Shouldn't the Alliance have ousted Anduin or force him to abdicate at this point?

[Ardenaso]

• Saved Garrosh from death
• Approved Tyrande's call to attack Silithus without any safety nets
• Freed a valueable high priority prisoner -> betrayal of public trust
• Didn't do much effort to save the people in Teldrassil -> why not call in more Hydromancers, Frost Mages, or even the Draenei?
• Attacked Lordaeron right away without safety nets (had to be saved three times by luck)
• Vowed to recover Teldrassil before the Fourth War is over -> Teldrassil is recovered without the help of Anduin or the "main" Alliance Army at all, just the soldiers from Gilneas and Night Elves
• Compared Daelin to Arthas (I know Daelin attacked unprovoked, but it's insensitive and insulting to the Kul Tirans who just recently rejoined the Alliance)
• Refused to hold even the most immediate aggressors accountable (Belmont, Eyegouge, Liadrin, whoever assaulted Brennadam)
• Anything else against the Westfall poor and hungry and homeless?

Why does Velen, Arechron, Vereesa, Mordent, Tyrande, Malfurion, Danath, Three Dwarf Rules, and Turalyon even have to bow down to a 20> year old person who has little to no leading experience? Even in the Battle of Lordaeron, Anduin didn't have any backup plan nor any safety nets and they were just lucky that Jaina arrived. At this point everyone should see that Anduin is a Horde lapdog and he might as well offer Mount Hyjal, Hinterlands, Winterspring, Feralas, and Felwood to the Horde to appease them further. The Alliance needs to have some actual development and more internal conflict to actually mature and the leaders should come to their senses to put someone of wisdom and experience instead to lead them: Tyrande, Velen, or Turalyon.

I don't care what happens to Genn if this happens, but seeing that he gave a middle finger to Anduin to help the Night Elves - it would appear that he would follow Tyrande over Anduin

[Combatbutler]

I don't care what happens to Genn if this happens, but seeing that he gave a middle finger to Anduin to help the Night Elves - it would appear that he would follow Tyrande over Anduin

Very doubtful he sees Anduin as surrogate son of sorts.

[Sevyvia]

Welcome to WoW story, where people still pretend Blizzard have no Horde favoritism.

I'd recommend making a swift exit. I suffered with this shit for 10+ years until I'd finally seen enough to get it through my thick skull that they're biased. How many Alliance characters were made neutral? How many times does the Alliance have to suffer massive defeats and near genocides and then somehow continue to make peace after with the repeat offenders? How many pyrrhic "We lost 99% of our army but this one gnome pulled a bomb out his ass" victories do we need? Let's just add in an ineffectual, traitorous king. Why not.

Stop playing. Stop paying. The story is shit, and no amount of complaining will fix it. That is the only lesson learned from 15 years of WoW.

[Combatbutler]

Not to mention you seem to forget the main point of the wow Alliance to be as bland and downright naively stupid as possible.

Ultimately both factions are an absolute dumpster fire and not worth rooting for. Horde or Alliance, utterly meaningless, both are just downright garbage.

[Cherry123]

anduin shit i hope he rots in maw

[Delirus]

To my understanding it's not common knowledge that Anduin set Saurfang free. We as a Player know much more than most citizens of the alliance. Our ingame character knows much less than we ourselfs do. There are even some dialougues from alliance citizens in stormwind that wonder how Saurfang could escape and that there is only a rumor of Anduin helping him.

Anduin could have helped the nightelves yeah, but at that time there were other more important things to do than to stretch the army thin to recover a big piece of charcoal in the ocean. Tyrande is a bit unpatient for a leader that is a few thousand years old. I don't say Teldrassil isn't important and stuff, but a war on more fronts is just stupid and costs more lifes than necessary

[RadasNoir]

Welcome to WoW story, where people still pretend Blizzard have no Horde favoritism.

