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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Laqweeta View Post
    I mean that's an option, and a lot of people have which is why Classic has the queue and retail does not lmao.
    Ah look, another one who does not know what he is talking about.

    The queues on retail and classic are for different reasons. Retail queues are due to a login server overload, which only happens at expansion launches, which btw also happened at the classic launch.
    The queues classic players are experiencing now has nothing to do with the login server, it is because there is a server pop cap, which does not exist on retail anymore due to sharding. Meaning, you can't login because there is an arbitrary cap and not that classic is that amazing that it still overloads login servers lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Domm530 View Post
    Skill ������������

    Can people litterly not come to terms with the fact that WoW has never been a skill based game?
    People not being able to hit button 1,2,3 consecutively has nothing to do with skill, neither is the amount of pulls u can make and what path to follow,

    Wow is all about knowlegde, stop this skill nonsense, lets not kid ourselves ������
    With that logic nothing would be skill based, everything is at least partly about knowledge except your basic instinct.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Laqweeta View Post
    And I'm not either, Classic has more people playing.
    Source?
    10char

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    Quote Originally Posted by Laqweeta View Post
    And 90% of those realms are dead. The two top realms have between 12k to 14k players, the next have 7k.
    Making up numbers since WW2.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Noobies View Post
    Asmongold had more viewers watching a long boi roll.
    So? if a streamer has more views than an event steam - crap event? wtf. Event is for those who watch it and 20k is not low on twitch.. why the fuck ppl want to shit on it?
    "20K mEAnS iT'S cRaP"

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    Can you explain me how current dungeons are any worse than anything TBC-Current? I really want to see your point.
    The minute someone decides to push theyre game(Or part of the game) into e-sports, it will have consequenses. Either the game will become much less complicated or much more complicated with alot of new stuff all over the place.

    Look at CS - Not complicated at all. Everyone can jump in, everyone gets the game. Attracts ALOT of people because of just that, the simplicity.
    Look at SC2 - Alot more complicated, alot more stuff to know about and learn. On the surface the game is allright, but if you want to push anything it requires more than just quick reactions. Dont attract alot of people in e-sports. BTW, I watch it alot.

    Now, lets go back to wow. Dungeons used to be something fairly straightforward. In BC it was quite good with normal & HC dungeons. HC dungeons did for most of BC require more of your grp than normal. You had interrupts, you did some CC. What did we have at our dipsosal? The races & classes with every talent point there. You could bring every class for these dungeons and clear them.

    When you cleared a HC dungeon, you had cleared it. It wasnt a new key, a new affex, new season, new "that class is best for this season", it wasnt gear locked behind higher dungeon level. With this m+ and especially m+ invitational, the game gets alot more balanced around high lvl play, rather than how most people play the game. Most people dont run m+30 keys. So the game at the top effects the game overall much more than it should. It also slowly but steady brings the game into a more bland state were every class does more or less the same, in the ever chasing goal of "perfect balance" in a MMORPG.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    The minute someone decides to push theyre game(Or part of the game) into e-sports, it will have consequenses. Either the game will become much less complicated or much more complicated with alot of new stuff all over the place.

    Look at CS - Not complicated at all. Everyone can jump in, everyone gets the game. Attracts ALOT of people because of just that, the simplicity.
    Look at SC2 - Alot more complicated, alot more stuff to know about and learn. On the surface the game is allright, but if you want to push anything it requires more than just quick reactions. Dont attract alot of people in e-sports. BTW, I watch it alot.

    Now, lets go back to wow. Dungeons used to be something fairly straightforward. In BC it was quite good with normal & HC dungeons. HC dungeons did for most of BC require more of your grp than normal. You had interrupts, you did some CC. What did we have at our dipsosal? The races & classes with every talent point there. You could bring every class for these dungeons and clear them.

