No 2h for enhancement? It's now or never

[Oturanboa]

Where EXACTLY have they indicated that it might make a return for any of those patches? Official Blizzard statements, not player speculation, thanks!

And just like before, the answer is not "now".

I'm talking about blue balling enhancement as a whole. They haven't been giving it a good look. Spec recieved gimmicky tools and poor play style. Even freaking youtubers are making fun of enhancement on their channels.

Answer to bringing back shocks was also no. Removal of maelstrom bar was also no. Now there is hope, blizzard accually begun to listen.

-------------------------

And i know i'm not talking for every one.
I know a lot of people will prefer duel wield.
I know duel wield will (and maybe should) most likely be better for parcing.
I DONT want 2h wf to 1 shot people. (Check your logs wf damage is piss now.)


This is about a choise even if it's a bad one. There are shit loads of enhancement shamans who want to be able to use 2h weapons AND duel wield. There is no reason why we cant have it other than "a little bit of work"

They ARE giving it to frost death knights AT LEAST.

I just want same care for enhancement as well, i'm sure i'm not alone.

maelstrom weapon proc is pppm (proc per minute). WF is ppm. Every trinket is ppm. Only thing we loose would be extra weapon stat (they seem to worked that out for frost dk) and flametongue weapon.

I'm sure they can find a quick work around for that. Fit both wf and flametongue on 2h weapons? Fine enough work around for me.

This will not hurt people who don't want it. I don't understand why you guys are against it.

[bloodmoth13]

I honestly think it has more to do with loot tables than anything else. Survival doesnt get dual wield either, but i think blizz just doesnt want hunters rolling on every weapon (not sure what the loot situation is though)

Frost DKs get a pass since they wont be using new weapons but rather just the weapons their off specs already use, enhance use caster weapons for their off specs and hunters use ranged.

with that in mind, i dont think it would be a major issue to give them the option, just half lava lash damage for 2h and windfury should balance out if its based on weapon procs, though that might actually be harder to balance

[Huggykaze]

1 single ability; Lava Lash is NOT an issue guys. They will just make it have a lower coefficiency for 2h weapons and be done it. That's it! If that tooltip too much of an RPG downfall for the enhancement players, they could change the tooltip when you equip 2h weapons. I think a billion dolar gaming company could handle a problem like that.

Blizzard has been carving the shaman class over the decade (said it themselves on shadowlands shaman commentery blue post). Every class can do whatever shaman can, in a better way.

Now this! This choise, this freedom, this CARE is being given to 4 classes. Why doesn't enhancement deserve it? How is it possible to balance frost but not enhancement?

Blizzard has been blue balling enhancement for years! Wait for 7.0 wait for 8.0 wait for 9.0...

Now this is alpha! Everything is subject to change! Everything is on table! This is the time they can't say it's too late. This is the time guys! Let it be heard on alpha and US forums. İt's really really now or never.

Because Frost has no Windfury as its main mechanic for goodness sake. With a slow two-hander Windfury will not affect your DPS enough, so everything else will have to be buffed resulting in abilities dealing whole fuckton of damage increasing the nuke potential too far. The alternative is to increase the proc chance of Windfury when using two-handers, but this will just increase the other problem 2H Enh has - Windfury procs utterly demolish shit. So it's either low DPS with a chance to utterly obliterate another player or a non-elite mob; or acceptable DPS and constantly obliterating players and non-elite mobs. This situation is a balancing hell and even if a sweet spot can be found, it will keep on shifting with gear, tier set bonuses, trinkets etc. This isn't exactly hard to see.

Edit: maybe with more modern systems the issue could be solved without making DW Enh feel bad, but proposals of such solutions would be welcome.

[mojojojo202]

The current Enh toolset for SL will not work viably with a 2h even if they could be equipped. Maelstrom Weapon rewards more AAs over harder hitting ones.
Lava Lash is based off the OH damage,
You can't have both Windfury and Flametongue Weapon applied to one weapon.
It doesn't work.

Does anyone particularly care if it is optimal?

It was pretty niche when it was in the game.

