Let loot be Loot - Ion2020

[MiiiMiii]

I think it is a cool move by Blizzard to move away from warforging/titanforging/corruption systems but the fight don't end there.

Having 4 different raid difficulties means the spread of item levels over the course of 1 patch is so big, next patch will still feel like a whole new expansion and people will not have any interest in doing 9.0 content in 9.1.

Why? 9.1 LFR will give better gear than Mythic 9.0 gear...

Ion said "let loot be loot", but still loot is 4 different scales of the same item name??? Also M+0 vs M+15 same loot item has a huge difference in value??

"Let loot be loot" as a quote is kind of an insult with the 4 raiding difficulties and M+ system. "Bracers of Bastion Superiority" is not the same on ilvl 110ilvl LFR quality as it is on mythic 140ilvl...

With every minor patch feeling like a whole new expansion redering previous tier useless is a horrible way to design the game...

[kamuimac]

I am a casual and I like the idea of this new/old system a lot simply (depending on implementation, of course) because I like having a specific path of power and gearing in the game that can continue through the expansion. Last time I played properly (back in Legion), I would have some alts going into a new raid with practically half their slots unavailable for gearing because of lucky procs in content already done giving stupidly high ilevel, sometimes even from a WQ. It was literally making the gearing progress obsolete for those slots for a full tier (unless I got again some crazy RNG-roll), while other alts of mine were scrapping the bottom of the barrel for any upgrades because all they got was the baseline ilevel.

and now you simply wont get into any raids at all without having full mythic + gear because of idiotic requirements that our playerbase will make .

so with 1 move blizzard effectively killed off pugging too.

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Most of them started playing in Legion, so their frames of reference are limited.

give people VP gear to farm and everybody will shut up imidiately .

because they will have something to do in game.

thats why people dont mention those expansions because that d...ck Ion told so many times he wont give people VP gear . so we will be stuck with WoD 2.0

[Dizzeeyooo]

and now you simply wont get into any raids at all without having full mythic + gear because of idiotic requirements that our playerbase will make .

Wait, was this change supposed to kill m+ or massively boost it? I'm confused now

[TickTickTick]

Let's say previous tier Mythic ilev would be equal to current tier normal ilev. Would that make more sense? I guess you can't go too far with it because basically then mythic raiders have no need to raid heroic at all.

But IMO they should lower the ilev jump from tier and difficulty. 15 is too much, in Wotlk it was 6 iirc?

[Mightytasty]

In wrath, epics ranged from 200 to 284 with shadowmourne. In BFA, they ranged from 340 to 500 with cloak.

Imo they should aim for a 15-20iLvl jump between patches. The current 30 is too much.

[Biomega]

I'm most worried about M+, because without WF/TF you can't really balance loot drops in a way that doesn't make either raiding or M+ obsolete at the high end. If M+ dropped mythic raid ilvl loot, people would just farm that 24/7; but if it drops less, then mythic raiders have very little incentive to ever go and do M+. Neither is a good outcome.

[M1r4g3]

From someone lower down the chain:

I don’t want to give people a reason to run content they outgear. That’s an enormous problem for the pugging community. Most of the people who give pugging it’s bad name are people who outgear the content and are outrageous elitist assholes to the people who are still learning.

Maybe, but at the same time the casuals who are in raiding guilds as socials will get boosted A LOT more often now compared to when anyone can get a titanforged upgrade.

[Barzotti]

Maybe, but at the same time the casuals who are in raiding guilds as socials will get boosted A LOT more often now compared to when anyone can get a titanforged upgrade.

Boosted a lot more often while loot will become more scarce? How

[M1r4g3]

Boosted a lot more often while loot will become more scarce? How

Because people who outgear things will let people who don't take their spots more often?

[Domm530]

they literaly announced they are removing rewards for activities from milions of players in form of WF/TF .

if you cant connect the 2 - dont worry they will tell you that evnetually

just dont tell then you werent warned.

You are unbelievable naive to think their wont be any rewards from mythic + my man, thr past 4 years have shown us they are double downing on mythic + as thats their competitive esports, they will NEVER ever remove all the rewards you will get each run

[MiiiMiii]

Let's say previous tier Mythic ilev would be equal to current tier normal ilev. Would that make more sense? I guess you can't go too far with it because basically then mythic raiders have no need to raid heroic at all.

But IMO they should lower the ilev jump from tier and difficulty. 15 is too much, in Wotlk it was 6 iirc?