    When you cleared a HC dungeon, you had cleared it. It wasnt a new key, a new affex, new season, new "that class is best for this season", it wasnt gear locked behind higher dungeon level. With this m+ and especially m+ invitational, the game gets alot more balanced around high lvl play, rather than how most people play the game. Most people dont run m+30 keys. So the game at the top effects the game overall much more than it should. It also slowly but steady brings the game into a more bland state were every class does more or less the same, in the ever chasing goal of "perfect balance" in a MMORPG.
    You can still bring every class and spec. into m+ and clear 15 for the best reward. There is absolutely no reason for not being able to do that. Complexity increased with mobs doing more and there being affixes. But not by much I would say - not for current player base which is familiar with bosses having 10-15 mechanics. A mob pack with 5 mechanics to be aware of, 1-2 being critical and rest is only critical on high keys forty affix. There is nothing - high level play about it.
    Also, it should be kept in mind, that 14 keys provide 465 gear while HC raid provides 460, so clearing a dungeon on 14 should be more skill intense than a raid. If you cant clear HC, I would say it's pretty ok for better gear to be locked behind higher keys (higher playing level at that) as you are rewarded for your skill. Same as back in a day, you could not get gear if you could not raid, which required, at that time, higher skill level than a average player, at that time.
    On the topic of classes being balanced around high level of play - blizz seems to be stepping back a bit and introducing a AoE cap. I would say OP classes suffer, rather then weak ones getting a fix and that is unfortunate. Also another topic on how humans work - most people look at what they could be rather at what they are. If there is balance but they perform shit, they will blame stupid dungeon system or pugs or their mother for being crap. But when there is disbalance,they just scream "nerf x. boost y" all the time. They are looking at the class as if they were performing at the peak, so that's why they want "justice" for their class. It does not matter that the class X is completely capable of clearing a +15, they will look at MDI and then yell that they can't get it done because "they don't have shroud, AoE burst or combat ress on their class". Homogenization is the doing of the players and Blizzard working together. I can say I was the same, I love shadow priests, I love them, but being a mana regen bitch in raids does not sound appealing for me when TBC comes out :/
    Last edited by erifwodahs; 2020-04-14 at 09:09 AM.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    You can still bring every class and spec. into m+ and clear 15 for the best reward. There is absolutely no reason for not being able to do that. Complexity increased with mobs doing more and there being affixes. But not by much I would say - not for current player base where which is familiar with bosses have 10-15 mechanics. A mob pack with 5 mechanics to be aware of, 1-2 being critical and rest is only critical on high keys forty affix. There is nothing - high level play about it.
    Also, it should be kept in mind, that 14 keys provide 465 gear while HC raid provides 460, so clearing a dungeon on 14 should be more skill intense than a raid. If you cant clear HC, I would say it's pretty ok for better gear to be locked behind higher keys (higher playing level at that) as you are rewarded for your skill. Same as back in a day, you could not get gear if you could not raid, which required, at that time, higher skill level than a average player, at that time.
    On the topic of classes being balanced around high level of play - blizz seems to be stepping back a bit and introducing a AoE cap. I would say OP classes suffer, rather then weak ones getting a fix and that is unfortunate. Also another topic on how humans work - most people look at what they could be rather at what they are. If there is balance but they perform shit, they will blame stupid dungeon system or pugs or their mother for being crap. But when there is disbalance,they just scream "nerf x. boost y" all the time. They are looking at the class as if they were performing at the peak, so that's why they want "justice" for their class. It does not matter that the class X is completely capable of clearing a +15, they will look at MDI and then yell that they can't get it done because "they don't have shroud, AoE burst or combat ress on their class". Homogenization is the doing of the players and Blizzard working together. I can say I was the same, I love shadow priests, I love them, but being a mana regen bitch in raids does not sound appealing for me when TBC comes out :/
    The whole issue with m+ right now comes down to the timer. The timer decides alot, especially on what class to bring in and the mentality of a grp doing m+. Ofc people will complain that certain classes got spells like shroud when the whole idea of m+ is beating the timer. Stealth to skip mobs and get to endboss quicker? Who wouldnt want that.

    Imagine if raids suddenly got timers on them. Its cool watching the mythic world first race cause we all know the fights(especially at the end) is very very hard. Its about coordination, skill, teamwork, perfect execution. Slap a timer on this and it would create a whole new dimension of shitshow.

    Remove timer from m+. Have keys/affixes scale the difficulty. Example:

    Group A wants to mass pull, aoe, stealth between trash packs. Do whatever they can to clear the dungeon as fast as possible.

    Group B wants to coordinate, CC, take theyre time between each boss fight. Maybe god forbid gets to know the other players.

    Both groups clear the dungeon m+ key13. Same dungeon, same difficulty, different approach.

    Right now with the timer everything is funneled into one approach. Certain classes is a MUST, you gotta speed through it, check google on what mobs to skip and witch to kill. A few wipes? might as well just leave.

    With all the dungeons being on the same page(even a scaling one), everyone starts out fresh and a couple of wipes dont effect the end result whatsoever. I cant count how many times m+ grps have fallen flat because someone nerdrages after a wipe and leaves cause we cant reach timer. So. Many. Times.
    Last edited by crusadernero; 2020-04-14 at 09:19 AM.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Domm530 View Post
    Skill ������������

    Can people litterly not come to terms with the fact that WoW has never been a skill based game?
    People not being able to hit button 1,2,3 consecutively has nothing to do with skill, neither is the amount of pulls u can make and what path to follow,

    Wow is all about knowlegde, stop this skill nonsense, lets not kid ourselves ������

    What is a skill if not knowledge?
    Googled it for you.

    "Knowledge is a familiarity, awareness, or understanding of someone or something, such as facts, information, descriptions, or skills, which is acquired through experience or education by perceiving, discovering, or learning."

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    The whole issue with m+ right now comes down to the timer. The timer decides alot, especially on what class to bring in and the mentality of a grp doing m+. Ofc people will complain that certain classes got spells like shroud when the whole idea of m+ is beating the timer. Stealth to skip mobs and get to endboss quicker? Who wouldnt want that.

    Imagine if raids suddenly got timers on them. Its cool watching the mythic world first race cause we all know the fights(especially at the end) is very very hard. Its about coordination, skill, teamwork, perfect execution. Slap a timer on this and it would create a whole new dimension of shitshow.

    Remove timer from m+. Have keys/affixes scale the difficulty. Example:

    Group A wants to mass pull, aoe, stealth between trash packs. Do whatever they can to clear the dungeon as fast as possible.

    Group B wants to coordinate, CC, take theyre time between each boss fight. Maybe god forbid gets to know the other players.

    Both groups clear the dungeon m+ key13. Same dungeon, same difficulty, different approach.

    Right now with the timer everything is funneled into one approach. Certain classes is a MUST, you gotta speed through it, check google on what mobs to skip and witch to kill. A few wipes? might as well just leave.

    With all the dungeons being on the same page(even a scaling one), everyone starts out fresh and a couple of wipes dont effect the end result whatsoever. I cant count how many times m+ grps have fallen flat because someone nerdrages after a wipe and leaves cause we cant reach timer. So. Many. Times.
    There is a thread about that. Not timed mode sounds nice, does not take away anything from a game but it would have to be completely different system. I don't think it would be very popular tho, as again people mostly think that something else is the problem, so current people who are crap at m+ would still be doing timed runs because "it's others fault" and non timed stuff would be only for very chill players. That being said I would not give 1:1 rewards for that as to upgrade rewards for timed m+ you are required to make it in time. I.E. to get to current 465 bracket you need to be able to time 13s. On non timed runs you would be able to get into that bracket by just completing the keys. so to get 475 rewards on weekly and 465 on end of the run it should be timed 15s and non timed would be like 17-18, as if you are able to complete 17 tyranical at all you should be able to complete 15 in time too and imo and that's just a matter of tempo you want to play rather than lack of throughput. (it's a bit different on forty weeks, you can lack throughput but still be able to grind through the dungeon but that would require more time so if someone is willing to commit to that - sure)

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    20k people were watching. Youtube gave it a hit tho, some of my friends didn't even know that was happening on YT. It's quite awesome how people run these. I am in 19s bracket now, no way near close to these guys skill. Just don't watch it if you don't like it.
    I couldn't agree more with you. If you don't like something don't watch it. I don't normally watch much e-sport, but on a slow lockdown weekend I skipped though the YouTube recording afterwards and quite enjoyed it - quarter of a million others also watched it on YouTube when I saw, so quite a few obviously had some kind of interest.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by d00mh4cker View Post
    What is a skill if not knowledge?
    Googled it for you.

    "Knowledge is a familiarity, awareness, or understanding of someone or something, such as facts, information, descriptions, or skills, which is acquired through experience or education by perceiving, discovering, or learning."
    Then opening up a fucking bottle is also skill, hell even going to the toilet is skill, hencr what isnt skill then?

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Noobies View Post
    Asmongold had more viewers watching a long boi roll.
    A lot of Asmongold's viewers don't care about WoW. They care about Asmongold.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Domm530 View Post
    Then opening up a fucking bottle is also skill, hell even going to the toilet is skill, hencr what isnt skill then?
    Well you can call everything a skill. But acquiring the skill to finish a +20 key is way more challenging than acquiring the skill to open a bottle.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    A lot of Asmongold's viewers don't care about WoW. They care about Asmongold.

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    Well you can call everything a skill. But acquiring the skill to finish a +20 key is way more challenging than acquiring the skill to open a bottle.
    You sure? Depends how big the bottle is and how tight it is, i could even say opening a bottle is harder then anything currently in the game lol

    But i cannot decide whats hard for you, i personnaly laugh at everything wow throws at me cuz its honestly garbage and easy as hell, i played it cause of the fun i had with other people, but hell. Legion killed the community even further, theirs barely anything standing these days

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Domm530 View Post
    You sure? Depends how big the bottle is and how tight it is, i could even say opening a bottle is harder then anything currently in the game lol

    But i cannot decide whats hard for you, i personnaly laugh at everything wow throws at me cuz its honestly garbage and easy as hell, i played it cause of the fun i had with other people, but hell. Legion killed the community even further, theirs barely anything standing these days
    Have you completed a +20 key?

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Have you completed a +20 key?
    Lol i was doing + 23’s in legion with 2 fingers up my ass man.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Domm530 View Post
    Then opening up a fucking bottle is also skill, hell even going to the toilet is skill, hencr what isnt skill then?
    Yes, not a very impressive skill but yes.

  15. #75
    I don't really get the problem some people are having here. If you don't like MDI just don't watch it, it really is that simple. I'm not doing high keys myself but I like to tune in from time to time to watch the crazy plays by those m+ teams.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Domm530 View Post
    Lol i was doing + 23’s in legion with 2 fingers up my ass man.
    I'm guessing you won MDI aswell.

    You wanna share your armory or do you just want everyone to trust you?

    Also, i would like you to provide me with a "skill based" game.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Domm530 View Post
    Lol i was doing + 23’s in legion with 2 fingers up my ass man.
    Legion M+ was a lot easier than BFA M+. Have you tried a high key in BFA?

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Legion M+ was a lot easier than BFA M+. Have you tried a high key in BFA?
    Nah i have stopped playing competitively, dont see it as fun anymore, so im not gonna invest my time in doing so letting the game die is the best thing we can do, perhaps blizzard will listen eventually

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Domm530 View Post
    Nah i have stopped playing competitively, dont see it as fun anymore, so im not gonna invest my time in doing so letting the game die is the best thing we can do, perhaps blizzard will listen eventually
    But I still like the game.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    But I still like the game.
    Then i am super happy for you, and i hope you will have many happy years in WoW to comr, which i had for a verry long time.

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