Battle for Azeroth & Alts

[klaps_05]

Players: We dont like min/maxing.
Also players: I cant do 30 min of dailies of an alt because its not efficient for my time.

8.3 is fine for alts and you get to 470 within a few resets.

[kamuimac]

Players: We dont like min/maxing.
Also players: I cant do 30 min of dailies of an alt because its not efficient for my time.

8.3 is fine for alts and you get to 470 within a few resets.

people are just dishonest

honest thing would be that they want to turn wow into lobby based raiding/mythic+ symulator.

[Powerogue]

It's okay. Less to look forward to than Legion but at least the traitor/loyalist/alliance stuff was different enough to be worth making a few alts. First time I've raided outside of my main rogue, and probably going to stay that way with Shadowlands if they keep messing him up. It's good to have alts to fall back on.

[Azerate]

I think the idea that progressing your main should automatically progress your multiple alts in the same pace is fundamentally flawed. Every character is a separate, distinct entity in the game world, and while some skips for cutscenes, story content etc. are understandable (much like it's done in 8.3), it doesn't make sense if the character can skip everything and be on par with characters that actually go through all those questlines, story bits, and daily tasks. I think alt-friendliness is just another buzzword that is thrown around.

True, back in the day there were less hoops to jump through to be raid-ready, arena-ready etc. but at the same time, leveling process was way longer and tedious. Having multiple alts in Vanilla/TBC was already considered a nolifing feat. As time passed by, leveling started getting gradually faster and easier, but that weight of preparing your character got shifted to the endgame.

Players: We dont like min/maxing.
Also players: I cant do 30 min of dailies of an alt because its not efficient for my time.

8.3 is fine for alts and you get to 470 within a few resets.

This

Also:
Players: o em gee the game has no RPG elements anymore! the MMO aspect is gone and the RPG aspect is also gone! Actiblizz!
Players: shit I actually have to do 1 hour of intro quests on a character before I can clear the raid? trash design, I shouldnt be forced to play the game at all

[Jazzhands]

Yeah, will stop making alts as long as they require more than just gear(one passive grind - neck/artifact is enough). Waiting for Shadowlands though.

The neck grind basically isn't a thing anymore. You can hit 80 in like a week or two without focusing much on it specifically.

[leorana]

Back in wrath you had 1(!) Heroic daily for emblems, and if you raided you didn't even need to do that.

Rep wasn't gated, and you could use tabards to get it up (not that it was needed since best gear still came from raiding and raiding patterns).

Only rep gating in wrath was ashen verdict, in which after getting to honored trash stopped giving any, just bosses and valks.


I've recently decided to level some alts. Got them to max lvl - but that's it. Not going to grind dailies on each, assaults, and mementos on each (barely got time to do it on my main)

[kaminaris]

Players: We dont like min/maxing.
Also players: I cant do 30 min of dailies of an alt because its not efficient for my time.

8.3 is fine for alts and you get to 470 within a few resets.

What 30 minutes daily lol. I play 30 minutes besides raids/m+ weeky not daily.
Just the big invasions and maybe, just maybe a small ones. No dailies, no that super small mini invasion, no world quests, no emissaries, no islands (but I do liked it moderately).

[Drusin]

5th Option: Yeah I like alts and I keep my ass out of BFA

But it's cool, let people wonder why there's no tanks or healers roflmao

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Back in wrath you had 1(!) Heroic daily for emblems, and if you raided you didn't even need to do that.

Rep wasn't gated, and you could use tabards to get it up (not that it was needed since best gear still came from raiding and raiding patterns).

Only rep gating in wrath was ashen verdict, in which after getting to honored trash stopped giving any, just bosses and valks.


I've recently decided to level some alts. Got them to max lvl - but that's it. Not going to grind dailies on each, assaults, and mementos on each (barely got time to do it on my main)

The glory days.

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It sounds like you dislike what the game is now, which is fine, but it might be time to move on if this is the case, as it's pretty unlikely to change.

How many times has the game changed over the years? What makes you think the game won't change?
It's looking like it's going to change in SL but we'll have to see.
How will he know that the game has changed in a manner that he approves of if he quits?

[leorana]

5th Option: Yeah I like alts and I keep my ass out of BFA

But it's cool, let people wonder why there's no tanks or healers roflmao

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The glory days.

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How many times has the game changed over the years? What makes you think the game won't change?
It's looking like it's going to change in SL but we'll have to see.
How will he know that the game has changed in a manner that he approves of if he quits?

I liked your response about people telling others to quit the game, while also being surprised why do they even care if allready left.

For me, I just to...invested in it, even if it's no longer fun for me. Same like being in a relationship - you endure the hard parts and hoping for somthing to change.

