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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Random story

    I had a HUGE rivalry in Wrath of the Lich King with a undead rogue named Lililililililililili
    I first met him in a random 2v2 arena

    One day a friend told me on Skype "Hey look is the rogue we met in arena! Here in the sewers"
    I dueled him. (cant remember if lost or won)

    Some other day i saw him fly outside of dalaran and i followed him...we fought again, this time to the death in the outside world. I lost.

    I met him constantly in the world and are stories like this that make server communties. IMO
    For that you would have to remove crossrealm play. If you do that... well you will destroy crossrealm communities and prevent friends from playing together also effectively reducing player pool to choose from meaning people will move into full servers where you won't care again because there is like 30k Horde in Kazzak.
    I mean unless you are doing solo content, you could be locked to your realm, but as soon as you are in search for M+ or some rare kill/pvp group you will be out in some other realm most likely or bring random people to your realm.
    Again, City vs a Village mate. As soon as they opened the world for us, it is not possible to take that away. Stories like yours happened to many. I used to duel outside of OG all the time. The thing is everyone has their goals now and want to make them and we use other people to get there, even in classic, community is mostly the same, just old game mechanics are still forcing it but it's rules which everyone signed up for, when they joined classic. Can't make any significant changes to retail and not break something.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Synical123 View Post
    Ok that’s cool and all, but you do understand that you putting people into your friends list has nothing to do with community right?

    I also have put more friends in my friends list, but it’s because I hate going into lfg for arenas so I just add anyone I find that’s decent and then just whisper them when I need them. That’s not exactly community building.

    Think of this, when was the last time you qued a dungeon, saw a familiar name, and thought to yourself “hey I’ve seen this guy all the time! I remember last week he was helping me take over a tower in wintergrasp”

    Or the last time you saw a horde running around and was like “god this guy, he is always running around with his Paladin healer friend, well now he is alone time to kill him!”

    It’s memories and interactions you have with your whole server that makes a community. This is impossible with retail.

    Sure you can add 50000000 people to your friends list if you want. That’s not a community
    The only time that happened in vanilla on my servers was when someone was a ninja looter or loud assholes in chat that you only noticed because they too were waiting hours for a group. Do we really need that back? And actually you even get that now with trade chat and guilds that sell runs. So like if you see a Ysera server name in chat you know they probably are gunna be a dbag.
    Last edited by qwerty123456; 2020-04-11 at 04:05 AM.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    For that you would have to remove crossrealm play. If you do that... well you will destroy crossrealm communities and prevent friends from playing together also effectively reducing player pool to choose from meaning people will move into full servers where you won't care again because there is like 30k Horde in Kazzak.
    I mean unless you are doing solo content, you could be locked to your realm, but as soon as you are in search for M+ or some rare kill/pvp group you will be out in some other realm most likely or bring random people to your realm.
    Again, City vs a Village mate. As soon as they opened the world for us, it is not possible to take that away. Stories like yours happened to many. I used to duel outside of OG all the time. The thing is everyone has their goals now and want to make them and we use other people to get there, even in classic, community is mostly the same, just old game mechanics are still forcing it but it's rules which everyone signed up for, when they joined classic. Can't make any significant changes to retail and not break something.
    Just a random idea...have channels (or shards) with a cap that work like a classic server and we can pick which shard to join?
    Quick idea, not sure if its good or not...

    I really have no clue about what to do from here...

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    The only time that happened in vanilla on my servers was when someone was a ninja looter or loud assholes in chat that you only noticed because they too were waiting hours for a group. Do we really need that back? And actually you even get that now with trade chat and guilds that sell runs. So like if you see a Ysera server name in chat you know they probably are gunna be a dbag.
    So you never did dungeons or world pvp or raids or anything like that and you never recognized any names. Is that what you’re honestly trying to tell me here?

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Synical123 View Post
    So you never did dungeons or world pvp or raids or anything like that and you never recognized any names. Is that what you’re honestly trying to tell me here?
    I pvped, raided, dungeon-ed, and everything and the only names known on my servers were dickheads either from scamming or just always in chat being dumb. That is of course excluding guildies or people I added.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Just a random idea...have channels (or shards) with a cap that work like a classic server and we can pick which shard to join?
    Quick idea, not sure if its good or not...

