Page 14 of 17 FirstFirst ...
4
12
13
14
15
16
... LastLast
  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by NihilSustinet View Post
    yup, every single other MMO that has made any attempt to create challenging, rewarding pve without the trinity has failed miserably.
    Dark souls PVE is a failure? Or did you mean large group?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinBash View Post
    Tank shortage? It is only ever mediocre and bad players that are hurt in this. Good players have groups to do stuff with because they don't suck and tanks are fine tanking for them.
    That's kinda the point, though, right? 99% of the game is utter trash players.

    It is only rude, pushy and uppity DPS that are hurt by this system.
    Funny. I'm not ever hurt by this system. I can queue as tank and effectively solo all the matchmade content. Only thing I don't do is LFR, because there's no point. However, I feel for all the players who hate healing and tanking and have to sit in enormous queues to get into groups and actually play the game.

    Eliminating tanking altogether would mean there is nobody keeping them in check and think of the most spergy DH you've ever seen in a dungeon. Now imagine everyone has his mindset and attitude towards content and bam, that is what you will have. It will be nothing but DH Main players everywhere.
    Sounds like every raid would be a speed run. Sounds AMAZING.

  2. #262
    Immortal Nnyco's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Haomarush
    Posts
    7,841
    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    Dark souls PVE is a failure? Or did you mean large group?
    Since when is dark souls a mmo.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Crabs have been removed from the game... because if I see another one I’m just going to totally lose it. *sobbing* I’m sorry, I just can’t right now... I just... OK just give me a minute, I’ll be OK..

  3. #263
    Hey remember how Guild Wars 2 got rid of the trinity?

    There's a reason we don't get rid of the trinity.

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    GW2 mobs have terrible weird AI patterns.

    - - - Updated - - -



    By designing the content intelligently rather than just giving you an island with a clsuterfuck of mobs wandering around that can be easily murdered with AoE?

    - - - Updated - - -



    GW2 is a mess for a whole variety of reasons, and it has nothing to do with this.
    4Head Just design it intelligently. Man, I hope Ion sends you a big check in the mail for consulting fees.

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by NihilSustinet View Post
    yup, every single other MMO that has made any attempt to create challenging, rewarding pve without the trinity has failed miserably.
    Interesting observation. And how many succeeded? Besides WoW and possibly EQ.

    I have not played that many MMO so cannot really tell. And as a follow on, how many that did incorporate trinity and also failed.

    Can the trinity really be that big of a factor in an MMO?

  6. #266
    the best solution is : dps and support and inside support support tank and support healbut all based on builds built according to specific spec,talents and objects.more freedom.roles are obsolete.

    I still love the diablo3 build system.Something similar could be done in wow, and in fact I think that some of this is to come, since we have currently seen features of diablo3 in wow, such as the WQ, Mythical + and later torghast.

    But it is not difficult to give life to wow. It would be enough with rework tanks to knigth (warrior + horse), warrior reworked to gladiator ... it is that there are many options and many people will play them (tanks) ... but blizzard seems, or that it no longer has imagination, or that nothing matters to him anymore ...and this is why tankes are so rare ... blizzard needs to do something with them, give them something attractive, a rework to knight, make them a gladiator, give them a 2 hand + shield weapon ... I don't know something that make it attractive for people to play them, but come on, what I think deep down is that the roles are failing.
    Last edited by Capultro; 2020-04-17 at 07:54 AM.

  7. #267
    Go play ESO if you want to step out of the usual holy trinity.

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by Sansnom View Post
    Interesting observation. And how many succeeded? Besides WoW and possibly EQ.

    I have not played that many MMO so cannot really tell. And as a follow on, how many that did incorporate trinity and also failed.

    Can the trinity really be that big of a factor in an MMO?
    that's mostly hyperbole. to most of the posters here WoW is the only MMO and anything else is a failure.

    fact is there's no need for the holy trinity in most of the content. the only thing where it's really beneficial is in organized group content.
    so in anything below highend mythics and raids it really isn't needed.
    I had fun once, it was terrible.

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Also, I don't really see any argument of why this would be a good thing
    His argument was very clearly that it would reduce the problem of having a bad dps-to-tank ratio. Now, I'm not saying that I agree with what he is saying, but if you cant see his argument then you need to get your eyes fixed. You can still think it's a bad argument of course.

  10. #270
    Ah, the good old holy trinity of dps, healer and threat management. Who doesn't love it.

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    For the purposes we are discussing (instanced group content), Destiny is very comparable. Destiny has fantastic complex boss fights and no set roles.
    Isnt Destiny a Shooter?
    I think I played a Shooter called Destiny once, if you mean that, obviously that is not a "valid" comparission.
    Try a comparrision with at least a similar Combat System as WoW.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinrael View Post
    OP: You try to bring about an idea that defies everything that this game's players are used to. I am all for interesting and innovative ideas, but you should reconsider your audience. MMO-Champion is more of a mob than an audience. No matter how good your idea is and how well it is argumented, they will simply tear you down for sport. And it isn't a well argumented idea in the first place, so....
    Its not even entirely that.

