Shadowlands is the "players were right" expansion.

[owbu]

I don't think people expected the "player housing" to cost them EVERYTHING open world content wise.

I don't think Blizzard expected that either

Garrisons seem to have been one of those black hole kind of features that just blew through it's allocated development time and then started eating everything around it.

[Kumorii]

Bet as soon as it's released people will claim they don't listen as usual.

[DemonDays]

???????
Anima Powers are literally just buffs for Torghast.

Unless you mean an equivalent to Artifact power, which there is none.
As stated numerous times already.

Anima Power is AP. It's just that there is a weekly cap. There will be numerous ways to "spend it". One of those ways is on Soulbinds talent trees.

I think you're the one who isn't paying attention champ.

- - - Updated - - -

Bet as soon as it's released people will claim they don't listen as usual.

Yeah well. They need to listen to feedback through Beta first. Then we'll know they've finally changed.

[Darththeo]

No, Shadowlands isn't the "Players were right."

Just because it aligns with some players ideals doesn't mean it aligns with all or even the majority.

[DemonDays]

Should this expansion turn out to work and the design decisions are validated, Blizzard needs to do one thing for 10.0.

Nothing. Constant iteration has heavily damage this game as they strive to reinvent it with every expansion. If Shadowlands is the working formula, STOP ITERATING. Just create new content, new quests, new zones, new stories. If 10.0 is the same game as 9.0, what of it if 9.0 was a wild success?

If that requires a new roguelike dungeon for Torghast, just do another one. If crafting our own legendaries is a brilliant system, just do that again.

No need to continually reinvent the wheel which each expansion because there's 50/50 chance doing so will make the next expansion suck.

Couldn't agree more.

Your right on one thing - there is absolutely no reason why Ion and his crew have just "suddenly" started listening to the playerbase.

It's been 4 long years of people screaming that the RNG has gone too far, class design sucks, agency is gone and the RPG has been sucked out of the game. Why listen now?

I think it's because sub numbers are nosediving hard. Money talks.

If this works and players were right - change nothing. Just give us new content in the same model.

[Casperite]

Should this expansion turn out to work and the design decisions are validated, Blizzard needs to do one thing for 10.0.

Nothing. Constant iteration has heavily damage this game as they strive to reinvent it with every expansion. If Shadowlands is the working formula, STOP ITERATING. Just create new content, new quests, new zones, new stories. If 10.0 is the same game as 9.0, what of it if 9.0 was a wild success?

If that requires a new roguelike dungeon for Torghast, just do another one. If crafting our own legendaries is a brilliant system, just do that again.

No need to continually reinvent the wheel which each expansion because there's 50/50 chance doing so will make the next expansion suck.

Then people will complain it is SL 2.0! Filler expansion! Reeeee!

[DemonDays]

Im sorry for what im about to say...but thats "loser talk". im sorry

Because in my idea, one person needs to constantly try and evolve...thrive to be better everyday.
Blizzard and wow are not a person....true....but i applaud each attempt (and flame on forums, endless cycle)

Sometimes, in the process of evolution we need to "go back" to something we tried before and didnt realize (at the time) it was amazing

We will never move forward if Blizzards does what you are saying.

How was BfA an evolution on anything? It had all the same or similar systems as Legion - but worse in every single way.

[Raetary]

Anima Power is AP. It's just that there is a weekly cap. There will be numerous ways to "spend it". One of those ways is on Soulbinds talent trees.
I think you're the one who isn't paying attention champ.

Anima, is a weekly capped currency we spend on things such as soulbinds and probably other stuff as well.
Think of corrupted mementos for the titan archive.

Anima power, or AP, are temporary buffs and abilities you gain inside Torghast that enhance you in that specific run.

[Big Thanks]

How was BfA an evolution on anything? It had all the same or similar systems as Legion - but worse in every single way.

They tried...

NPC AI
Islands
Warfronts
Azerites
Essences
Corruption
Visions
Mechagon
Benthic gear

Good try Blizzard-bro...keep trying plz

[Great Destiny Man]

No, Shadowlands isn't the "Players were right."

Just because it aligns with some players ideals doesn't mean it aligns with all or even the majority.

Yea I really hate this idea that players are a hive mind and that you either appease all of it or none of it.

Personally I'm excited for the changes but that doesn't mean I have the "correct" mentality.

[lollerlaban]

I agree with that assesment, but the way gear is obtained should always in my opinion be the same, lately your getting handed billions of items which all are being thrown in the bin, so getting a certain item feels less rewarding ashwell. I think ever since legion obtaining gear went abit to far.
But its hard ashwell when mythic+ is their golden baby, and how would it be if no loot would drop? I would be okay of theyd add certain cosmetics and professions/tittle things not power progression things tho like essences or artifact power shit, make it all about your chooice, and because its cool to go higher and higher( and perhaps have a cosmetic display it )

I've always been of the idea that gear should not WF/TF automatically, but actually be an item off the end tier boss and only upgrade the item twice (Sorta like Mists did it with lesser coins). So your ilvl 100 chest piece could become 102 and finally 104.