I agree if the ilvl difference was only like 6 this problem would be minimized a whole lot but Shadowlands still has the Legion/BfA ilvl jumps if i'm not completely misinformed

[TheRevenantHero]

The removal of TF is going to cripple the playerbase simply because people have grown used to it. It will severely punish the players who can't be hardcore and cause them to quit because they won't be getting meaningful rewards anymore. I understand that veteran players want a return to form but that's not WoW's playerbase majority anymore. Removing this is going to cause a massive drop in subscriptions.

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Maybe, but at the same time the casuals who are in raiding guilds as socials will get boosted A LOT more often now compared to when anyone can get a titanforged upgrade.

they'll only get boosted if they pay gold for it. Such is the way of the community now.

[Clozer]

A 14(Max key level you have to do to get max loot at end of dungeon) is not challenging lol (especially as a dps)

Because he cant stomproll the first bosses in a mythic raid? For even more and easier loot.

[Barzotti]

Because people who outgear things will let people who don't take their spots more often?

So you mean people refused to let their spot to guildies/socials in content they outgeared because "I might have a warforge/titanforge/corruption proc"?

[Onikaroshi]

I agree if the ilvl difference was only like 6 this problem would be minimized a whole lot but Shadowlands still has the Legion/BfA ilvl jumps if i'm not completely misinformed

SL will probably be the same as usual, 15 ilvl difference between difficulties, 30 between tiers. This is where they feel that people feel they are getting an actual upgrade and why it has been like that for awhile.

[kaminaris]

The removal of TF is going to cripple the playerbase simply because people have grown used to it. It will severely punish the players who can't be hardcore and cause them to quit because they won't be getting meaningful rewards anymore. I understand that veteran players want a return to form but that's not WoW's playerbase majority anymore. Removing this is going to cause a massive drop in subscriptions.

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they'll only get boosted if they pay gold for it. Such is the way of the community now.

It didn't start now. Back in MoP my casual friends quit the game somewhere around 3rd month of SoO. They just didn't have anything to work for.
I've lost so many friends back then. Even IRL friends quit.

Those couple of IRL friends came back in WoD, we boosted them at heroic raids, week later they left.

[TheRevenantHero]

It didn't start now. Back in MoP my casual friends quit the game somewhere around 3rd month of SoO. They just didn't have anything to work for.
I've lost so many friends back then. Even IRL friends quit.

Those couple of IRL friends came back in WoD, we boosted them at heroic raids, week later they left.

Yep and we're gonna see it happen again. More casual players will have nothing to work towards and nothing to do because people will expect insane item levels in LFG. Why subscribe when you have nothing to work towards aside from dailies?

[kaminaris]

Yep and we're gonna see it happen again. More casual players will have nothing to work towards and nothing to do because people will expect insane item levels in LFG. Why subscribe when you have nothing to work towards aside from dailies?

In best case people will come for up to 1 month each patch and leave waiting for next one making WoW trully a seasonal game.

[david0925]

You can easily have meaningful progression by allowing people to Wf/TF their gear through tokens which can be purchased by earning AP which is capped per week. Have a cap per patch. Let's say a Mythic raider caps out at 1000 ilvl for the tier, the casual raider will cap out at 970 ilvl for the tier, on average, if their base ilvl starts out 30 ilvls lower, and they can even assign it so their more important pieces also reach 1000 ilvl while the less important pieces stay at 930.

There are ways for people to make reasonable progression doing all contents without RNG, and it's really not that complicated to balance. RNG is the worst way to do it.

[Big Thanks]

You can easily have meaningful progression by allowing people to Wf/TF their gear through tokens which can be purchased by earning AP which is capped per week. Have a cap per patch. Let's say a Mythic raider caps out at 1000 ilvl for the tier, the casual raider will cap out at 970 ilvl for the tier, on average, if their base ilvl starts out 30 ilvls lower, and they can even assign it so their more important pieces also reach 1000 ilvl while the less important pieces stay at 930.

There are ways for people to make reasonable progression doing all contents without RNG, and it's really not that complicated to balance. RNG is the worst way to do it.

But here is the deal.
Whats the point in making progression take longer...possibly even long enough to make it impossible to reach MAX gear potential before a new patch release?
Isnt this..."artificial" in some way?

Let gear be gear will obviously make us reach max potential sooner...

And i see it as a good thing because i enjoy playing at max potential for some time.
I dont enjoy when a new patch releases and my gear is still not maxed

my 2 cents