    What the OP is asking for is to fundamentally change the Combat System of an Existing game. This is not something "Easy" done, while I dont see any "fun" concept, I´m sure there can be one. But that needs to be integrated from the beginning, and the content need do be made for that.

    I cant see any way this could be made to work with WoW.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jinpachi View Post
    I say reintroduce threat management and tie it directly to damage, but give tanks talents (passive) that multiply the threat times (x) percentage, that way you don't have to gimp tank dps output.
    Thats basically how it works right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    Having a game capable of supporting any comp of characters is less restrictive on the players. That's the best kind of less restrictive.
    You just dont get it.

    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    Dark souls PVE is a failure? Or did you mean large group?
    Priceless, ... are for real?
    Dark Souls is a SINGLEPLAYER game, where you play a SINGLE Character.

    What do you bring next to the table? Doom? Yea, Doom also doesnt need Tanks/Healers.

  12. #272
    Warchief Serenais's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Czech Republic
    Posts
    2,093
    This would be a much larger change than it might first appear. Removing holy trinity would require all encounters and majority of classes/specs to be redesigned (I mean - all healing and tanking specs would no longer be viable and DPS specs would have to be changed to compensate for those changes and for encounter changes). This would include previous content (otherwise say goodbye to doing any dungeons during levelling, or staying in previous content on one of your alts, etc.). Considering how much workload this would entail, it is unlikely to be possible to fit into an expansion, and given the magnitude of the change, it would result in a completely different game.

    Therefore, no-holy-trinity design would require a WoW2, or, outright a different game franchise (as WoW2 would imply some degree of similarity).

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by Project 501D13R View Post
    You need the tank/heal/dps trinity in an mmo, otherwise every single fight ends up having one strategy.
    [video=youtube;laT7xex-0dM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laT7xex-0dM[video]
    How is this different from any other tactic? Without h3 you at least need to switch to evasive maneuvers if the enemy focuses on you, with h3 you just whack it till it dies and the only reason you need to move is because of some aoe. Getting rid of the h3 doesn't mean NPCs are devoid of tactics, classes can still have their strengths and weakneses, inlcuding more defensive capabilities, all it does is allow for other classes strengths to affect bosses, which currently can't be the case because "who would need a tank then". A decent formation would still need a vanguard, center and rear guard.
    You are welcome, Metzen. I hope you won't fuck up my underground expansion idea.

  14. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Woo hoo! so much creative solutions and intelligent design...when there is only one.
    What is your creative solution to introduce a replacement for Blaster Master which is less stressful but more skillful at the same time?

  15. #275
    WoW is now built on the haves being able to gawk at the have-nots. I'm sorry you may have to change what you play in order to do content, but the haves won't care. Not for you or any other group like you

    Roll a tank if you want to do content.

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    Dark souls PVE is a failure? Or did you mean large group?

    - - - Updated - - -


    That's kinda the point, though, right? 99% of the game is utter trash players.


    Funny. I'm not ever hurt by this system. I can queue as tank and effectively solo all the matchmade content. Only thing I don't do is LFR, because there's no point. However, I feel for all the players who hate healing and tanking and have to sit in enormous queues to get into groups and actually play the game.



    Sounds like every raid would be a speed run. Sounds AMAZING.
    dark souls is not an MMO

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by NihilSustinet View Post
    dark souls is not an MMO
    Really? It has about as much "MMO" as wow does for 99% of it's player base. Wow's main player base is effectively the same as SWTOR's kind of player base. Leave raids and tougher grouped content for people who actually socialize and want in-game friends. Cool. That's not what rando queue pug crap is for. That stuff is for overworld players to get to "experience" group content. Ergo, that stuff might as well be solo or equal to summoning friends in dark souls for zone clearing, because no one communicates in those groups, either.

    In dark souls 3, for instance, you can have 4 people on a team at once. That's basically wow dungeon status.

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    Really? It has about as much "MMO" as wow does for 99% of it's player base. Wow's main player base is effectively the same as SWTOR's kind of player base. Leave raids and tougher grouped content for people who actually socialize and want in-game friends. Cool. That's not what rando queue pug crap is for. That stuff is for overworld players to get to "experience" group content. Ergo, that stuff might as well be solo or equal to summoning friends in dark souls for zone clearing, because no one communicates in those groups, either.

    In dark souls 3, for instance, you can have 4 people on a team at once. That's basically wow dungeon status.
    just because WoW plays less and less like an MMO doesnt make dark souls more of an MMO. its not. at all.

  19. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by Sansnom View Post
    Interesting observation. And how many succeeded? Besides WoW and possibly EQ.

    I have not played that many MMO so cannot really tell. And as a follow on, how many that did incorporate trinity and also failed.

    Can the trinity really be that big of a factor in an MMO?
    I think the argument would be games that don't utilize the Trinity are failing because of a lack of defined roles that the Trinity addresses (among numerous other reasons). Games that fail that include the Trinity, aren't failing because of that specific mechanic, and mainly because they are just not that great to play.

  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by NihilSustinet View Post
    just because WoW plays less and less like an MMO doesnt make dark souls more of an MMO. its not. at all.
    Pre tell, what exactly constitutes an MMO and what can't you get from dark souls to fill those vague definitions?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •