Shadowlands is the "players were right" expansion.

[Thirtyrock]

I think so as well, lack of titanforging etc will mean very little reasons to clear it multiple times

Back before Titanforging we cleared dungeons/raids multiple times. First there's gearing up through normal so you can clear heroic (obviously some can skip normal, but others need the gear to get into Heroic) and then gearing up through heroic so you can clear mythic then gearing up through mythic to prepare for the next tier.

[Lolites]

Now if they just reversed their stance on ARPG gameplay borrowed from Diablo 3 (looking at you M+)

yeah, they should totaly remove one of the most popular and succesful additions from last decade...

[Spacewalrus2010]

Wow forums are not an indication of what the entire playerbase wants. How is it that this thought process is still tough to grasp?

There is a 4 hour queue... for a 12 year old game that has been out for months...

You have a 20min+ queue for a heroic dungeon...

1) Vast majority of people have a lot of free time right now if you didn't notice.
th
2) Layering is "off" for most, if not all, servers.

I'm not suggesting classic was a failure or anything, but it's on a decline. Blizzard would still have layering on some servers if that weren't the case.

[Musta]

balance team is shit and wants certain specs to outperform others to the point of dont minding (at all) if they are unplayable in pvp
Pretty sure no one at Blizzard is a WoW gamer who actually "feels" how the classes play out.

Or they are just facebook gamers. I dont know...

edit: still salty about outlaw rogue

I really dont understand too, and im salty bout Havoc.

[Thirtyrock]

Yeah, I just hope they still know what they're doing. SL sounds like every wish expressed by mythic raiders and elitist players on the internet come to reality. We'll see how it pans out, ultimately the combat system and raids is only one of my interests in the game, but I'd still prefer it to be approachable and casual.

I was actually talking with my wife about why I didn't play WoW anymore last week (the day before I read up on Shadowlands and reupped my subscription). I talked about how much I enjoyed being able to differentiate myself as a player by smart gearing, proper gemming and reforging, and using even the most niche abilities as needed to eek out that extra little something in a raid.

I played from Wrath to mid-Mists, then came back in Legion and the beginning of BFA. I had been a prot pally for the first part of my time in WoW, but I HATED how they gutted the class in WoD. I came back and it was just so...lackluster. Reading up on the paladin changes makes me really excited that my class will feel like it used to again!

I've never been a SUPER high end player, mostly due to time constraints. But I like high skill caps. Make it easy for most players to play well but hard for the best to be amazing! easy to learn, difficult to master concept.

I was also one of the players singing praises at Cata's launch due to the difficulty of Heroics, though. I LOVED them. They were an absolute blast. Mythics bring that difficulty back, thankfully, but I missed it after the Cata nerfs until Mythics.

[Gatto]

I see no reason to celebrate.

- Torghast seems mandatory for main and alt ( like horrific visions and cloak ).

- Covenants will force you to choose traits ( back to vanilla when retraining your traits was impssible, switching from a content to another ).

-PvP vendors are back, but no rumors about the presence of ANY possible stat combination from them.

Currently you can choose between 2 pieces of feet. crit/haste or Versa/mastery. If this is going to go live, PvP vendors will be meaningless, since players will be forced to farm the M+ dungeon which drop the specific piece which has the 2 stats they need.

So, at least currently, it's not reassuring at all.
Could really be a BFA 2.0

[Big Thanks]

I really dont understand too, and im salty bout Havoc.

And not only i have to get Blizzards D in my ass...i also get forum posters D in my mouth when i tell them their classes are completely Overpowered.
Nobody in WoW knows how lucky they are for playing the FoTM specs.
Sometimes they even complain! looooooool

Step inside arena with an outlaw rogue and only then ill allow you to have an opinion.

