Shouldn't the Alliance have ousted Anduin or force him to abdicate at this point?

[Ardenaso]

he compared Daelin to Arthas? Lol wtf, where was this and howd i miss this.

"Arthas, Daelin, the sins of the past haunt us as well" like he could've said Cordana/Garithos/Blackmoore instead

[Feanoro]

Welcome to WoW story, where people still pretend Blizzard have no Horde favoritism.

I'd recommend making a swift exit. I suffered with this shit for 10+ years until I'd finally seen enough to get it through my thick skull that they're biased. How many Alliance characters were made neutral? How many times does the Alliance have to suffer massive defeats and near genocides and then somehow continue to make peace after with the repeat offenders? How many pyrrhic "We lost 99% of our army but this one gnome pulled a bomb out his ass" victories do we need? Let's just add in an ineffectual, traitorous king. Why not.

Stop playing. Stop paying. The story is shit, and no amount of complaining will fix it. That is the only lesson learned from 15 years of WoW.

Preach, brother.

[Ardenaso]

1. "Saved garrosh from death" what?
2. uhhh what?
3. who, saurfang? yeah he is a kind, he can make pardons, especially if that man would then go on to work with him to destroy the enemy.
4. what? he didnt know they were going to burn it, he is not a fortune teller, he couldnt forsee the horde would burn it, and think ahead to stop people
5. you copy/poasted this
6. yeah... he vowed he would help when he got the chance, and they got it back before he could help, that is not his fault
7. you fucking serious?
8. what?
9. they were dealt with lore wise long ago, but its stuck in cataclysm.

holy fuck.

oh, didn't noticed I doubled Saurfang. my bad

[Feanoro]

"Arthas, Daelin, the sins of the past haunt us as well" like he could've said Cordana/Garithos/Blackmoore instead

And then he might have had a point. Instead, they had him use Horde player talking points.

[Xilurm]

Anduin is a fucking idiot. How much more people have to die for him to act like a fucking leader? Leaders should put their own race first, then their faction second. But it seems more and more that Anduin care way more for the Horde.

It's so stupid.

They are going into a good direction with Tyrande hating the Horde's guts. I have it a couple of patches before they ruin that and make her neutral again.

Whats more annoying is people crying about the faction war. Blizzard shouldn't end the faction war and remove factions from the game, they should make better story around them.

[Niroshi]

You are gasping at straws, and you know it. The guy who had no relevant flaws other than being bad at melee combat is now 1-shotting Azerite tanks with his sword. For someone who presumably barely knows how to wield a sword, it's pretty impressive

You're just trying to further justify your hatred of the character man. He doesn't use the sword with any amount of skill, he swings it around like it's a club and just hacks at people. Him killing the tank has absolutely nothing to do with ability to use a sword and everything to do with him being a main character, the sword being magical and Anduin being a Paladin-in-everything-but-name.

He still can't fight for shit and he's still insanely naive. Just because he can hack at people with a magic sword doesn't mean anything.

[Wysmark]

Doesnt Alliance win nearly every battle since Anduin took over?

Darkshore, Stromgarde and Dazaralor?

[Manariel]

Doesnt Alliance win nearly every battle since Anduin took over?

Darkshore, Stromgarde and Dazaralor?

At least one of those he expressely forbid (Darkshore) because he wanted to have the second (and it was dumb because, had Tyrande listened, the Horde would have reinforced its presence on Darkshore uncontested, meaning that taking it may have become impossible later in the war - just look at how quickly the Horde built defenses there), which failed spectacularly to achieve its goal (severing the ties of the Horde and the Zandalari) because he didn't commit the necessary strenght to it, to make sure that no matter what happened the Zandalari wouldn't be relevant for the rest of the war, instead cementing their ties with the Horde.

The third one may be a victory he had a hand in making happen, but that's only because he supplied troops to Turalyon, Muradin and Danath, three veterans of the Second War with decades(thousands of years in the case of Turalyon) in term of battle-knowledge.

And let's not forget his pathetic assault on Undercity which would have ended in absolute failure at the gates, had not he received a deus ex machina in the form of Jaina, then in the corridors without another one (Alleria, the Void Elves and the Gnomes all barging suddenly through Void Portals) and then a final third one in the throne room, where Jaine had to save him and the other leaders, once more.