    I really have no clue about what to do from here...
    as soon as you can pick, you will be there with different people every time you pick one or again, if you join a pug/friends grp. I can't see how they can recreate classic in retail. Maybe some server events which grant you power or something, but then again if would suck because you would be forced to do that with ppl from your server rather than your friends. Unless you enable to invite people to join the effort from other realms, but then it will just be abused like Nazjatar PvP event - join pugs until you find where you win.
    Thing is, people who want to be social - they are. Boosting communities, secret finders, class grps and so on. People who don't - they won't, plenty of occasions to chat with people every day.
    Slowing the game down so there is less to do so people can just go duel around or yell around the item names which they are selling would not work either as people would call it absolute content drought and start dropping their subs.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    I pvped, raided, dungeon-ed, and everything and the only names known on my servers were dickheads either from scamming or just always in chat being dumb. That is of course excluding guildies or people I added.
    So you just had your blinders on playing the game then, gotcha. Hey wait I think there’s a nice quote up here from you that fits this.

    Something about ‘don’t blame the game when you aren’t trying to pay attention or make friends’ that sounds sort of nice right now. How do your words taste? Bitter?

    This is silly to even humor the idea that retail has more community than the older one server versions. Even blizzard themselves admit it. And you’re here actually dying on this hill lol. Dude you have got to get real

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    Vanilla WoW had a genuine sense of community. Classic WoW started feeling like retail once the shock value wore off. People talk the same, act the same, troll/grief the same.

    That isn't to say there isn't fun to be had in Classic - obvious millions manage just fine - but anyone that is still peddling the 'cLasSiC hAs REeL cOmMuNiTy' is deluding themselves.
    Which is funny. Back when retail classic came out, most people came from Everquest or Runescape, where most content was group content, so they had that mentality already ingrained in them.

    Recreating Classic isnt and didnt bring that back, because theres a generation who didnt play MMOs like that. You cant force a 'feeling' of social awareness on people who never had to need a group beyond their guild.

    Social aspects have never left, just the loud complainers with their ruby glasses think otherwise.
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  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Synical123 View Post
    So you just had your blinders on playing the game then, gotcha. Hey wait I think there’s a nice quote up here from you that fits this.

    Something about ‘don’t blame the game when you aren’t trying to pay attention or make friends’ that sounds sort of nice right now. How do your words taste? Bitter?

    This is silly to even humor the idea that retail has more community than the older one server versions. Even blizzard themselves admit it. And you’re here actually dying on this hill lol. Dude you have got to get real
    Are you retarded?? Just because my servers didn't have a leroy jenkins or what ever doesn't mean I didn't pay attention. If I've had more than one interaction with someone that was positive we probably added each other. It's really creepy how you keep trying to twist my words to prove yourself right when the fact that "named" people still exist on servers and people still help each other means the community is still there. Play with warmode off and you will often times have a member of the opposite faction help you if you are low health.

    Also:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number
    So if you seriously had all these hundreds of named individuals you must have had a pretty sad real life back then. Hope you have a better one today.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    Vanilla WoW had a genuine sense of community. Classic WoW started feeling like retail once the shock value wore off. People talk the same, act the same, troll/grief the same.
    That’s because the people changed, and how they approach a game changed, too.

    Everything is faster now, people just don’t have the patience to stand in a city gathering a group anymore, they didn’t really like that part in the Vanilla days either (But it was required to get into dungeons), but nowadays most people just don’t put up with that sort of thing anymore and leave for another game, that’s also why removing group finders won’t help, people will leave rather than adapt to forming groups through zone chat again.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Rusken View Post
    The last big one would be to make professions actually worth something again. Needing people to craft major upgrades or specific items is a huge RPG aspect that Classic delivers perfectly.
    I forgot there are no vellums in classic and promptly dropped Enchanting lol

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by mysticx View Post
    people just don’t have the patience to stand in a city gathering a group anymore, they didn’t really like that part in the Vanilla days either
    Started in BC but I sure as fuck didn't enjoy standing in the city OR the zone where the dungeon was spamming for a group doing absolutely nothing.
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  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by mysticx View Post
    That’s because the people changed, and how they approach a game changed, too.

