Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[Aurrora]

Doesn't matter that china covered it up Because WE KNEW ALREADY SHORTLY AFTER IT HAPPENED IN NOVEMBER.

Repeating a lie doesn't make it true.

[Rozz]

This is a thread for tracking the virus and updates. Stay on topic and be civil.

[Themius]

Repeating a lie doesn't make it true.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/inte...ry?id=70031273

As far back as late November, U.S. intelligence officials were warning that a contagion was sweeping through China’s Wuhan region, changing the patterns of life and business and posing a threat to the population, according to four sources briefed on the secret reporting.

Concerns about what is now known to be the novel coronavirus pandemic were detailed in a November intelligence report by the military's National Center for Medical Intelligence (NCMI), according to two officials familiar with the document’s contents.

The report was the result of analysis of wire and computer intercepts, coupled with satellite images. It raised alarms because an out-of-control disease would pose a serious threat to U.S. forces in Asia -- forces that depend on the NCMI’s work. And it paints a picture of an American government that could have ramped up mitigation and containment efforts far earlier to prepare for a crisis poised to come home.

"Analysts concluded it could be a cataclysmic event," one of the sources said of the NCMI’s report. "It was then briefed multiple times to" the Defense Intelligence Agency, the Pentagon’s Joint Staff and the White House. Wednesday night, the Pentagon issued a statement denying the "product/assessment" existed.

Okay so... the NCMI is lying and the Pentagon is lying and the entire intelligence agency is lying?????????

As was posted earlier, we don't know a lot about this virus, people were saying we got it from Asia hence why we closed to Asia but then it seems our strain actually came from Europe who we didn't close to. Trying to make this into some nationalist bullshit over a coronavirus isn't solving any issues, instead it just creates issues and fosters ignorance.

And there are very very very few viruses in existence that have geographic locators besides MERS which spread from camels, and was originally blamed on SA but actually came from Jordan. But that virus makes sense to have a geographic location because it is spread by animals that are concentrated in a certain geographic location

Viruses do not know borders lol.

[Aurrora]

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/inte...ry?id=70031273



Okay so... the NCMI is lying and the Pentagon is lying and the entire intelligence agency is lying?????????

So you're telling me american spies knew about this before Chinese doctors?

"As a matter of practice the National Center for Medical Intelligence does not comment publicly on specific intelligence matters. However, in the interest of transparency during this current public health crisis, we can confirm that media reporting about the existence/release of a National Center for Medical Intelligence Coronavirus-related product/assessment in November of 2019 is not correct. No such NCMI product exists," the statement said.

This is what the NCMI has said on the matter, you're the one accusing them of lying and a couple unnamed sources of telling the truth.

Are you seriously trying to deny that China is the origin of this virus too?

[Themius]

So you're telling me american spies knew about this before Chinese doctors?

"As a matter of practice the National Center for Medical Intelligence does not comment publicly on specific intelligence matters. However, in the interest of transparency during this current public health crisis, we can confirm that media reporting about the existence/release of a National Center for Medical Intelligence Coronavirus-related product/assessment in November of 2019 is not correct. No such NCMI product exists," the statement said.

This is what the NCMI has said on the matter, you're the one accusing them of lying and a couple unnamed sources of telling the truth.

Are you seriously trying to deny that China is the origin of this virus too?

Leakers in the white house have been proven time and time again... now you want to doubt them??? We also have reports from January, and December

We also know meetings were being held with senate members and donors saying how bad it was going to be while denying it in public. Are those all lies too?

November is just the earliest we know now. But there were more from December... and January.

China gets tourists, it could have spread from its neighbours much how MERS spread to Saudi Arabia from Jordan.

The older reports before the new ones showing we knew in November:

Top health officials first learned of the virus’s spread in China on January 3, US Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar said Friday. Throughout January and February, intelligence officials’ warnings became more and more urgent, according to the Post — and by early February, much of the Office of the Director of National Intelligence and the CIA’s intelligence reports were dedicated to warnings about Covid-19.