/rage_off

[Musta]

And not only i have to get Blizzards D in my ass...i also get forum posters D in my mouth when i tell them their classes are completely Overpowered.
Nobody in WoW knows how lucky they are for playing the FoTM specs.
Sometimes they even complain! looooooool

Step inside arena with an outlaw rogue and only then ill allow you to have an opinion.

/rage_off

i tried to get feedback on the hands of the bastards, but nobody wants to help.

[Feral Druid ist Op]

I think so as well, lack of titanforging etc will mean very little reasons to clear it multiple times

some ppl will never understad that raider dont play for gear only bads do, its all about the challenge (parses/world/server ranks) gear is just a tool, this why good raider hate gear rng and forging you could not compet with some one whos lucky be it bis trinket in 455 (8.2) or corruption now or legos+forged arcanocrystal in legion

[Mirishka]

They've backflipped on almost all their egregious design choices.

Almost everything every level headed person has been saying is wrong with the game is getting fixed in Shadowlands. It's almost like Ion and his legion of fanboys were wrong the whole time.

Let loot be loot.
Vendors and currencies back for PvP.
No titanforging or shitty RNG system of any kind.
Un-pruning classes.
Craftable legendaries.
Making professions matter again.
Less loot will drop making loot more meaningful - no more vendoring thousands of epics every expansion.
Potential return of class themed sets.

World of Warcraft: Shadowlands. ("Please stop leaving our game, you were right.")


I mean there is still some shit things like we don't know much about Anima Power(AP) and the Covenant abilities can NEVER be balanced(Blizzard is dogshit at balancing).

At this point though it turns out the Blizz Defenders were wrong. It's too early to celebrate but from a pessimist at least they're saying all the right things. Ion is a pathological liar though so only time will tell.

Yeah, no, it really isn't. There's no unified player voice about any of this shit, so suggesting that we were 'right' based on Shadowlands design decisions is stupid.

[Kemsa]

They've backflipped on almost all their egregious design choices.

Almost everything every level headed person has been saying is wrong with the game is getting fixed in Shadowlands. It's almost like Ion and his legion of fanboys were wrong the whole time.
I mean there is still some shit things like we don't know much about Anima Power(AP) and the Covenant abilities can NEVER be balanced(Blizzard is dogshit at balancing).

At this point though it turns out the Blizz Defenders were wrong. It's too early to celebrate but from a pessimist at least they're saying all the right things. Ion is a pathological liar though so only time will tell.

Let loot be loot. Shitty systems not worth the time (corruptions) because they needed more time to develop (some corruptions should never drop for some classes)

Vendors and currencies back for PvP. (Vendors in general work out very well like the Azerite One, but they were remove because people didnt wanted to be segregated because of resilience)

No titanforging or shitty RNG system of any kind. (Related to shitty systems that needed more time to developed, but the removing of TF and WF its the stupidiest ever, they were implemented for hardcore endgame people that only did one type of content, if you were a tru mythic plus kind of person, you will see how that entire group its fucked over now, because there is no incentive to do more than 1 M+. They said its going to work out because of the 6 item week chest if you spam the dungeon you have more chances..... we need to see if it works.)

Un-pruning classes. (You know why they did it in the first place right? people like you bitched because they have more than 20 keybinds and skill that didnt work on the rotations..... they just rolledbacked to MoP with Tbc-Lich numbers.... we will see how many people bitched again because they cant do a proper rotation of Mage.)

Craftable legendaries. (Legos were never craftable, they were Epic Questlines with some mats. Until Legion. The new craftable legos are something new so stop giving "players" all the credit.)

Making professions matter again. (Agree, but now they work, because the numbers matter more, a Holy Grenade will deal the same ammount of damage than 2 of your abilities combine. So guess what.... it will work. With lower numbers other sections of the game work better.)

Less loot will drop making loot more meaningful - no more vendoring thousands of epics every expansion. (I can argue this too, but i like having less loot instead of a wide variaty of builds for every situation..... BIS gear its back on the menu and i am waiting to see the ammount of posts of people bitching that the other 4 rogues are using the same shit and only the "fingers" will be the ones that decided if they get on the Raid Core.)

