Shadowlands shadow wishlist

[Axola]

Let me start off with the things i'd love to see changed in Shadowlands for Shadow (copied from the bnet thread i created)

Current shadow priest mastery is bland - Would be really nice if it acted like Mass Hysteria from Legion’s Xal’atath. (Perk in the weapon increased all shadow damage by 2% depending on how many stack void form had - i.e. in this case, the longer you stay in void form, would increase your shadow damage by x%(based on mastery))
This would give a better feel to the voidform

In level 45 talent row, it would be great if priests had Lingering Insanity either removed or baked as a passive, and created another talent to be there for insanity generation. (Could also create something like an insanity spender, as this is a burst focused tier, if LI was removed; for example devouring plague that spends all the current insanity, deals damage based on insanity spent and insanity stacks)

Another suggestion is instead of Fortress of Mind (Level 15 talent) - Remove it and introduce a talent that would impact the rotation, as the other 2 do;
Something like a Mind Sear proc that deals extra additional damage and generates more insanity (or just powered up mind flay that lasts bit longer and chain damages 2-3 targets)

Another change i’d suggest is to make Mindbenders’ hits spread Vampiric Touch/Shadow Word:Pain to nearby targets for a low duration (say 3 seconds or so)

Dark Ascension could use a rework as well, something in these lines would be good:
Empowers the priest to access extra abilities, upgrading the current ones to a more powerful versions of them (i.e. Mind Blast becomes AOE, Mind Flay roots targets, Void Bolt hits multiple targets etcetc, but increase the cooldown of the Dark Ascension to 2-3 minutes)

Suggestion for pvp change:
Add in the old spectral guise (stealth for 6 seconds while leaving a shadowy clone behind)
Add in a talent for mind flay root
Change the void shield to act like well of existence (expect in this case, stores up the X% healing for the next power word shield depending on Y% damage done)

//Which things would you guys like to see in Shadowlands for the shadow?

[Yvaelle]

Thoughts:

Mass Hysteria used to increase DOT damage by 2% per second while in Voidform, not all Shadow damage, just an FYI.

Regarding Lingering Insanity and Mass Hysteria, I think we need to move away from these long ramp up mechanics entirely. They are a really unhealthy design for the spec and the game. Almost all combat ends in less than a minute, and Shadow is still ramping up in that time due to Mass Hysteria & Lingering Insanity.

Fortress of the Mind should definitely be deleted. But I think the biggest issue on that tier is that 2 charges on Mind Blast is mandatory to play the spec properly - there is nothing they can add to that tier currently (due to the importance of not delaying your Mind Blasts for insanity generation) that will compete with 2 charges. So they need to delete Fortress of the Mind, but they also really need to make 2 charges on Mind Blast baseline.

Chain Mind Flay sounds super cool, I'd love to see that - but Mind Flay would have to do actual damage for it to ever be worth casting. Since all our power budget is in Voidform and ramp up mechanics, all our other casts only matter if they generate Insanity: which Mind Flay doesn't. So if we don't delete Voidform/Insanity, then even an empowered Chain Mind Flay would still get clipped into a single GCD to fill between Mind Blast & Void Bolts.

As example, Void Torrent isn't worth casting for the same reason- even though it does 3 times the DPS of Mind Flay. In Legion Void Torrent was amazing because it paused Insanity loss, and allowed you to gain Insanity during it. So when you got to high stacks (ex. say 45 currently, where I usually drop out of Voidform), you would use Void Torrent to extend it for another 4 seconds: to 49 stacks. Since it doesn't pause Insanity loss anymore, it's garbage. Oh also, Legion Void Torrent did more damage and had a shorter cooldown than the talent, and was baseline - so it didn't have the opportunity cost of being a talent. Sorry, just a little rant about how absolutely they wrecked Void Torrent in BFA

Mindbender really needs a way to distinguish itself from Shadowfiend. The DOT idea is interesting but if you're currently multidotting properly, and using Void Bolt properly, your proposed change wouldn't do anything - those adds should already be dotted if they are worth dotting, and Void Bolt will extend dots if they are dotted. What I'd like to see Mindbender do is something like channel an empowered Mind Sear for the duration. It's a Mindbender after all, it should do some more Mindy stuff rather than just whacking it with tentacles.

I like the idea of where you are taking Dark Ascension - it obviously needs to be fleshed out more - but if they gave us the old Dark Archangel wins during it, that would be super cool!

I really want Spectral Guise back for PVE reasons too - a big part of the allure of Shadow in like Pandaria/WOD, was that we could ghost mechanics - the same way that Hunters Feign out of targeted mechanics, rogues stealth, etc. Spriests used to be able to Guise mechanics - and that was amazing utility to nullify the occasional mechanic like that - and there are like at least 12 other specs that can do it, not to mention all Night Elves (Shadowmeld).