Fuck I guess Alex Azar is also lying, he's only the SECRETARY OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES

Now this says top health officials learned about it in January and the intelligence agencies continued to warn. So perhaps health officials didn't know the extent, but our intelligence agencies did.

China may or may not be the origin of the virus, it doesn't really matter though. Is America to blame for flu deaths linked back to some duck in Omaha?

[Aurrora]

Leakers in the white house have been proven time and time again... now you want to doubt them??? We also have reports from January, and December

We also know meetings were being held with senate members and donors saying how bad it was going to be while denying it in public. Are those all lies too?

November is just the earliest we know now. But there were more from December... and January.

China gets tourists, it could have spread from its neighbours much how MERS spread to Saudi Arabia from Jordan.

The older reports before the new ones showing we knew in November:



Fuck I guess Alex Azar is also lying, he's only the SECRETARY OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES

Now this says top health officials learned about it in January and the intelligence agencies continued to warn. So perhaps health officials didn't know the extent, but our intelligence agencies did.

China may or may not be the origin of the virus, it doesn't really matter though. Is America to blame for flu deaths linked back to some duck in Omaha?

What's your point here? January is a hell of a lot different than November, or are you already walking back that lie? Are you pretending that the Wuhan virus wasn't already in the news cycle in early January? If this originated somewhere other than China why do we not see a surge of deaths from a pneumonia-like illness prior to Wuhan?

[Khaza-R]

hmm Asian people have been physically attacked due to the mislabeling of this but sure... go ahead and continue down this line of bias.

And it literally isn't China's fault.

Sort of is China's fault though. They cling to barbaric tenants of chinese traditional medicine, live animal markets, and limited regulations on the sale and butchery of animals. Its literally a breeding ground for new interspecies viruses to pop up like SARS-CoV-2.

That's not to say it's irresponsible to not protect Asian Americans, but China the nation should most certainly be held accountable until they change their practices.

[Themius]

Sort of is China's fault though. They cling to barbaric tenants of chinese traditional medicine, live animal markets, and limited regulations on the sale and butchery of animals. Its literally a breeding ground for new interspecies viruses to pop up like SARS-CoV-2.

That's not to say it's irresponsible to not protect Asian Americans, but China the nation should most certainly be held accountable until they change their practices.

And new studies show that no... actually may not have came from wet market. So you’re going to get new talking points.

If this spread from just normal farming and livestock there really is nothing you can do.

- - - Updated - - -

What's your point here? January is a hell of a lot different than November, or are you already walking back that lie? Are you pretending that the Wuhan virus wasn't already in the news cycle in early January? If this originated somewhere other than China why do we not see a surge of deaths from a pneumonia-like illness prior to Wuhan?

It wasn’t a lie.. because there are reports in November... if you want to pretend you’re blind go ahead.

US spy agencies were tracking the rise of the novel coronavirus as early as November, weeks before that information was included in President Donald Trump's daily intelligence briefing, a former US military official told CNN.

While the exact date of the first report remains unclear, sources told CNN that intelligence gathered in November and in the weeks following offered multiple early warnings about the potential severity of the pandemic now surging in the US.

How is this a lie to say USA knew in November???

[Khaza-R]

And new studies show that no... actually may not have came from wet market. So you’re going to get new talking points.

If this spread from just normal farming and livestock there really is nothing you can do.

Source needed for your claim.

[Remilia]

@Skulltaker
I know you're not a virologist but curious on if you know anything about it.
So waaaay earlier there were videos of people in Wuhan just collapsing in the street (unsure if actually dead, but you get the idea). Then there was retired police sergeant in NYC that died in the street quite quickly after being diagnosed for the virus a few days ago, presumably due to cardiac arrest. How likely is it that a virus can travel from lung to heart? I did look it up that the heart tissues have ACE2 receptors that the virus uses to get inside the cells.

[Themius]

Source needed for your claim.

It’s linked above somewhere and another poster as well a couple pages back

[Forogil]

We're talking about whether or not the difference of having the infections double every 3 days or every 4 days would be noticeable. And it absolutely would be.