I'd recommend making a swift exit. I suffered with this shit for 10+ years until I'd finally seen enough to get it through my thick skull that they're biased. How many Alliance characters were made neutral? How many times does the Alliance have to suffer massive defeats and near genocides and then somehow continue to make peace after with the repeat offenders? How many pyrrhic "We lost 99% of our army but this one gnome pulled a bomb out his ass" victories do we need? Let's just add in an ineffectual, traitorous king. Why not.

Stop playing. Stop paying. The story is shit, and no amount of complaining will fix it. That is the only lesson learned from 15 years of WoW.

I saw the writing on the wall all the way back during Cataclysm, and even with how crummy and obvious the bias was back then, that's nothing compared to what Alliance players have had to suffer through since, hitting a particularly new low in BFA.

While I sympathize with the folks who attempt to keep struggling through, Sevyvia is right: at some point, you have to say enough is enough. Especially when you consider all of the interviews with the so-called writers from both during and after BFA, where it's obvious how out of touch they are with the playerbase, particularly that of the Alliance.

[Varodoc]

They're not getting rid of Anduin. These threads are getting tiring. It's not even beating a dead horse at this point, it's nuking it.

[owbu]

I know this is just an Anduin hatethread with some bare minimum effort arguments attached to "I just want Anduin to go". but if WoW wasn't high fantasy where the "good King" rarely gets ousted and public opinion isn't really a thing and we were in a gritty realism kind of story with politics and such, then Anduin would be the King who just won a war. People very rarely oust leaders who win wars.

And no "but actually he wasn't technically responsible" does not matter. People don't care. If you are King and you somehow win a war, chances are your head stays on your shoulders.

[Mirishka]

and no amount of complaining will fix it.

So why are you complaining then?

[Halfaheart]

Welcome to WoW story, where people still pretend Blizzard have no Horde favoritism.

I'd recommend making a swift exit. I suffered with this shit for 10+ years until I'd finally seen enough to get it through my thick skull that they're biased. How many Alliance characters were made neutral? How many times does the Alliance have to suffer massive defeats and near genocides and then somehow continue to make peace after with the repeat offenders? How many pyrrhic "We lost 99% of our army but this one gnome pulled a bomb out his ass" victories do we need? Let's just add in an ineffectual, traitorous king. Why not.

Stop playing. Stop paying. The story is shit, and no amount of complaining will fix it. That is the only lesson learned from 15 years of WoW.

If you feel personally attacked by this maybe its a good thing you dont play anymore lol everything is good in moderation


OT: Did the alliance have 4 king's slaughtered over the last 15 years? I don't think so. They haven't given the horde any prominent characters to work with and thats why all of the major RTS characters that were 'alliance' ended up neutral. Plus, alot of the outlier factions that people assume are delegated to the alliance are/have been neutral since the start of WOW

[Manariel]

To my understanding it's not common knowledge that Anduin set Saurfang free. We as a Player know much more than most citizens of the alliance. Our ingame character knows much less than we ourselfs do. There are even some dialougues from alliance citizens in stormwind that wonder how Saurfang could escape and that there is only a rumor of Anduin helping him.

Anduin could have helped the nightelves yeah, but at that time there were other more important things to do than to stretch the army thin to recover a big piece of charcoal in the ocean. Tyrande is a bit unpatient for a leader that is a few thousand years old. I don't say Teldrassil isn't important and stuff, but a war on more fronts is just stupid and costs more lifes than necessary

Anduin did far worse than just not reclaim it. He sacrificed dozens of Night Elves in a suicide mission only to refuse to press the attack, when his dumb plan backfired. Who could have thought that assault openly the Zandalari without enough force to make sure that they wouldn't be able to play another role in the war would lead to them joining the Horde fully, right ?

I guess he really has shown some serious incompetence, in Orgrimmar (it's incredibly dumb to flood a city with so much spies that the enemy knows they are spied upon), Lordaeron (his battle plan was terrible and he neede three deus ex machina to survive : Jaina, Alleria and the Void Elves and then jaina again).