I'm willing to bet there are many players that had way shorter RL relationships than /played, so why would it surprise anyone they care for that game? Or the characters they built and developed?

I loved my demo lock - and DH took it from me. I just started to heal with HPal (after only doing rdruid for years) - just to learn that HoPo is making a comeback...

Blizz game design isn't perfect - and Ion has no problem admitting that. Never heard Ion say "well, if you don't like it - unsub. You won't be missed".

[Doffen]

Two of my alts got higher item level and corruption than my main while 2 is around the same as main ilvl wise, but better corruptions. So I might as well say 4 alts are better geared.

Main is at 85(no AP emissaries done last 5-6 weeks, barely any before it and I get all AP from m+ and raids) while the four better or just as good geared alts are at 81, 81,80 and 80. And a couple with 75 to 80. All the alts I play got bis essences and more now except two. But then again 2 hours played a week on one character only gives you so much.

Got to 120 on my DK 2 weeks ago. 460 ilvl, 81 in the neck and 7 rank 3 essences I think which I have bought except two. Playing that char like 80% of my gametime since I got it to 120, gonna be my new main for Shadowlands. Given up on the main now because fuck corruption rng. My best corrupted item got TD rank 3, but at 425 ilvl. Doesn't matter much since ilvl means fuck all because of corruption but it shows how little the thought process has been behind it. Glad they acknowledged it in the interview where they said the missed the tuning completely. But its too late now to tune it more. And to me it seems to be the reason why they go away from those initial plans to make something similar in Shadowlands. Let loot be loot!

Saying all this, I don't think powering up alts to the main level is very important. Having different stuff to do is way more important. Legion was awesome there, BfA not. People say WoD was alt friendly right. Not at all in my book. Getting power on the alts is useless when you just end up with doing the exact same content on them, especially when its nothing else than raids. At least its an issue in BfA where many classes are slowed down as well. For me Legion was the peak of alt friendliness because playing different classes gave you different stories, different questlines, different rewards and different challenges. At the same time getting 90% of the Artifact weapon points in one emissary from Nighthold and easier in later patches made it easy to keep alts up in power. It's the same as it is now, just boring in BfA in comparison.

But the new peak for me will be in Shadowlands from the looks of it. Really promising both to the different story and gameplay aspect of it while at the same time have alts in mind when designing it(getting to choose covenant at 50 when main has finished it is awesome)

[Sharby]

The only hard part about alts now is the cape, but cape doesn't mean anything for tanks and healers. And you can still do good dps without it.


So I'd say BFA rocks for alts atm.

[Gestopft]

I've got all classes above 455 iLvl, cloak to level 12 or higher on all but one. Essences/Cloak have been pretty unfriendly for alts, but otherwise the rest of the catch-up stuff has been pretty easy.

[kamuimac]

I've got all classes above 455 iLvl, cloak to level 12 or higher on all but one. Essences/Cloak have been pretty unfriendly for alts, but otherwise the rest of the catch-up stuff has been pretty easy.

respect.

i pushed cloaks on 3 alts to levels 12-13 over weekend but sweet jezus that was sooooooo boring to run the same stuff milion times -_-

[Big Thanks]

Unfriendly?

I got to 430 item level in one all nighter i pulled without sleeping.
You get gear while getting your cloak and you can skip most of the scenarios.
Already got one rank 3 essense i got with the new currency.

Why is it unfriendly again?

[Devilyaki]

Boosted one the other day, takes a while to get it to a point to start. Get essences, cloak, some gear and what not. Need the cloak so that starting quest is rather long, not hard just time consuming and essences are annoying

[Jazzhands]

5th Option: Yeah I like alts and I keep my ass out of BFA

But it's cool, let people wonder why there's no tanks or healers roflmao

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The glory days.

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How many times has the game changed over the years? What makes you think the game won't change?
It's looking like it's going to change in SL but we'll have to see.
How will he know that the game has changed in a manner that he approves of if he quits?

It's clear the route Blizzard has taken, and will continue to take at this point. People want more and more to do outside of raids, this is part of why WoD was such a massive failure. If things aren't tied to player power in some way, people are typically significantly less interested in doing it. On top of that, Blizzard wants people who want to play this content, as those are the people who stay subbed the longest typically. The game no longer revolves around raids like it did in the days of yore, and WoD proved it's no longer a sustainable model.

We might not have an AP type grind in SL, but we will likely still have dailies or world quests, emissary, possibly assault type weekly things, rep grinds via these dailies, and of course Torghast, although Torghast is very similar to a dungeon so that's kind of moot. And we don't know what systems are to come. We might get another essence type system, or a weird system to compliment Torghast by giving you more items to make legendaries and such. Either way, it's clear Blizzard wants to continue to add daily content and such outside of raids, at this point it's their best option for generating revenue and keeping the game going.