We were actually talking about whether a seasonal variation causing such a change would be noticeable.
Without mitigation it might decrease the peak by perhaps 25% - if the change is that large.

With mitigation it becomes almost impossible to tell, as part of seasonal decline during summer of other respiratory illnesses are due to temperature, schools closing, and people not being stuck close together indoors.
The temperature part will stay - but schools are already closed in most countries (so summer bring no additional benefit), and instead people are stuck together indoors (so we continue to get the downside of winter).

- - - Updated - - -

Madonna lost her brother, a cousin and a friend within 24 hours. That's rough.

It doesn’t care about how rich you are, how famous you are, how funny you are, how smart you are, where you live, how old you are, what amazing stories you can tell.

It’s the great equalizer, and what’s terrible about it is what’s great about it. What’s terrible about it is it’s made us all equal in many ways — and what’s wonderful about it is it’s made us all equal in many ways.

Like I used to say at the end of "Human Nature" every night, "We're all in the same boat. If the ship goes down, we’re all going down together."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUM6lXSxgn8

[Aurrora]

And new studies show that no... actually may not have came from wet market. So you’re going to get new talking points.

If this spread from just normal farming and livestock there really is nothing you can do.

- - - Updated - - -



It wasn’t a lie.. because there are reports in November... if you want to pretend you’re blind go ahead.



How is this a lie to say USA knew in November???

Because China didn't even know about it in November? Because a doctor in China trying to raise the alarm at the end of December was deemed a liar by the Chinese government? Because the NCMI says there's no such November report? You only have a sourceless article that's attempting to politicize the virus making this claim.

Yeah, you're right, it didn't come from the wet market, it came from the Wuhan Virology lab where they were in the process of hiring people to study coronaviruses in bats.

- - - Updated - - -

It’s linked above somewhere and another poster as well a couple pages back

The source of your claim directly disputes your claim, are you incapable of reading?

[Egomaniac]

We were actually talking about whether a seasonal variation causing such a change would be noticeable.
Without mitigation it might decrease the peak by perhaps 25% - if the change is that large.

I mean, I can quote you exactly on this:

It could also be that it slows down a bit, but whether the cases double every 4th or 3rd day without measures is hard to notice and doesn't make such a big difference.

What I have said repeatedly now is that if the cases changed from doubling every 3 days to doubling every 4 days instead... that's a huge difference and would be very noticeable especially if there are, as you said, no other measures being taken.

[Forogil]

How is this a lie to say USA knew in November???

We don't know if those alleged statements are true.

They might lie, they might misremember, or there might be another explanation.

One possibility is that they were further from the actual sources than they claim, and back-calculated the date based on when it appeared in the president's daily briefings - since it normally would have taken that long.

It's possible that the US had actually had somewhat relevant spy images and communication intercepts from November (or beginning of December - or spy images comparing December and November), but didn't put the pieces together back then. Later the spies went back and included that in the material sent to the White House - so someone in the White House might see November in the report and think that the military knew in November.

- - - Updated - - -

What I have said repeatedly now is that if the cases changed from doubling every 3 days to doubling every 4 days instead... that's a huge difference and would be very noticeable especially if there are, as you said, no other measures being taken.

You quoted and bolded, but you still missed that even then I wrote without measures, and that's still the key point.

How much the virus-spread slows down during summer if we don't take measures to stop the spread will be hard to notice, as some measures have the same effect as having summer all the time, some have the same effect as winter all the time.

[Skulltaker]

@Skulltaker
I know you're not a virologist but curious on if you know anything about it.
So waaaay earlier there were videos of people in Wuhan just collapsing in the street (unsure if actually dead, but you get the idea). Then there was retired police sergeant in NYC that died in the street quite quickly after being diagnosed for the virus a few days ago, presumably due to cardiac arrest. How likely is it that a virus can travel from lung to heart? I did look it up that the heart tissues have ACE2 receptors that the virus uses to get inside the cells.

