe lets not do that mistake again especially when they officially said this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
    There aren't any huge sets of class changes that have been held back for future release.
    The team is trying to get as many changes in as early as they can so that they can start getting feedback while there is still time on act on it.
    Previous expansions had some changes added late during beta and the team didn't have time to respond to feedback before things went live.

  3. #23
    Mean while I am just hoping they make the mage tower assassin daggers sheath on the hip instead of the back.

  4. #24
    Giving Assa SnD is at best an empty button and at worst a nerf. It works for Outlaw because it uses slower weapons and it works for Sub because it has nothing else to press and will help with energy regen.

    I can't understand why it was added...

  5. #25
    The Patient Lunareste's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StillMcfuu View Post
    Giving Assa SnD is at best an empty button and at worst a nerf. It works for Outlaw because it uses slower weapons and it works for Sub because it has nothing else to press and will help with energy regen.

    I can't understand why it was added...
    In what world is more Deadly Poisons procs a nerf? Pressing Slice and Dice feels like a reward and I think it makes the spec feel more complete, personally.

    It's one more buff to manage so that Assassination isn't literally a 4 button spec, but at 5 CP it doesn't need to be refreshed often enough to necessitate constant watch like Garrote. Whether SnD or Rupture needs to be applied first will eventually be mathed out.

    I'm actually much more interested in Blindside being added to Assassination. Ambush feels great to use, but against SnD Master Poisoner for PVE? It could definitely be really great in PVP though.
    Last edited by Lunareste; 2020-04-11 at 05:08 PM.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Lunareste View Post
    In what world is more Deadly Poisons procs a nerf? Pressing Slice and Dice feels like a reward and I think it makes the spec feel more complete, personally.

    It's one more buff to manage so that Assassination isn't literally a 4 button spec, but at 5 CP it doesn't need to be refreshed often enough to necessitate constant watch like Garrote. Whether SnD or Rupture needs to be applied first will eventually be mathed out.

    I'm actually much more interested in Blindside being added to Assassination. Ambush feels great to use, but against SnD Master Poisoner for PVE? It could definitely be really great in PVP though.
    You have to manage rupture, garrote, potentially a covenant dot, crimson tempest, envenom up time, shiv damage window, and potentially an elaborate planning window. Pooling before a shiv/Tb window will likely also be more of an issue with another uptime requirement.

    Although I may be wrong on the envenom uptime, I think someone mentioned that assassination may get the 30% increased poison chance as baseline. I cant find that as a passive though.

  7. #27
    I am Murloc! Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clownpenisfart View Post
    maybe lets not do that mistake again especially when they officially said this:
    In that case it will be a shitshow again. But I'm sure Taliesin and Evitel will be excited about it.

  8. #28
    wait? s&d return for assa?
    damn, thats shit.
    why no kingsbane? 7.2 CD juggling with boots was best assa iteration evah =( maybe the covenant can help

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by omeomorfismo View Post
    wait? s&d return for assa?
    damn, thats shit.
    why no kingsbane? 7.2 CD juggling with boots was best assa iteration evah =( maybe the covenant can help
    The night fae covenant ability might fill that void, but it's an execute finisher.

  10. #30
    I really, really didn't want Slice and Dice back.

    Burn it in the deepest of hells and throw the ashes into a clogged toilet.
    Once upon a time... the end. Next time, try twice upon a time.

  11. #31
    i was hoping they would revert outlaw to combat again. hate all the pirate shit in my rogue class.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Lora View Post
    the only thing i give a fuck about them giving rogues back is burst of speed.
    Ah the glory days
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  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Drusin View Post
    Ah the glory days
    Burst of Speed was rediculously Overpowered, doesn't need to be back in the game since people will QQ about this so massively (like they did before when BoS was a thing) leading to nerfs in other aspects of the class (see losing gouge, garrote, disarm traps...) instead they should just add the freedom sprint as baseline on the same cd we currently have it.

    SnD is a good start since it adds depth, atleast for pvp (and I focus mostly on PVP). What I now want to see is gouge at least for subt (since assa already has garrote), perhaps garrote to be re-added baseline but only when its used from stealth/subterfuge, not from dance.

    While poisons add some flavour back to the class, sadly this is auto-dmg and what rogues -like any other class- need most, is having buttons matter more than auto hits.
    Last edited by Nervyz; 2020-04-16 at 08:42 AM.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Nervyz View Post
    Burst of Speed was rediculously Overpowered, doesn't need to be back in the game since people will QQ about this so massively (like they did before when BoS was a thing) leading to nerfs in other aspects of the class (see losing gouge, garrote, disarm traps...) instead they should just add the freedom sprint as baseline on the same cd we currently have it.
    Make it so it's only usable out of combat
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  15. #35
    Bloodsail Admiral Micronetic's Avatar
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    I would say because the unpruning falls short on rogues only shows they are in a good spot, don't you think?

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by clinophobia View Post
    I would say because the unpruning falls short on rogues only shows they are in a good spot, don't you think?
    No, all 3 specs have issues. Sub is probably the worst spec of the 3 on live. They’ve made good progress in SL but they haven’t added many meaningful abilities. They also kept symbols of death which is a terrible ability. Just a flat damage buff for your dance

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Jibbler View Post
    No, all 3 specs have issues. Sub is probably the worst spec of the 3 on live. They’ve made good progress in SL but they haven’t added many meaningful abilities. They also kept symbols of death which is a terrible ability. Just a flat damage buff for your dance
    Symbols of Death is a terrible, stupid ability that has no kind of meaningful resource interaction.
    Subtlety Rogue was an amazing, incredible, unique, and fun spec prior to Legion and BfA

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  18. #38
    Bloodsail Admiral Micronetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jibbler View Post
    No, all 3 specs have issues. Sub is probably the worst spec of the 3 on live. They’ve made good progress in SL but they haven’t added many meaningful abilities. They also kept symbols of death which is a terrible ability. Just a flat damage buff for your dance
    I have watched Pikaboo playing Sub and it didn't look that bad. But I haven't played Sub since WoD so I don't know how it is now or was in Legion.

  19. #39
    Remind me please why sub can't get back garotte-silence?

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by ff50dccd-a222-42f3-a786 View Post
    Remind me please why sub can't get back garotte-silence?
    Blizzard refuses to discuss this, just as they refuse to discuss Gouge, even though these are obviously the most requested abilities to be unpruned.

    That is interesting, because the justification Celestalon provided to me personally back in 2016 for pruning all that stuff is "well, we are giving you a lot more Shadow Dance uptime so you'll have more Cheap Shots, so we are taking away other CCs to compensate"

    Well?

    We've losing the garbage high Dance frequency playstyle (good riddance). Now where are our damn Rogue buttons?
    Subtlety Rogue was an amazing, incredible, unique, and fun spec prior to Legion and BfA

    “All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others.”

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