9.0 General Discussion

[Yarathir]

I like Oribos. I can't recall a lot of areas that have more vertical space than horizontal.

[Hallowseve17]

Oh man... I got excited reading Wowhead's troll customization post because I saw green skin, but it's not even in the new skin color section of that post. Don't get me wrong, I'm still excited for new troll customization.

It's early alpha so I remain hopeful, but if trolls can get dark troll and sand troll options, which is very exciting in its own right, then forest troll options (green skin) should come as well. Blizzard, I'm begging you.

[Marlamin]

But would they really just never make another new race ever again?

Yeah. No more new races ever, sorry guys. Can't have new races without allied races.

[EbaumsTipster]

Yeah. No more new races ever, sorry guys. Can't have new races without allied races.

Kul Tiran is a new race, labeled as an allied race because it has lore as a subrace. What's your point?

It's the first all new rig since Pandas. Surely it's a "new race" right?

[Valysar]

https://i.imgur.com/tyZL8b1.jpg

Those are the teleporters btw, they are plenty across Bastion and Oribos

[Hitei]

about new races? are you sure about that? every new very detailed humanoid NPC race from legion to bfa became allied race:

Nightborne, highmountain, Lf Draenei, Zandalari, Kul'tiran, Vulpera

What other did we didn't get? broken? they don't have females, why should we stop when is clearly a good popular feature that grab and please a lot of people?

Naga. Upgraded Ethereals with females confirmed. Let's also not forget many of the subjects of speculation during BfA, including but not limited to Quillboar, Gilgoblins, Ankoan, San'layn, Calia/Derek redeemed undead, etc.

There isn't really anything that previous new races would be allied races, until blizzard confirmed, but its clearly a pattern here:

They get introduced to the history, they will be very popular, requests will increase, and blizz can very well put then.

Still waiting on those Sethrak.

Apparently those races, most of the individuals at least, are born there, or either work like a reincarnation thing, they don't remember their previous lives, they have no memories at all, they are just that individual now, and could explore/help azeroth against threads like we help then.

Honestly it would not be different or worse from what we already had, so i don't see a problem.

Because right now people die > people go to the shadowlands > shadowlands has its own life cycle with its own cultures and peoples
And what you are proposing is:
People die > people go to the shadowlands and (maybe) lose memories > people leave the shadowlands and go back to azeroth as if they hadn't died

There's also just the complete fish out of water of the situation. What is a Venthyr not in the Shadowlands? Their entire society and technology is built around an energy unique to the shadowlands. Their entire culture is built around the progression of a soul towards ascension and it's proper place in the afterlife. Ditto Necrolords and defending the Shadowlands.

You take a mag'har orc out of Draenor and it's still an Orc with a tribe, the desire for glorious battle, practicing shamanism.
You take a Venthyr out of the Shadowlands and you get a blue winged guy who is in the completely wrong plane of existence, in direct opposition to their entire set of ideals and way of life.

[Yarathir]

I hope that for the tattoos we saw on night elf males, they will also be different colors and face and body tattoos will be separate.

And of course that night elf females get the same treatment.

[Jokubas]

Yup, that was definitely true at the time and arguably still is. It also might be worth noting that there are signs of them moving away from the Allied Race tech a bit more and baking it into the regular character system, likely in favor of the upcoming character creation/customization overhaul. Pretty speculative though as there currently isn't a lot of the new character stuff in yet.

I was wondering that myself. I thought it was weird the moment they showed us the Wildhammer options at BlizzCon that Dark Iron gets the full (well, allied) distinct race treatment but Wildhammer don't. Wildhammer dwarves could certainly disguise themselves as Ironforge dwarves by covering tattoos and wearing their hair differently, but they have a very different culture and could just as easily justify different racial abilities and arguably even the druid class (not historically, but the class has been stretched quite a bit by this point).

Not that I think that's necessarily a problem, and I'm definitely happy to get Wildhammer. Blizzard now seems to be encouraging us to roleplay the different clans or cultures now, which is honestly how I saw things until we got Allied Races.

In a lot of ways, I wonder if Allied Races ended up being a failed experiment. In theory, they were a way to get a lot of fun extra choices into the game with a lot less time and effort than entirely new races with entirely new models and animations, while being more exciting than just a new skin color or tattoo option.