Potential return of class themed sets. (HA!.gif)

[Laughingjack]

Wow forums are not an indication of what the entire playerbase wants. How is it that this thought process is still tough to grasp?



1) Vast majority of people have a lot of free time right now if you didn't notice.
th
2) Layering is "off" for most, if not all, servers.

I'm not suggesting classic was a failure or anything, but it's on a decline. Blizzard would still have layering on some servers if that weren't the case.

You are correct most people simply left when free loot and challenge less content was pushed as the new thing standard. That said im not really have the whole is classic more popular then bfa argument

[Barzotti]

You are correct most people simply left when free loot and challenge less content was pushed as the new thing standard

You mean, in WotLK with the piss easy heroic dungeons then? And did you forget the massive whining when Blizz made the dungeons more difficult in Cataclysm?

[araine]

some ppl will never understad that raider dont play for gear only bads do, its all about the challenge (parses/world/server ranks) gear is just a tool, this why good raider hate gear rng and forging you could not compet with some one whos lucky be it bis trinket in 455 (8.2) or corruption now or legos+forged arcanocrystal in legion

So no replay value is what you want personally raiding without gear upgrades defeats the purpose of raiding totally, might as well bring back the garrison table if thats where they are looking to go

[kamuimac]

You are correct most people simply left when free loot and challenge less content was pushed as the new thing standard. That said im not really have the whole is classic more popular then bfa argument

most people left game in 3 months of WoD when they brought briefly "loot is loot" philosophy into game for first time.

unless you have internal data your claim is a complete lie not backed up by anything.

unlike real data that we seen for years

[Beefhammer]

You mean, in WotLK with the piss easy heroic dungeons then? And did you forget the massive whining when Blizz made the dungeons more difficult in Cataclysm?

You mean the piss easy heroic dungeons after people were in Ulduar gear and had 6 plus months of experience in them. There were countless threads about the difficulty of many heroics especially the final bosses and how some classes couldn't tank or heal them as well as other classes. Sure we all remember the the 3.3 zerg days but you all forget the 3.0 hard as hell days.

[Protean]

???????
Anima Powers are literally just buffs for Torghast.

Unless you mean an equivalent to Artifact power, which there is none.
As stated numerous times already.

And Torghast is mandatory, so does it really matter if AP is on a weapon or neck or on a dungeon?

[Big Thanks]

You mean the piss easy heroic dungeons after people were in Ulduar gear and had 6 plus months of experience in them. There were countless threads about the difficulty of many heroics especially the final bosses and how some classes couldn't tank or heal them as well as other classes. Sure we all remember the the 3.3 zerg days but you all forget the 3.0 hard as hell days.

finally! someone with my opinion

I remember the dungeons being hard when we started the expansion! I remember it clearly.
Well...not very hard...but still a decent challenge

I remember clearly a (badly geared?) friend tank being one shotted by a spider "backstab ability"
Cant remember much else.

Ofcourse mid expansion they were an absolute joke.

[TheFirstOnes]

I wouldn't say this, as this is still the first Alpha build.

But...

It's a step in the right direction, I guess?

[Beefhammer]

finally! someone with my opinion

I remember the dungeons being hard when we started the expansion! I remember it clearly.
Well...not very hard...but still a decent challenge

I remember clearly a (badly geared?) friend tank being one shotted by a spider "backstab ability"
Cant remember much else.

Ofcourse mid expansion they were an absolute joke.

End bosses were group killers back at the start, Thoridan especially. The Occulus, insanity phase on the Herald fight, the gauntlest and dragon fight on that Fjord dungeon that escapes my mind. Early Heroics were killer. But once people had some heroic Naxx and Ulduar badge gear, pluse experience, things got a lot easier. Then hard again with the ICC heroics.