    Everything is faster now, people just don’t have the patience to stand in a city gathering a group anymore, they didn’t really like that part in the Vanilla days either (But it was required to get into dungeons), but nowadays most people just don’t put up with that sort of thing anymore and leave for another game, that’s also why removing group finders won’t help, people will leave rather than adapt to forming groups through zone chat again.
    Before I add to this I want to assume when you say group finder you mean automatic grouping not the manual forming of groups via ui?

    I actually think the game wouldn't really notice if LFD was removed at this point. Dungeons pre mythic play such a tiny part of the game that I think you could write them off as leveling content and people wouldn't notice.

  13. #113
    Ion's answer stunk of "there's nothing to learn from Classic for Retail, so I'll just say some ephemeral salesman stuff that'll make both sides fairly happy".

    Classic lovers were "justified" in a slight nod that Classic has something Retail is lacking.

    Retail lovers were more or less told nothing was changing, which justifies their belief that Retail isn't lacking.


    The idea that LFD/LFR killed the social aspect of the game is kind of laughable to me. Both in Classic and Retail groups are more or less silent. LFD/LFR makes them assemble more quickly and generally with the ability to clear the content. Any serious content in Retail is done through manual group creation and building a friends list anyway. My friends list on Retail vastly surpasses my friend list on Classic. In retail, I have access to all the people of both factions on all realms for help. In Classic I have a tiny section of the playerbase. In retail I have tremendous use for friends lists as I spam M+ and PvP. In Classic I made rank 12 solo queueing and I haven't walked into a dungeon since September since they offer nothing of value. My raids in both versions are handled by guilds. Completely anecdotal of course, since no actual study can really be done, but I've always chuckled at the idea of Classic community. I thought perhaps my memory was mistaken, but I was indeed right. For the way I play both versions of the game, community doesn't and didn't exist in Classic, at least nothing to the level that it has in Legion and BFA.
    Last edited by God Save The King; 2020-04-11 at 06:15 AM.
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  14. #114
    Old God Mirishka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mysticx View Post
    That’s because the people changed, and how they approach a game changed, too.

    Everything is faster now, people just don’t have the patience to stand in a city gathering a group anymore, they didn’t really like that part in the Vanilla days either (But it was required to get into dungeons), but nowadays most people just don’t put up with that sort of thing anymore and leave for another game, that’s also why removing group finders won’t help, people will leave rather than adapt to forming groups through zone chat again.
    Very true.
    Appreciate your time with friends and family while they're here. Don't wait until they're gone to tell them what they mean to you.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Laughingjack View Post
    Before I add to this I want to assume when you say group finder you mean automatic grouping not the manual forming of groups via ui?

    I actually think the game wouldn't really notice if LFD was removed at this point. Dungeons pre mythic play such a tiny part of the game that I think you could write them off as leveling content and people wouldn't notice.
    Yeah, i meant LFD there, although the outdoors group finder is nice for finding cross-realm world boss groups, that would be something people *might* do some asking around in zone chat for (Like people already do, calling out named mobs and treasure chests), but dungeons would be dropped like a hot potato if group-making went back to “Spam city chat”...

  16. #116
    Played classic.

    It was anti social as hell. People avoided elite quests. sniped chests. flamed you if you started to attack mobs in their aeo farming zone. no one talked in dungeons. Horde player seemed to be happy if I kill one of theirs, maybe because they had less people competing for mobs?

    1/10 from me on social aspect. Only good thing , we got so bored from walking to dungeons with friends in discord, one outed themself at one point which was hillarious.

    On the other hand if I look at Rbg / arena in retail, its pure social interaction

  17. #117
    Biggest killers for community feeling was cross realm and LFG tools.


    If I have to choose between qol and "mah community" I'll take qol any day of the week, thank you very much.

    In other words - I'm sceptic as to them being able to bring back that close community feeling without hurting the game in the process.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Skulltaker View Post

    "I hate all these people enjoying the game the way they like. They are having fun wrong."