That's a tough one.

Exhaustion can hit you like a truck. Adrenaline will keep you on your feet for some time, but at a certain point the body will basically just surrender. Happened to me once after a long surgery, at one moment I was talking to the patients family about how the procedure went and what to expect now, the next I was in my office, collapsed into my chair and couldn't get up for the life of me. And that was in my late 30es. Picture a small child, they can be energetic and run around the house, 3 minutes later they are exhausted and 2 minutes later they are fast asleep.
I'd assume many people tried to bulldoze their way through the infection, just like you see reports of people going to work with the flu, and so on. Which is incredibly unavoidable. The body has a number of responses to infection to suppress symptoms, just so you can keep going on for a while. But the toll it takes on the body accumulates, and your body basically tells you 'okay, time to rest.'

I'm assuming you're talking about Yon Chang? I haven't seen any article that mentions cardiac arrest, but from the ones I've skimmed, he was only 56 years old and retired? Is that normal for police officer in the US? Sounds a bit young, to be honest. Not that I begrudge him his retiremeIf I had to wager a guess I'd say he retired due to a health problem. He also discharged himself from the hospital against the advice of his doctors. I am cautiously assuming that he had a regular heart attack brought on by a combination of stress from the situation and fatigue from the infection. Maybe he already had a heart condition...? Pretty hard to say without seeing the results of the autopsy, but I'd be surprised if he suffered a heart attack as direct result from a Covid 19 infection.

[Egomaniac]

You quoted and bolded, but you still missed that even then I wrote without measures, and that's still the key point.

How much the virus-spread slows down during summer if we don't take measures to stop the spread will be hard to notice, as some measures have the same effect as having summer all the time, some have the same effect as winter all the time.

I didn't miss "without measures"...I specifically commented on it. If it drops from doubling every 3 days to every 4 days with no other measures taken...that's a huge difference. I'm not sure why you're trying to argue that it isn't

Here's the part of my response that you seemed to miss:

that's a huge difference and would be very noticeable especially if there are, as you said, no other measures being taken.

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

Where on earth are people going to vacation to right now anyway?

Here they are trying to discourage people to go to their vacations homes, be them lakeside mobile home, mountain chalet or cabin in the woods.

In France when they issued the lock down, a lot of Parisians left for their country homes, in some cases gathering their whole families ordinarily smattered across Europe in vacation spots who are now seeing population levels close to peak season, the resulting pressure on the local supply and health infrastructure can leave the locals touchy.

[Forogil]

Seems like it is not making much of a difference in Sweden where restaurants, bars, schools and everything else is open.

Things are rarely as simple as portrayed in head-lines.
Digging a bit more:

https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/...trol/covid-19/
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-...wn-sweden.html
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52076293
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world...ot-in-lockdown

Sweden haven't closed primary schools - but closed secondary schools, and universities.
There is no general lockdown, but people over 70 should stay "home" (they can go out for a walk).
Working from home is encouraged, but not mandatory.
Bars and shops are open, but there are fewer customers, and additional rules.

Obviously restrictions may change in the future.

For the specific measures:

As previously stated Denmark plan to reopen primary schools; based on a new report
https://www.sst.dk/-/media/Udgivelse...tus-6-uge.ashx

A lockdown for 70 and over seems to be one of the most effective measures according to a study at Imperial College, whereas school and university closures the least effective (travel restrictions were not considered in that study).
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/mrc-globa...s-on-covid-19/
Note that that study was written before the Danish study and thus recommend further lockdowns based on a higher fatality rate.

We will see if that works or not in the future (perhaps at the end of the year), but assuming it works the conclusion isn't that "lockdown is unnecessary", but that "lockdown should be targeted".

[Yunru]

45 dead reported now. (1188 infected) 16 cured only in this time. (from 5th march to april 10)

Now they are going after people who driver and they will temporary take the car and driving license if they find you driving out of safe zone.

Also some relgios people are now whining because they cant go to church to *Bless* the food.


And some were arrested because of it.