In practice, they backed themselves into a corner of having to create ways to unlock them, a new questline, a starting area, racials that are distinct without being unbalanced, and in too many cases, entire new druid forms. Between that and the Kul Tirans (which they admitted were practically a classic race in terms of effort), they probably did far more work than the classic two new races per expansion.

And after all that, I feel like the new customization options from Shadowlands are already proving way more popular and way more universally positive.

I don't expect it to happen soon, but I'm honestly wondering if they're going to quietly roll in the redundant Allied Races at some point (Lightforged draenei, mag'har orc, etc.) into the new expanded customization system, and leave the Allied Races for things that are either entirely distinct (Vulpera) or cross the faction gap (Void elves, etc.). Even Kul Tirans could potentially be added as a "Body Type" for humans like Posture for orcs. Depending on how the new character creator works, they could always allow you to pick between things like the classic and Allied Race racial abilities or druid forms where applicable.

[Georg Von Vitzthum]

Yeah. No more new races ever, sorry guys. Can't have new races without allied races.

they did said the allied race system came to replace the old system, its more easy and less costly

[Marlamin]

Kul Tiran is a new race, labeled as an allied race because it has lore as a subrace. What's your point?

That was sarcasm. My point of the post before that is just that they appear to be merging the "Allied Race" system with the core character/race system (and vice-versa), by renaming the AlliedRaceRacialAbility database table to ChrRacesRacialAbility while at the same time beginning to add core race racials to it. This all likely for the new character creation UI that is coming later on in Alpha and could also explain all sorts of other changes to related files (such as the AlliedRace file).

they did said the allied race system came to replace the old system, its more easy and less costly

That likely only refered to the way the models are created. There really isn't that much of a difference to the game itself, just a model using another models base skeleton (tech that is also being used for non-race models now).

[Jokubas]

That was sarcasm. My point of the post before that is just that they appear to be merging the "Allied Race" system with the core character/race system (and vice-versa), by renaming the AlliedRaceRacialAbility database table to ChrRacesRacialAbility while at the same time beginning to add core race racials to it. This all likely for the new character creation UI that is coming later on in Alpha and could also explain all sorts of other changes to related files (such as the AlliedRace file).

Interesting, I was going to say that it depended on how Blizzard felt about the distinction between classic races and allied races, since we've never really gotten clarification on that, but I guess this is a sort of indirect clarification. It's always been easy to say that Allied Races are distinct by being simpler and based on existing skeletons and stuff, but Kul Tirans broke at least one of those rules (they were, at least, officially a "subrace" of humans), really blurring the line and making it hard to tell how they viewed playable characters going forward.

[EbaumsTipster]

I personally really doubt that we will ever see more than the occasional playable race that's built from the ground up, after Kul Tirans. There's only one in SL it seems and it's Venthyr... unless those animations aren't new. I think they are though.

More likely is new races that aren't subraces, but are built off an existing rig (see Fauns, currently, and Vulpera as examples).

[Jokubas]

I personally really doubt that we will ever see more than the occasional playable race that's built from the ground up, after Kul Tirans. There's only one in SL it seems and it's Venthyr... unless those animations aren't new. I think they are though.

More likely is new races that aren't subraces, but are built off an existing rig (see Fauns, currently, and Vulpera as examples).

Yeah, and I think that works for the most part. I guess the other thing I forgot to mention that traditionally distinguished them is classic races potentially having a capital and a whole starting zone, whereas Allied Races were more just there outside of their unlocking story (and only having a capital as a technicality in cases like the Zandalar and Kul Tirans), but I've said before that I'd gladly take ogres without any of that stuff if it just meant I could play an ogre (though I would really like to see a friendly city with Gorian architecture ;P).

At this point, they have pretty much any skeleton they want anyway, and they've done a really good job of reusing animations, at least in my opinion (and they've been doing it for a long time). I used to be bitter that Moonkin got all the memes for what started as ogre animations, but they've long since convinced me that the reusing is worth it.

[Georg Von Vitzthum]

Naga.

leg problems

Upgraded Ethereals with females confirmed

Kinda difficult to add a race with no body at all, just a mass of etheral energy with shape, they don't have a leader, a group a rep, a important role in the history.

maybe they will be a possibility in the expansion in their planet

. Let's also not forget many of the subjects of speculation during BfA, including but not limited to Quillboar, Gilgoblins, Ankoan, San'layn, Calia/Derek redeemed undead, etc.

Quilboar, ankoan and san'layn are just dead ends, that would never be a thing anyway, the first two don't have the "right" humanoid models, ankoan don't have females.

San'layn were villains to the alliance, people suggesting then were grasping at straws with the elf fever, they didn't had a updated model with new customization like the other, we only saw a few in the alliance war campaign.

Light undeads don't even exist, just Calia., gilgbolins are just the old model.

There is a big difference in the races above and the ones who already had everything in the files just waiting to be added

night fae and venthyr are clearly mirroring the Vulpera situation. If they will be playable its only depends of the playerbase, cause they are ready to go.
Still waiting on those Sethrak.

Because right now people die > people go to the shadowlands > shadowlands has its own life cycle with its own cultures and peoples
And what you are proposing is:
People die > people go to the shadowlands and (maybe) lose memories > people leave the shadowlands and go back to azeroth as if they hadn't died

it is implies with the blue people questline that you lose any previous memories.

And like i said, there is natural races, living races, born there, maybe the venthyr, the race itself and the night fae, are literally living things born there, not dead people, so they watch over the dead people.

Look at Kael, he was there paying for his sins, but he don't look venthyr at all.

There's also just the complete fish out of water of the situation. What is a Venthyr not in the Shadowlands? Their entire society and technology is built around an energy unique to the shadowlands. Their entire culture is built around the progression of a soul towards ascension and it's proper place in the afterlife. Ditto Necrolords and defending the Shadowlands.

And why they would not go to azeroth for a change? not every individual has the same ideology, its not like they can never come back, its not like every one of then will go to azeroth

you are putting to much sand on the subject when its rly a simple matter.

[EbaumsTipster]

Venthyr also technically matches up with Kul Tiran... it would give Horde ONE AR with a completely unique rig, similar to Alliance.

[Georg Von Vitzthum]

That likely only refered to the way the models are created. There really isn't that much of a difference to the game itself, just a model using another models base skeleton (tech that is also being used for non-race models now).

its refered that they don't have to create an entire new zone and questlines and wait an entire new expansion to add a new race, they could just take a group, put a rep grind a little chainquest to unlock and you have a new race., its also more easy cause you can reuse some old animations.

vulpera and kul'tirans are literally, new races, with the new system, i do think they use the allied race system over the old of a new starting zone and big chainquest.

[EbaumsTipster]

its refered that they don't have to create an entire new zone and questlines and wait an entire new expansion to add a new race, they could just take a group, put a rep grind a little chainquest to unlock and you have a new race., its also more easy cause you can reuse some old animations.

vulpera and kul'tirans are literally, new races, with the new system, i do think they use the allied race system over the old of a new starting zone and big chainquest.

Kul Tirans are a new race in terms of how it operates. Vulpera are only a new race in terms of lore. But together they have big implications for the future of ARs: I really don't think any will be subraces in lore, but they will mostly be more Vulperas (aka 3/4 of the Covenants).

They can be completely new rigs. They can be completely new creatures in lore. Since ARs can basically be the same as new races now, what's the problem with just adding in more ARs? They could make Ogre an "AR" if they wanted.

The only thing separating an AR from a Core Race now is a capital city.

[Alanar]

Been looking at npc animations and, not only am I in love with the visuals of the venthyr, but I am shocked to find that the robes on this model are animated with spell animations, attacks, etc.

I did and yes I agree they look amazing! I wish we had robe animations like that, they are super detailed tbh.

[Georg Von Vitzthum]

The only thing separating an AR from a Core Race now is a capital city.

basically what i was trying to say, you worded better than me.

i don't think, the blue people will be allied race i think. but Venthyr and night fae are already very popular, and im seeing the vulpera situation all over again

[Marlamin]

Kul Tirans are a new race in terms of how it operates. Vulpera are only a new race in terms of lore. But together they have big implications for the future of ARs: I really don't think any will be subraces in lore, but they will mostly be more Vulperas (aka 3/4 of the Covenants).

They can be completely new rigs. They can be completely new creatures in lore. Since ARs can basically be the same as new races now, what's the problem with just adding in more ARs? They could make Ogre an "AR" if they wanted.

The only thing separating an AR from a Core Race now is a capital city.

If it were up to me I would just start calling everything "races", some just have unlock requirements and/or are added during patch cycles. Only subraces should stay a technical term for character races that use other character race skeletons, but that's pretty much it.

Had a flashback from the past while typing "subraces" to us discovering the whole skeleton/animation sharing system (post from 7.3-era, we didn't even know the "Allied Race" term yet). Simpler times.