And the OP can easy check in on the multitude of WoW fan sites for news about the game and it's direction. All you have to do is keep up with news about large patches, which is easy as we only get them every few months. I've taken plenty of breaks and done this, it takes an incredibly small amount of time every few months.

[WowIsDead64]

Hey guys, as you know, BFA is one of the most unfriendly expansion for alts. What's your opinion about it?

I personally hate the grinds for doing actual content. Of course alts shouldn't be as strong as the mains, but in the old days all we needed to do was like... just show up in raid/M+ and gear them up. There were still things to grind, but they weren't as important/grindy as it is in BFA.
I could understand the neck, azerites and essences farm, but now? Cloak(+dailies for it) and corruption is too much for me. I know that gear alone is still very important, don't get me wrong, but without all the arsenal that is grindable you wouldn't be able to even come close to your main in terms of competitive play.

I eventually stopped caring about the alts, because they took too long time for me. I have other things to do. I've had enough of doing dailies on my main and there's no way I could play on my alts the way I'd like to without grinding.

How can alts feel in xpack with (almost) INFINITE grinds on main? They're benched. I play main only now. But 8.3 dailies are so boring and stressful due to excessive competition, that I just stopped doing them. And visions just aren't my content, I guess. I do cloak quest only and it just tells me to do the same again, again and again, more, more and more times. Get 1 item, get 2 items, get 4 items, get 6 items. Booooo. I do expeditions to get last needed mount and unsub.

[Bloodyleech]

My "main" from this expansion is around 455 (rank 10 cloak), and for the past several weeks, the only time I log onto him is when Timewalking is active so I can finish the 500 badge quest. I have 4 or 5 more significantly below that... only 1 of them even has the cloak (rank 4?), and one doesn't even have wq's unlocked yet. Alts fall into the "I just can't be bothered" category this expansion, much like the expansion itself.

How one of them can't have unlocked wq's yet? You speak to your captain on your ship and they are unlocked instantly..?

[Eazy]

The neck grind basically isn't a thing anymore. You can hit 80 in like a week or two without focusing much on it specifically.

Yes, that's why I called it passive grinding. It's something you don't really need to focus on, you'll get there while doing pretty much any content.

Players: shit I actually have to do 1 hour of intro quests on a character before I can clear the raid? trash design, I shouldnt be forced to play the game at all

There's a difference between playing on main and alt. I actually enjoy long questlines, RPG in MMORPG, all kind of things. But I seriously wouldn't like to do them again... and again... and again.

people are just dishonest

honest thing would be that they want to turn wow into lobby based raiding/mythic+ symulator.

I'd like to do the content I like. That's all.

Players: We dont like min/maxing.
Also players: I cant do 30 min of dailies of an alt because its not efficient for my time.

8.3 is fine for alts and you get to 470 within a few resets.

First of all, that's exagerration. Second thing it's not 30 min, especially for low ilvl characters. Even if it was, it's still too long, I have other, better things to do(than dailies/vision runs/cloak quest-line). And yes, it's not efficient for me doing repetitive things I don't like to do. It's a game after all, I want to play it because I like it, not because I want to make it my another job/chore.

How can alts feel in xpack with (almost) INFINITE grinds on main? They're benched. I play main only now. But 8.3 dailies are so boring and stressful due to excessive competition, that I just stopped doing them. And visions just aren't my content, I guess. I do cloak quest only and it just tells me to do the same again, again and again, more, more and more times. Get 1 item, get 2 items, get 4 items, get 6 items. Booooo. I do expeditions to get last needed mount and unsub.

Exactly.

[Jazzhands]

Nice exaggeration there.

470 within a few resets is a bit exhaggerated unless you have a guild to help gear and such with m+.

That being said, in like 10 days doing bare minimum I have a paladin tank that's about 440, level 79 neck, and three purple essences. I do assaults, the one daily that gives 1500 visions, Horrific visions, emissary (I wait for three to be up in case any stack to save time), I've done weekly islands only once, and ive done some LFR. I've had one reset for this character, i hit 120 on a Sunday so I didn't even get the double minor assault.

This character can easily start pugging lower m+ to get geared for normal raids and continue on. At this point I can ignore like 60% of emissaries, don't need to do islands anymore as I'll hit neck level 80 the next time I blink, because even 79-80 is only a few thousand AP, 50-76 is literally 1k per level. Assaults go super fast. I don't need to do LFR anymore. All in less than two weeks, and around 1-2 hours a day, I can jump into M+ and raids. And I did it all solo.

The problem is people who don't want to do these "chores", and, well, I guess you'll just have to get a guild to help carry your alts then. Good luck.