Adjust LL to work with either 2h or on MH damage or whatever. Change it so you can only use one weapon enchantment. If Maelstrom Weapon is better with DW thats just a trade off you have to make.

[Tehterokkar]

I honestly think it has more to do with loot tables than anything else. Survival doesnt get dual wield either, but i think blizz just doesnt want hunters rolling on every weapon (not sure what the loot situation is though)

Frost DKs get a pass since they wont be using new weapons but rather just the weapons their off specs already use, enhance use caster weapons for their off specs and hunters use ranged.

with that in mind, i dont think it would be a major issue to give them the option, just half lava lash damage for 2h and windfury should balance out if its based on weapon procs, though that might actually be harder to balance

Why does rolling matter when it's all going to be forced personal loot?

They can just have all 1 handers and 2 handers have dual-stat agi+str and it swaps depending on the class wielding.

[oland138]

I love the argument that it's not going to happen because it was a meme spec in vanilla - as if it was the only meme spec.












Melee Hunters.

[Oturanboa]

Out of curiosity, can someone explain to me why 2h enhancement has been such a difficulty for Blizz? It's something I don't understand.

If i counted right, as of now in Battle for Azeroth, enhancement spec has 12 abilities that scales with weapon damage. In shadowlands there will be some additions like shocks. Lets say it will be add up to 20 abilities.

They will make new formulas for these new abilities to work with duel wielding like they did in legion expansion. The reason why we can't have duel wield is they don't want to make 20 more formulas to make it work with 2h weapons. Which they did for frost DKs.

The bit with "lava lash is offhand attack meh meh" is... not an excuse really.

[Psykho]

Slightly unrelated, but I transmogged the Staff on the Mag'har Shaman I made after unlocking them into a hammer(even though I'll probably main Elemental since that's the only spec that allows me to do so, I refuse to heal, couldn't complete the Artifact scenario on a trial character and have been turned off of it ever since)

Edit: specifically the Hammer of the Naaru appearance it fits with the background I gave my Shaman
Edit2: I'd suggest doing the same to show support spread the word around to get shamans to do the same

[Selah]

If i counted right, as of now in Battle for Azeroth, enhancement spec has 12 abilities that scales with weapon damage. In shadowlands there will be some additions like shocks. Lets say it will be add up to 20 abilities.

They will make new formulas for these new abilities to work with duel wielding like they did in legion expansion. The reason why we can't have duel wield is they don't want to make 20 more formulas to make it work with 2h weapons. Which they did for frost DKs.

The bit with "lava lash is offhand attack meh meh" is... not an excuse really.

So really it's just them not wanting to do the work then? In an expansion where they boast about player agency, seems like a thing you wouldn't want to skip on.

[jellmoo]

I don't know what they don't just make weapon use and choice a cosmetic one. If they don't want to play with the mechanics, just let players transmog their two one hangers into a two handed weapon and then drop in appropriate animations. Let players fufill the character fantasy they want, but keep the base mechanic for the class uniform.

[Huggykaze]

I honestly think it has more to do with loot tables than anything else. Survival doesnt get dual wield either, but i think blizz just doesnt want hunters rolling on every weapon (not sure what the loot situation is though)

Frost DKs get a pass since they wont be using new weapons but rather just the weapons their off specs already use, enhance use caster weapons for their off specs and hunters use ranged.

with that in mind, i dont think it would be a major issue to give them the option, just half lava lash damage for 2h and windfury should balance out if its based on weapon procs, though that might actually be harder to balance

Well, 2H Enh would require an agility-based 2H mace and/or 2H axe to be added into every raid tier, for the sake of a half-a-spec. If your group doesn't have this person, it's probably trash unless SV/Feral happen to have the same stat prio as 2H enh. Until now they've been using staves and polearms too so...

[Aleksej89]

I miss 2h weapons on shaman, they looked cool when combined with Enha visual effects.