    Your sense of community is a sham, mate. There is no more or less of it in retail then there was in vanilla. People who wanted to be jolly in groups were jolly in groups back then, and they are jolly in groups now. And people who just joined groups out of necessity did so back then, and are still doing that now. The dungeon finder, LFR and so on only does one thing, it cuts out time you wasted spamming the LFG chat and traveling the same path for the 507th time.
    Community is more than your guild and your m+ group, though, believe it or not.

    On retail I literally never see a single name I recognise, be it in the open world or idling in a city. I barely recognise the 30 people in my guild because I never talk to them outside raids. Everyone is always off doing their own thing in their hunt for small continuous upgrades.

    In classic you see the same names in the cities and open world, you see the same people adverising their shops og LFM-ing with all the valuables reserved. You know exactly who to avoid, because word speads fast (because everyone is bored)
    You know the gankers, you know where to never travel alone og unprepared.

    You talk to people while waiting for world bosses to spawn, and for those you have to cooperate with someone to ever see loot. And yes, it would have been easier to get loot if personal loot was a thing, but that would have destroyed the fun.

    I am so fucking glad Classic in no way is about getting upgrades all the time to clear new gear-gated content. You're good to go BWL with questrewards and easily farmable blues anyway and groups will bring you along if they know you. Our guild bring sosials since we're running 3-4 BWL groups with a few spare spots in each anyway.

    When people care more about how you behave than your gearscore, be it guilds or random people, that's when you've got a community.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    Are you retarded?? Just because my servers didn't have a leroy jenkins or what ever doesn't mean I didn't pay attention. If I've had more than one interaction with someone that was positive we probably added each other. It's really creepy how you keep trying to twist my words to prove yourself right when the fact that "named" people still exist on servers and people still help each other means the community is still there. Play with warmode off and you will often times have a member of the opposite faction help you if you are low health.

    Also:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number
    So if you seriously had all these hundreds of named individuals you must have had a pretty sad real life back then. Hope you have a better one today.
    Oh here we go we got a live one.

    Just because my servers didn't have a leroy jenkins or what ever doesn't mean I didn't pay attention.
    Yeah... if you couldn’t recognize a single name, then yeah you weren’t paying attention or you’re touched. Obviously you did, and you’re just lying about this to make retail look better in the light, Christ you probably didn’t even play vanilla.

    If I've had more than one interaction with someone that was positive we probably added each other.
    But how can you know if you had more than one interaction with them if you didn’t remember their names? LOL. Think about what bullshit you just said for a second. I’m going to act like you aren’t completely making this shit up for a second a play along. You say you didn’t just recognize names. But if you had more than one positive interaction they became your friends. How did your pea brain not know that wasn’t the very first time meeting them? Because for some reason you have the memory of a goldfish so how did you know?

    Also:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number
    So if you seriously had all these hundreds of named individuals you must have had a pretty sad real life back then. Hope you have a better one today
    Ok it’s fairly clear you’re losing it here buddy. Look, first of all, theres a difference between recognizing a familiar name, and having the name of every person memorized. Do you understand that? The thing you posted is about having a ‘stable relationship’, I’m talking about you just remembering a name you’ve seen before. Literally just glancing at a name, can make a memory for you to recall back to. Of course if you have the mind of a goldfish, like you, maybe you don’t understand this.

    And one more thing, I wouldn’t be commenting on how ‘pathetic’ someone’s life was 16 years ago for ‘remembering’ names when you are fully admitting that make friends to this day waiting for virtual cats in a video game, and that you ‘continue’ to make all these random friends online. Not saying there’s anything wrong with that, but if you think that recognizing names online 16 years ago makes a life pathetic, I would hate to see what you think about yourself right now.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by mysticx View Post
    Yeah, i meant LFD there, although the outdoors group finder is nice for finding cross-realm world boss groups, that would be something people *might* do some asking around in zone chat for (Like people already do, calling out named mobs and treasure chests), but dungeons would be dropped like a hot potato if group-making went back to “Spam city chat”...
    I can't see people going back to spamming trade chat for groups myself beyond mythic pugs since cross realm limits the functionality of lfg for them. Besides trade is now for spamming carry groups...

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