All in all, combined with his utterly dumb use of spies in Orgrimmar before the War of Thorns, it's safe to say that Anduin may be a good backer to have when you need resources, but a terrible liability when you need to actually wage a war.

[Varodoc]

"Arthas, Daelin, the sins of the past haunt us as well" like he could've said Cordana/Garithos/Blackmoore instead

Literally no one cares about Cordana and Blackmoore and with Garithos it's like they have retconned him out of existence.

Arthas and Daelin are people with tons of references on the Alliance side of BfA and thus were more relevant to cite as examples of people from races in the current Alliance who committed questionable acts.

[Cathfaern]

Anduin will be make mad by the void and he will be a raid boss or at least some kind of villian sooner or later. Everything points to that way.

[ErrandRunner]

Anduin is the LGBTQI+ poster boy, they won't get rid of him any time soon.

[Trumpcat]

Daelin Proudmoore evil?!
If that is your understanding of the story and his character I don't see much point in discussing Anduin's or anyone else.

[mysticx]

Whats more annoying is people crying about the faction war. Blizzard shouldn't end the faction war and remove factions from the game, they should make better story around them.

Blizz tried that multiple times, and it ended the same as now with a tepid "Bad Horde, now don't do that again!" without any further in-game repercussions, like how Ashenvale was filled with orcs from Cataclysm until they re-invaded in BfA, the only thing we have to indicate that they were ever gone at all is a footnote in some novel or other.

At some point Blizz should just face facts: Between gameplay constraints and their rather... rudimentary writing style, faction wars always leave everybody upset and nobody happy, best to just abandon the whole "Let's do the faction war again"-cliche, and try to think of some different stories.

[DemonHunter18]

Blizz tried that multiple times, and it ended the same as now with a tepid "Bad Horde, now don't do that again!" without any further in-game repercussions, like how Ashenvale was filled with orcs from Cataclysm until they re-invaded in BfA, the only thing we have to indicate that they were ever gone at all is a footnote in some novel or other.

At some point Blizz should just face facts: Between gameplay constraints and their rather... rudimentary writing style, faction wars always leave everybody upset and nobody happy, best to just abandon the whole "Let's do the faction war again"-cliche, and try to think of some different stories.

basically this but people will awarawwww it's not Warcraft anymore!!!

have two factions gameplay wise but don't do faction war based expansions anymore because it's BAD.

[Mehrunes]

the fuck did Anduin win, the only thing alliance won is Darkshore and that's something that he had nothing to do with, Lorderon was an utterly abysmal failure, Orgrimmar would have been another failure if Sylvanas didn't go full retard, Anduin doesn't have shit he can claim as a win, I can't even imagine how much territory he will give the Horde for two weeks of peace, he's a Horde character that someone accidentally flagged as Alliance

He won a moral victory.

[Varodoc]

Daelin Proudmoore evil?!
If that is your understanding of the story and his character I don't see much point in discussing Anduin's or anyone else.

Technically Anduin didn't even say Daelin was evil, he just said he was a ghost of the past haunting the Alliance. Doesn't mean evil.

[Kiyran Ravensong]

To my understanding it's not common knowledge that Anduin set Saurfang free. We as a Player know much more than most citizens of the alliance. Our ingame character knows much less than we ourselfs do. There are even some dialougues from alliance citizens in stormwind that wonder how Saurfang could escape and that there is only a rumor of Anduin helping him.

Anduin could have helped the nightelves yeah, but at that time there were other more important things to do than to stretch the army thin to recover a big piece of charcoal in the ocean. Tyrande is a bit unpatient for a leader that is a few thousand years old. I don't say Teldrassil isn't important and stuff, but a war on more fronts is just stupid and costs more lifes than necessary

I mean it didn't work for Hitler. You can't fight the UK, French Resistance, and US forces on one front, the Nordic countries from the North, and Russia on the East. Tbh Russia is the reason WWII wasn't a victory for Germany but alas. Anduin has been trying and it's a good thing he's having a hard time trying to appease his vassal states while winning a war. He's 20 some years old thrusted into that position. Even had Varian lived, he'd still have many hard decisions to make. As for Tyrande, she's been a major well something negative to me since WCIII. And ever since MoP, her impatience makes no sense. She's over 10k years and the whole notion of older Night Elves is to have said patience. Also let's be real how many actual soldiers on both sides is really left at this point. Unless Khadgar has been pouring "fuck like rabbits" into all our ales, we have to be near exhaustion at this point. I believe that was the lore reason for Allied Races or maybe I am mis-remembering...