[Oturanboa]

Because Frost has no Windfury as its main mechanic for goodness sake. With a slow two-hander Windfury will not affect your DPS enough, so everything else will have to be buffed resulting in abilities dealing whole fuckton of damage increasing the nuke potential too far. The alternative is to increase the proc chance of Windfury when using two-handers, but this will just increase the other problem 2H Enh has - Windfury procs utterly demolish shit. So it's either low DPS with a chance to utterly obliterate another player or a non-elite mob; or acceptable DPS and constantly obliterating players and non-elite mobs. This situation is a balancing hell and even if a sweet spot can be found, it will keep on shifting with gear, tier set bonuses, trinkets etc. This isn't exactly hard to see.

Edit: maybe with more modern systems the issue could be solved without making DW Enh feel bad, but proposals of such solutions would be welcome.

Our main mechanic is not windfury. Usually on details window, windfury is right under auto attack damage as %5-7 of total damage done.
Average hits are 6k. Average CRITS are 12k even if 2h weapons double this damage. You are not 1 shoting anyone with 500k hp with 6k hits. This is with forceful winds talent btw.

Also procs are handled with ppm since the burning crusade. It can be arranged not to proc less than duel wield.

Well, 2H Enh would require an agility-based 2H mace and/or 2H axe to be added into every raid tier, for the sake of a half-a-spec. If your group doesn't have this person, it's probably trash unless SV/Feral happen to have the same stat prio as 2H enh. Until now they've been using staves and polearms too so...

Right now when i change my spec from enhancement to resto or elemental, all my agility gear becomes intellect gear. They can just do the same thing for 2h str weapons. It can't even be called "work".

[Kithelle]

So really it's just them not wanting to do the work then? In an expansion where they boast about player agency, seems like a thing you wouldn't want to skip on.

More like 2H Enhancement never worked so they abandoned it in Vanilla? Enhancement was easily probably the worst spec in Vanilla and the ONLY thing it was ever good for was the one in a million uber WF proc that could one shot someone in PvP

[oland138]

Well, 2H Enh would require an agility-based 2H mace and/or 2H axe to be added into every raid tier, for the sake of a half-a-spec. If your group doesn't have this person, it's probably trash unless SV/Feral happen to have the same stat prio as 2H enh. Until now they've been using staves and polearms too so...

One of their justifications for having personal loot is these niche loot requirements. Would it really be that hard to have greyed out primary stats? They already do this with the vast majority of loot in the game.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Its never.
They would have to redesign weapons to be able to facilitate it.
There are currently zero 2 handed weapons that would suite the playstyle that have agi on it.

Truth of the matter is, dual wield will likely always work better for Enhance anyway.
As much as I like the idea, I would prefer if it just remains a funny thing to do while leveling and out in world content.

Try it some time, even on BFA. You would be surprised how much damage you can do with a 2 hander.

You might also be surprised how bad the animations look with it.

[Selah]

More like 2H Enhancement never worked so they abandoned it in Vanilla? Enhancement was easily probably the worst spec in Vanilla and the ONLY thing it was ever good for was the one in a million uber WF proc that could one shot someone in PvP

As was the case for many specs and classes? I'm glad they didn't give up on them as well. It can't hurt to make the option available to players.

[Oturanboa]

Then it's never.

Give up 2h enhancement. It hasn't been in game since Vanilla. It isn't something they want, and they've made that SIGNIFICANTLY clear every single time it's been asked.

They also said "you think you do, but you don't" People kept asking, they kept denying. Yet, in the end, we played vanilla after 15 years. It wasn't something i perticularly wanted but i enjoyed the nostaljia of it as well.

We should keep asking. They WANT TO listen to players atm. They are advertising shadowlands with "player agency". Being able to choose your weapon is putting meat around the name: RPG.
Class fantasy supports it, a lot of people want it and it will not hurt anyone who wants to use duel wield... Only thing between us and 2h enhancement is a minuscule amount of work done by devs.

I'm not asking anything more than what they are doing for frost death knight.

[Azelas]

Get over it, it's not coming back and there is no need for it to come back. It was always a trash option anyway, and it changes nothing for the better.

[oland138]

Then it's never.

Give up 2h enhancement. It hasn't been in game since Vanilla. It isn't something they want, and they've made that SIGNIFICANTLY clear every single time it's been asked.

I bet you thought melee hunters would never happen.