But he is the King of Stormwind, so ousting him is hard, because somehow it's still the powerhouse of the Alliance, and it seems that Dwarves, GNomes and Draenei, at least, are happy to serve Stormwind as vassal states instead of independent nations.

[Oneirophobia]

They're not getting rid of Anduin. These threads are getting tiring. It's not even beating a dead horse at this point, it's nuking it.

Oh boy, here comes Alleria Fanclub President #62 with the usual "shut the thread down if it's not about my waifu" post. You're in virtually every thread about every character complaining that there are threads about the character. Give it a rest. It doesn't contribute at all and is basically spam.

Furthermore, at no point did OP write "remove Anduin," he's asking why there is zero resistance to Anduin's "tolerance and love" approach to a bunch of genocidal maniacs. You may not notice that the Alliance is written as one giant, agreeable hivemind but it's understandable when others have noticied and want to talk about it.


---


More specifically on topic, the Alliance needs personality outside of their leadership's characters. The Horde got an interesting perspective with the Vulpera recruitment scenario, you got to see that peons and laborers weren't being treated well and that Horde operations were beginning to deteriorate as a consequence.

You never see that kind of thing on the Alliance side. Aside from extremely rare one-liners, everyone is always working in perfect harmony in a weird utopian society, free of xenophobia or unsavory problems, each and every peasant of every race having a 100% approval rating of their governing body. Until Darkshore and Tyrande, but Blizzard "concluded" that story. Fortunately we MIGHT see more of Tyrande lashing out against the Alliance Hivemind in Ardenwaeld, but again, we don't see the perspectives of her people - just Tyrande.

What bothers me most about this is we know Blizz can write a fully iterated society with good depth. Suramar and the Nightborne were excellent examples of this. We saw how decisions made by Elisande and the Dusk Lily revolutionaries affected every part of society, from the rich nobles all the way down to the poor and the exiled. The campaign wasn't just Elisande and Thalyssra in a vacuum with the rest of the Nightborne relegated to drone-like, opinionless status. like the Alliance tends to be.


Interestingly, on RP servers you see a lot of the stuff I wish Blizz would write into the factions. One example was a huge protest at Light's Hope chapel by the Lightforged and the humans when the void elves moved into Stormwind. Of course that would happen, neither of those two races would be very welcoming at all of void users, but we never see things like that from the Alliance.

TL;DR - the Alliance is sorely lacking in flavour, and instead of being a collection of wildly different races with only their shared connection to the Light and/or aversion towards the Horde tenuously holding them together, the faction has become just 3-5 governing characters existing in a vacuum. Anduin as a character actually suffers in quality because of this, as the character would be objectively more interesting when faced with resistance from his own people and having to adjust and strategize to survive it. Everyone doing what he wants without question (except Tyrande for all of 3 minutes) and understanding his perspective only serves to make him a less interesting character.

[Delirus]

Anduin did far worse than just not reclaim it. He sacrificed dozens of Night Elves in a suicide mission only to refuse to press the attack, when his dumb plan backfired. Who could have thought that assault openly the Zandalari without enough force to make sure that they wouldn't be able to play another role in the war would lead to them joining the Horde fully, right ?

Yeah that plan was stupid.

[Varodoc]

Oh boy, here comes Alleria Fanclub President #62 with the usual "shut the thread down if it's not about my waifu" post. You're in virtually every thread about every character complaining that there are threads about the character. Give it a rest. It doesn't contribute at all and is basically spam.

Furthermore, at no point did OP write "remove Anduin," he's asking why there is zero resistance to Anduin's "tolerance and love" approach to a bunch of genocidal maniacs. You may not notice that the Alliance is written as one giant, agreeable hivemind but it's understandable when others have noticied and want to talk about it.


---


More specifically on topic, the Alliance needs personality outside of their leadership's characters. The Horde got an interesting perspective with the Vulpera recruitment scenario, you got to see that peons and laborers weren't being treated well and that Horde operations were beginning to deteriorate as a consequence.

You never see that kind of thing on the Alliance side. Aside from extremely rare one-liners, everyone is always working in perfect harmony in a weird utopian society, free of xenophobia or unsavory problems, each and every peasant of every race having a 100% approval rating of their governing body. Until Darkshore and Tyrande, but Blizzard "concluded" that story. Fortunately we MIGHT see more of Tyrande lashing out against the Alliance Hivemind in Ardenwaeld, but again, we don't see the perspectives of her people - just Tyrande.

What bothers me most about this is we know Blizz can write a fully iterated society with good depth. Suramar and the Nightborne were excellent examples of this. We saw how decisions made by Elisande and the Dusk Lily revolutionaries affected every part of society, from the rich nobles all the way down to the poor and the exiled. The campaign wasn't just Elisande and Thalyssra in a vacuum with the rest of the Nightborne relegated to drone-like, opinionless status. like the Alliance tends to be.


Interestingly, on RP servers you see a lot of the stuff I wish Blizz would write into the factions. One example was a huge protest at Light's Hope chapel by the Lightforged and the humans when the void elves moved into Stormwind. Of course that would happen, neither of those two races would be very welcoming at all of void users, but we never see things like that from the Alliance.

TL;DR - the Alliance is sorely lacking in flavour, and instead of being a collection of wildly different races with only their shared connection to the Light and/or aversion towards the Horde tenuously holding them together, the faction has become just 3-5 governing characters existing in a vacuum.

No I'm not lmaoo.

I'm telling you the truth, simple. Anduin is not going away, so Alliance is not ousting him, because clearly Blizz does not intend to dump Anduin. It's simple.

[Rend Blackhand]

Welcome to WoW story, where people still pretend Blizzard have no Horde favoritism.

-Shoehorned into bad guys with Garrosh, many Orc characters dead
-WoD was an entire expansion of guilt free orc murder, alliance expansion
-Vol'Jin did nothing and died
-No significant Horde presence in Legion, a few token blood elves in Argus
-Didn't win at Teldrassil, Sylvanas burned the tree instead of conquering
-Saurfang turned into a pussy, didn't kill Malfurion and became suicidal dumbass
-Thrall neutered
-Siege of Orgrimmar AGAIN. Horde once again forced to be either bad guys are alliance boot lickers
-Rastakhan portrayed as a clown and was a side character in his own kingdom then killed
-Warchief position abolised because Thrall is a coward
-Lost Arathi and Darkshore warfronts
-Derek and Calia poised to take over Forsaken faction, Undead controlled by Alliance aligned characters
-Forsaken lost more established characters to the villain bat. Who's the big shot now? Voss?
-Gallywix forced out for no reason
-Horde player forced to give sylvanas a fucking old god dagger

Please let me know if I've missed anything. The Alliance won BFA by miles. Horde gained nothing, not close to breaking even either.

[Oneirophobia]

No I'm not lmaoo.

Please don't make me go back into Sylvanas threads and pull your posts out.

I'm telling you the truth, simple. Anduin is not going away, so Alliance is not ousting him, because clearly Blizz does not intend to dump Anduin. It's simple.

OP didn't ask to get rid of him, he's asking why nobody on the Alliance has tried. It's a very good question. Why does the entire Alliance agree with Anduin? Even Jaina and Genn do now, but at least one of them has had some meaningful progress towards the point of agreement. You'd think the citizenry, you know, the ones burning and being conscripted to die for the orcs and their problems again would have had enough. But nope, hivemind! It's like the Alliance is actually the Aqir.

[Varodoc]

Please don't make me go back into Sylvanas threads and pull your posts out.