This is how I try to reason out the shit story. It's another reason why I hate faction war stories in an mmo b/c someone has to lose and someone has to win but they can't throw half the playerbase under the bus so they come up with stupid shite that simply is not worth the read almost. As you've said, it's not like all of it is Anduin's fault. There are major issues with the other alliance leaders but attacking Golden Boy is easier I guess.

[Seranthor]

• Saved Garrosh from death
• Approved Tyrande's call to attack Silithus without any safety nets
• Freed a valueable high priority prisoner -> betrayal of public trust
• Didn't do much effort to save the people in Teldrassil -> why not call in more Hydromancers, Frost Mages, or even the Draenei?
• Vowed to recover Teldrassil before the Fourth War is over -> Teldrassil is recovered without the help of Anduin or the "main" Alliance Army at all, just the soldiers from Gilneas and Night Elves
• Compared Daelin to Arthas (I know Daelin is evil, but it's insensitive and insulting to the Kul Tirans who just recently rejoined the Alliance)
• Refused to hold even the most immediate aggressors accountable (Belmont, Eyegouge, Liadrin, whoever assaulted Brennadam)
• Anything else against the Westfall poor and hungry and homeless?

Why does Velen, Arechron, Mordent, Vereesa, Mordent, Tyrande, Malfurion, Danath, Three Dwarf Rules, and Turalyon even have to bow down to a 20> year old person who has little to no leading experience? Even in the Battle of Lordaeron, Anduin didn't have any backup plan nor any safety nets and they were just lucky that Jaina arrived. At this point everyone should see that Anduin is a Horde lapdog and he might as well offer Mount Hyjal, Hinterlands, Winterspring, Feralas, and Felwood to the Horde to appease them further. The Alliance needs to have some actual development and more internal conflict to actually mature and the leaders should come to their senses to put someone of wisdom and experience instead to lead them: Tyrande, Velen, or Turalyon.

I don't care what happens to Genn if this happens, but seeing that he gave a middle finger to Anduin to help the Night Elves - it would appear that he would follow Tyrande over Anduin

Write the story, send it to Blizzard, be the hero you demand.

[Darththeo]

• Saved Garrosh from death
• Approved Tyrande's call to attack Silithus without any safety nets
• Freed a valueable high priority prisoner -> betrayal of public trust
• Didn't do much effort to save the people in Teldrassil -> why not call in more Hydromancers, Frost Mages, or even the Draenei?
• Vowed to recover Teldrassil before the Fourth War is over -> Teldrassil is recovered without the help of Anduin or the "main" Alliance Army at all, just the soldiers from Gilneas and Night Elves
• Compared Daelin to Arthas (I know Daelin is evil, but it's insensitive and insulting to the Kul Tirans who just recently rejoined the Alliance)
• Refused to hold even the most immediate aggressors accountable (Belmont, Eyegouge, Liadrin, whoever assaulted Brennadam)
• Anything else against the Westfall poor and hungry and homeless?

Garrosh wasn't going to be killed by the August Celestials. They were going to release him, so Anduin didn't save Garrosh from death.
Not that big of a deal, Tyrande was going to do it anyway.
It was clear at the time he released Saurfang, the Horde didn't care for him as he was not saved when the Horde broke into the stockades.
In the middle of the war, calling in aid away from the front is a good way to get more people killed.
Because Tyrande wasn't going to wait until the war was over.
Nope, he listed Daelin and Arthas as bad Alliance characters, not they were equal.
Aggressors or enemy combatants?
We have no idea what is happening in Westfall since Cata.

[Eazy]

It's because: