Let loot be Loot - Ion2020

[Hctaz]

Also, good luck having any mythic raiders even TOUCH heroic raids/pugs with this backwards system in effect, as there'll literally be no incentive but to go and invest time beat lower ilvl players on a meter.

Uh.... yes? This is... exactly what I want? Why would I want mythic raiders to go into Heroic raids when they're MYTHIC RAIDERS???? You also are under the assumption that mythic raiders PuG heroic or something. Mythic raiders don't go into heroic PuGs, they split farm heroic on their alts.

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...so do you think every single player who played the game a decade ago would still be playing if Blizzard had just left the game like it was in WotLK? You really are the kind of person that would buy oceanfront property in Colorado.

I mean... I'm playing Classic WoW right now so like.. yes. Yes i do lol

[Very rare pepe]

If you need the carrot on the stick to play this game then perhaps this game should not be on your PC, it would mean that the actual game itself, the content isn't enough for you and you should stop playing. If your incentive to play is lucking out on RNG by doing random bits of content then I feel sorry for you.

[Relapses]

I mean... I'm playing Classic WoW right now so like.. yes. Yes i do lol

You're free to enjoy Classic on a personal level. But this notion that people in general wouldn't have quit WoW after more than a fucking decade -- regardless of any changes made to the game -- is hilariously silly.

[Hctaz]

You're free to enjoy Classic on a personal level. But this notion that people in general wouldn't have quit WoW after more than a fucking decade -- regardless of any changes made to the game -- is hilariously silly.

People in general absolutely wouldn't have quit WoW had they not started down the line of thinking that they did midway through Wrath and onwards. As soon as Activision and the business side of things took over development of WoW, it became much worse. The whole purpose of LFR was because it didn't make sense financially for them to invest money into content that only a few people saw. That's honestly a load of horseshit that the devs who made Classic WoW wouldn't have agreed with at all. WoW changed from a passion project to make the WORLD of Warcraft a real place you could visit into a business, and that's what killed off WoW.

[FelPlague]

Uh.... yes? This is... exactly what I want? Why would I want mythic raiders to go into Heroic raids when they're MYTHIC RAIDERS???? You also are under the assumption that mythic raiders PuG heroic or something. Mythic raiders don't go into heroic PuGs, they split farm heroic on their alts.

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I mean... I'm playing Classic WoW right now so like.. yes. Yes i do lol

lets see if you are still playing classic, just fighting kel'thuzad and re clearing naxxramas for the next 15 years.

[Hctaz]

lets see if you are still playing classic, just fighting kel'thuzad and re clearing naxxramas for the next 15 years.

I mean... They could have added more raids after Classic lol or made all of the content that was ever released minus all of the bad decisions and I'd still be playing the game.

The comment that started this back and forth was that WoW Classic wouldn't be able to exist today because players wouldn't be satisfied with the gameplay loop it offers. I'm saying that argument is incorrect and that Classic WoW's gameplay loop is great, and I still enjoy it. It doesn't mean that there can't be any new content.

[MrLachyG]

Tertiary stats stay. Leech, Avoidance, Speed etc. Sockets they are sure on, but said it makes little sense for random sockets to exist without titanforging, so likely either gear will just have sockets baseline again, or BS/JC will have a way to add sockets to items.

Tertiary stats don't make a huge difference anyway. I agree with you on sockets, I always had a hunch that the item that Wrathion sells which adds sockets to gear would be the way forward

[Spacewalrus2010]

Not super happy about this. Avoidance, leech, corruption etc can go away for all I care. But titan-forging was fun for me. Even if they just reduced the possible cap to heroic level, I'd be fine with it. Oh well.

Not quitting over it or anything, but it's disappointing.

[MrLachyG]

Also, good luck having any mythic raiders even TOUCH heroic raids/pugs with this backwards system in effect, as there'll literally be no incentive but to go and invest time beat lower ilvl players on a meter.

yeah that's kinda the point. means raiders can push mythic harder without having to go back and clear heroic for that extra upgrade. and that is a good thing. they will probably still do heroic on alts to gear them up a bit so if they need to switch during mythic prog they can do so. as Ion said it's about player agency. players should do stuff in the game that they want to do, not because they feel obligated to do it

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Not super happy about this. Avoidance, leech, corruption etc can go away for all I care. But titan-forging was fun for me. Even if they just reduced the possible cap to heroic level, I'd be fine with it. Oh well.

Not quitting over it or anything, but it's disappointing.

hindsight being 20/20 they should never have increased loot drops and kept any bonus to the 6ilvl boost it was in Mists. that way the higher difficulty gear is still better than what you get from a lower difficulty even with the boost

[Relapses]

People in general absolutely wouldn't have quit WoW had they not started down the line of thinking that they did midway through Wrath and onwards. As soon as Activision and the business side of things took over development of WoW, it became much worse. The whole purpose of LFR was because it didn't make sense financially for them to invest money into content that only a few people saw. That's honestly a load of horseshit that the devs who made Classic WoW wouldn't have agreed with at all. WoW changed from a passion project to make the WORLD of Warcraft a real place you could visit into a business, and that's what killed off WoW.

Ten fucking years is a long ass time to arrogantly assume nobody would have quit if "Activision" hadn't changed the game's philosophy. Please use critical thinking. This is an awful fucking argument.