OP didn't ask to get rid of him, he's asking why nobody on the Alliance has tried. It's a very good question. Why does the entire Alliance agree with Anduin? Even Jaina and Genn do now, but at least one of them has had some meaningful progress towards the point of agreement. You'd think the citizenry, you know, the ones burning and being conscripted to die for the orcs and their problems again would have had enough. But nope, hivemind! It's like the Alliance is actually the Aqir.

You mean that thread in which not a single one of my post was offensive and I never got a warning?

And I answered. Nobody complains because Blizzard is not interested in removing Anduin. No one said you had to give an in-universe reason.

[Manariel]

-WoD was an entire expansion of guilt free orc murder, alliance expansion

LOL.

The Horde got the most out of this expansion. The Draenei finally had a second character fleshed out, then he was immediately killed and his replacement was turned into a villain so the Horde could get its Mag'har.

Let's also not talk about Admiral taylor, who died like a chump and was never made important again, when Nazgrim at least became one of the Four Horsemen (and will perhaps play a role in the Shadowlands).

Also, the Alliance lost BFA. it barely managed to keep a zone which was his to begin with, and only once it had been utterly ruined (Darkshore), managed to win Arathi only to have lost Ashenvale, Dustwallow Marsh, Hillsbrad and more, since Cataclysm onward. We don't even know what concession Anduin will give to the Horde while he'll be pleading for peace, after having debased himself praising a butcher with children's blood on his hand in Orgrimmar...

Some victory it is.

[Oneirophobia]

-Rastakhan portrayed as a clown and was a side character in his own kingdom then killed

To be fair, Rastakhan's entire character centered on him being a clown. He's always been a clown and crap leader.

In vanilla he sent a token force of 20-30 lower caste Zandalari to deal with Hakkar, a being who represented the same threat that previously almost wiped out Zandalar. Understaffed and under prepared, the Yojamba trolls had to rely on the assistance of other races to thwart Hakkar. What was Rastakhan thinking?

During the Cataclysm (but shown in MoP), Zul (who's visions had been nothing short of infallible until then) had seen all of Zandalar slip beneath the waves and everyone drown. Despite this clearly beginning to happen in Nazmir, Rastakhan did nothing. Zul and any Zandalari unsatisfied with the "it's fine guys lol we're not sinking" got on ships against Rastakhan's orders and went to Pandaria to try and secure a non-sinking island to resettle to. It's complete luck that Rastakhan happened to be right about Zandalar only partially sinking. Go to Isle of Giants in pandaria and read the diaries dropped by Zandalari there. A few of them talk about how useless Rastakhan is and how he's going to drown with the rest of their people if they don't get their act together.

Whether or not you agree with Zul's actions of disobeying Rastakhan, Rastakhan did nothing to punish Zul for both taking a quarter of the Zandalari navy and rekindling ties with the Mogu, both actions Rastakhan explicitly forbid. There were no consequences. What kind of message does that send to your people? Zul was also forbidden from going to Zul'aman and Zul'gurub during the Cataclysm and rallying the trolls there. He did it anyway. There were also no consequences. There are never any consequences for disobeying the king. He's too busy sitting in his chair being a lazy clown.

By the time BfA rolls around, most of Rastakhan's council has forsaken him and begun plans to usurp him. People are starving to death in the streets, crime is rampant, the other troll tribes are wreaking havoc, and blood trolls have started moving into the city. Nazmir's burgeoning blood troll population is actively attacking the northern border with guerilla warfare and, even though his own daughter warns him about all this he still sits on his ass and does nothing.

He had always sat on his ass and did nothing. It's the reason Zul and the rest of the Zanchuli turned on him to begin with!

And then of course there's his decision to enslave the entire royal blood line to Bwonsamdi, but you already know how that went.

He is well and thoroughly a clown. Always has been. He's basically troll Gallywix. He just wants to sit on his ass, relax, and have grapes fed to him by concubines all day.