Small upgrades, keeps the people clearing raid even if just a tiny bit and it doesn't trivializes the next tier in terms of ilvl.

[Obelisk Kai]

Im sorry for what im about to say...but thats "loser talk". im sorry

Because in my idea, one person needs to constantly try and evolve...thrive to be better everyday.
Blizzard and wow are not a person....true....but i applaud each attempt (and flame on forums, endless cycle)

Sometimes, in the process of evolution we need to "go back" to something we tried before and didnt realize (at the time) it was amazing

We will never move forward if Blizzards does what you are saying.

Evolve? Move forward? They're addicted to iterating the game, of prioritising systems over content. Think of how much effort was wasted in the past three expansions setting up garrisons, or the artifact weapon grind and netherlight crucible, or fixing the failure that is azerite.

It's all very well to say 'evolve' and 'move forward' and nobody should complain if they fix something that is broken, but all they keep doing is a cycle of iteration, systemisation and then correction.

If Shadowlands finally provides a working model we can all get behind, of loot being loot, of professions mattering, of a Torghast style dungeon, of craftable and customisable legendaries, why should all that be junked for yet another spin of the wheel that could deliver us another WOD or BFA?

I'm sorry but it's no use saying 'you applaud each attempt'. If that is what you do you have to be unique. We scream about it on the forums. We make sure they never forget their failures. BFA will be thrown in their faces as often as WOD still is.

What we need is a stable, consistent system with player buy in which they then deliver a steady stream of content to us rather than wasting their time attempting to fix the problems their own iteration has caused. There is nothing at all undesirable about having such consistency, as while you may applaud a failed experiment, a failed experiment is something we have to spend two years of our lives dealing with and their iteration doesn't always end up improving the game, as the tick-tock cycle of bad/good expansions since Cata has proven.

Other successful MMOs have hit on stable gameplay formulas and they don't tinker with their core systems anywhere near as much as WoW has. If Shadowlands hits upon a formula that actually works, Blizzard should use it as the default going forward and stop trying to fix what isn't broken for the sake of it.

[Domm530]

I've always been of the idea that gear should not WF/TF automatically, but actually be an item off the end tier boss and only upgrade the item twice (Sorta like Mists did it with lesser coins). So your ilvl 100 chest piece could become 102 and finally 104.

Small upgrades, keeps the people clearing raid even if just a tiny bit and it doesn't trivializes the next tier in terms of ilvl.

I have always said tthe mop version was by far the best, and realy wasnt that bad. But the naysayers brought us the new tf en wf, lets hooe that never returns lol

[ErrandRunner]

Weren't the "players" wrong after Cataclysm was released and heroics were hard? I can see the same cherry-picking being done once SL is out.

[blankfaced]

Nonononono....it's the "we'll see if the players are right" expansion.....big difference.

[apples]

the naive person unironically said about every expansion

[guisadop]

If they didn't make new stuff then you wouldn't have expansions like TBC, WOTLK and MOP. If you don't iterate then content get's stale

The game would be 10x better nowadays if they just kept making new content instead of reformulating the classes and completely overhauling the gameplay like they've done in the last few expansions.

[Ardenaso]

They tried...

Warfronts

Good try Blizzard-bro...keep trying plz

Warfronts was a nice concept. They should've fleshed it out even more or made it better

[Nobleshield]

Now if they just reversed their stance on ARPG gameplay borrowed from Diablo 3 (looking at you M+)

[Big Thanks]

Evolve? Move forward? They're addicted to iterating the game, of prioritising systems over content. Think of how much effort was wasted in the past three expansions setting up garrisons, or the artifact weapon grind and netherlight crucible, or fixing the failure that is azerite.

It's all very well to say 'evolve' and 'move forward' and nobody should complain if they fix something that is broken, but all they keep doing is a cycle of iteration, systemisation and then correction.

If Shadowlands finally provides a working model we can all get behind, of loot being loot, of professions mattering, of a Torghast style dungeon, of craftable and customisable legendaries, why should all that be junked for yet another spin of the wheel that could deliver us another WOD or BFA?

I'm sorry but it's no use saying 'you applaud each attempt'. If that is what you do you have to be unique. We scream about it on the forums. We make sure they never forget their failures. BFA will be thrown in their faces as often as WOD still is.

What we need is a stable, consistent system with player buy in which they then deliver a steady stream of content to us rather than wasting their time attempting to fix the problems their own iteration has caused. There is nothing at all undesirable about having such consistency, as while you may applaud a failed experiment, a failed experiment is something we have to spend two years of our lives dealing with and their iteration doesn't always end up improving the game, as the tick-tock cycle of bad/good expansions since Cata has proven.

Other successful MMOs have hit on stable gameplay formulas and they don't tinker with their core systems anywhere near as much as WoW has. If Shadowlands hits upon a formula that actually works, Blizzard should use it as the default going forward and stop trying to fix what isn't broken for the sake of it.

I just think...being in the "comfort zone" is the enemy to progress. Thats all.
In all things.

Does Blizzard has the responsability to try and progress? No...but i want them to.