[dryla1]

The comment that started this back and forth was that WoW Classic wouldn't be able to exist today because players wouldn't be satisfied with the gameplay loop it offers. I'm saying that argument is incorrect and that Classic WoW's gameplay loop is great, and I still enjoy it. It doesn't mean that there can't be any new content.

That gameplay loop would have you and a lot of people like you satified and still playing the game, sure, but how many of the people who were happily playing the game in vanilla and bc just leveling and doing a dungeon here and there, and never engaging into raiding, would still be playing the game if they had not been provided with some kind of end game progression outside from raids?

[bigbleach]

No AP, no WF/TF, but less loot dropping.

Seems good to me.

That may be something I missed, I saw that it was stated less loot would drop... But, does that mean there will be less overall items that CAN drop? Meaning instead of the boss having a loot table of 20 items, they will have 8? Or are they talking about literally less loot dropping per boss? I think the latter would be bad... how many pieces drop hasn't been an issue since vanilla, when it was 3 per 40.

[FelPlague]

I mean... They could have added more raids after Classic lol or made all of the content that was ever released minus all of the bad decisions and I'd still be playing the game.

The comment that started this back and forth was that WoW Classic wouldn't be able to exist today because players wouldn't be satisfied with the gameplay loop it offers. I'm saying that argument is incorrect and that Classic WoW's gameplay loop is great, and I still enjoy it. It doesn't mean that there can't be any new content.

and yet that would be changing... and adding... classic 1.12 is VERY different from 1.0.0

if they kept adding and changing and adding and changing, they would have ended up the exact same place we are now, as well they did, the "style of vanilla" is vanilla, it was short, it had just started, and it only made a few changes.

idk if you realise this, but no expansion COMPLETLY changed the game.
every patch, every month, every expansion, changed a few things, that over time made the game entirely different.

wow 1.0.0 is VERY different from 1.12.0
following the same path wow took from 1.0.0 to 1.12.0 on, we get where we are now, they made the game more accessible, more catch up mechanics, more way to get guaranteed gear, easier leveling, an easier game, so on so forth.

[Relapses]

That may be something I missed, I saw that it was stated less loot would drop... But, does that mean there will be less overall items that CAN drop? Meaning instead of the boss having a loot table of 20 items, they will have 8? Or are they talking about literally less loot dropping per boss? I think the latter would be bad... how many pieces drop hasn't been an issue since vanilla, when it was 3 per 40.

The devs would like gear to feel more special. Fewer boss drops would result in each piece having more meaning. One could easily inference that this means they intend to reduce boss drops but it's unclear at this point. Certainly without WF/TFing there's a lot less incentive to run older content.

[Spacewalrus2010]

hindsight being 20/20 they should never have increased loot drops and kept any bonus to the 6ilvl boost it was in Mists. that way the higher difficulty gear is still better than what you get from a lower difficulty even with the boost

I disagree. I would be willing let the hardest difficulty (mythic) have its way being the best gear and all, but only because I realize I'm not the only one playing the game. But it's a compromise, not something I fully support. I don't agree with the concepts that group difficulty should be tied to character progression. I can find difficulty fun, but difficulty that also relies on the performance of others to successfully clear is just not my cup of tea.

[Kallisto]

To anyone who opposes the removal of TF/WF/Corrupt how many hours do you want to play a week? 40? Because at the beginning of 8.3 it felt damn near a second job..... and that's before a single alt. God help you if you want to play alts and also have a job. Personally, I think 10-15 hours a week is an insane level of engagement for any game. To try and push it farther is just insane and scares people away from raiding and m+ because the barrier of entry is far too high.

I WOULD LIKE TO DO OTHER THINGS BESIDES WOW. With the current state of the game anyone who wants to perform at their very best feels compelled to spend every waking minute in this game trying to RNG their way to their best pieces. And don't even get me started on the fact that you can buy BIS corruptions with real money, good god what a catastrophe.

You can do all the things besides wow. I have this thing that is called self control, you know you could learn it. Say no, sa "I'll do something else." what are you going to lose? If your raid leader is that much of a bitch their saying "YOU MUST FARM EVERYTHING FOR THE SMALL TF CHANCE." tell them to go fuck themself

[Synical123]

...so do you think every single player who played the game a decade ago would still be playing if Blizzard had just left the game like it was in WotLK? You really are the kind of person that would buy oceanfront property in Colorado.

I believe this as that’s what I have been doing for the last 10 years. So have a lot of people....

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The devs would like gear to feel more special. Fewer boss drops would result in each piece having more meaning. One could easily inference that this means they intend to reduce boss drops but it's unclear at this point. Certainly without WF/TFing there's a lot less incentive to run older content.

People run old content still? Hmm.... sure...

[Relapses]

I believe this as that’s what I have been doing for the last 10 years. So have a lot of people....

Completely anecdotal. A sample size of yourself and a nebulous claim of "a lot of people" is not proof of anything.

[Laughingjack]

...so do you think every single player who played the game a decade ago would still be playing if Blizzard had just left the game like it was in WotLK? You really are the kind of person that would buy oceanfront property in Colorado.

I mean I in no way said that but lets be honest you never intended to even try to anything close to a honest argument.

[Beefkow]

Why are Mythic raiders in LFR if there are no titanforge procs to fish for?

To show off my gear and my damage.

Felt great during SoO as a fury warrior, I would do 60% of the entire raid's damage and it felt awesome.