I liked what they did with the Mind Flay PVP talent that steals haste, but I think it would be cool if the Mind Flay slow got stronger every second it was channeled. So start it at a 50% slow, increasing 10% per second, with like a 4 second duration (so we can weave in a dot refresh or mind blast or etc). So you can potentially build to a strong slow or root even.

[deenman]

I miss cata shadow,the insanity mecanic has clearly been a huge failure,and it simply isnt as cool as it should be,or as cool as it can be,we saw in early legion what happens if its even sligthy tiped on the op side with surender,now its even worse than in bfa,granted they can change stuff until live to make it feel better,but its just gonna be bandaid fixes

[Darth-Piekus]

Thoughts:

Mass Hysteria used to increase DOT damage by 2% per second while in Voidform, not all Shadow damage, just an FYI.

Regarding Lingering Insanity and Mass Hysteria, I think we need to move away from these long ramp up mechanics entirely. They are a really unhealthy design for the spec and the game. Almost all combat ends in less than a minute, and Shadow is still ramping up in that time due to Mass Hysteria & Lingering Insanity.

Fortress of the Mind should definitely be deleted. But I think the biggest issue on that tier is that 2 charges on Mind Blast is mandatory to play the spec properly - there is nothing they can add to that tier currently (due to the importance of not delaying your Mind Blasts for insanity generation) that will compete with 2 charges. So they need to delete Fortress of the Mind, but they also really need to make 2 charges on Mind Blast baseline.

Chain Mind Flay sounds super cool, I'd love to see that - but Mind Flay would have to do actual damage for it to ever be worth casting. Since all our power budget is in Voidform and ramp up mechanics, all our other casts only matter if they generate Insanity: which Mind Flay doesn't. So if we don't delete Voidform/Insanity, then even an empowered Chain Mind Flay would still get clipped into a single GCD to fill between Mind Blast & Void Bolts.

As example, Void Torrent isn't worth casting for the same reason- even though it does 3 times the DPS of Mind Flay. In Legion Void Torrent was amazing because it paused Insanity loss, and allowed you to gain Insanity during it. So when you got to high stacks (ex. say 45 currently, where I usually drop out of Voidform), you would use Void Torrent to extend it for another 4 seconds: to 49 stacks. Since it doesn't pause Insanity loss anymore, it's garbage. Oh also, Legion Void Torrent did more damage and had a shorter cooldown than the talent, and was baseline - so it didn't have the opportunity cost of being a talent. Sorry, just a little rant about how absolutely they wrecked Void Torrent in BFA

Mindbender really needs a way to distinguish itself from Shadowfiend. The DOT idea is interesting but if you're currently multidotting properly, and using Void Bolt properly, your proposed change wouldn't do anything - those adds should already be dotted if they are worth dotting, and Void Bolt will extend dots if they are dotted. What I'd like to see Mindbender do is something like channel an empowered Mind Sear for the duration. It's a Mindbender after all, it should do some more Mindy stuff rather than just whacking it with tentacles.

I like the idea of where you are taking Dark Ascension - it obviously needs to be fleshed out more - but if they gave us the old Dark Archangel wins during it, that would be super cool!

I really want Spectral Guise back for PVE reasons too - a big part of the allure of Shadow in like Pandaria/WOD, was that we could ghost mechanics - the same way that Hunters Feign out of targeted mechanics, rogues stealth, etc. Spriests used to be able to Guise mechanics - and that was amazing utility to nullify the occasional mechanic like that - and there are like at least 12 other specs that can do it, not to mention all Night Elves (Shadowmeld).

I liked what they did with the Mind Flay PVP talent that steals haste, but I think it would be cool if the Mind Flay slow got stronger every second it was channeled. So start it at a 50% slow, increasing 10% per second, with like a 4 second duration (so we can weave in a dot refresh or mind blast or etc). So you can potentially build to a strong slow or root even.

Ever thought of Mind Flay as a normal DOT that makes the opponent go slow just like every other single class mechanic that does damage and slows and get a new spell in its place for example Shadow Flare or the old Mind Spike?

[Relapses]

Here's my wishlist:

• A class that isn't dogshit.

That's it. Probably a bit too much to ask for as the class looks absolutely fucking trashcan dumpster tier on Alpha. I guess it's a good thing I quit my SPriest already otherwise I might actually give a shit. Meh.

[Drench]

I want high dot damage back. No stupid huge ramp up. Then a spec in the talent tree to do single target burst and lower your cleave.


Edit: I also really want WOTLK VE back.... It was so nice.

[Yvaelle]

Ever thought of Mind Flay as a normal DOT that makes the opponent go slow just like every other single class mechanic that does damage and slows and get a new spell in its place for example Shadow Flare or the old Mind Spike?

I remember pitching something where during Voidform, Mind Flay would instead be an instant GCD that spawns a Void Tendril, and the Void Tendril would channel Mind Flay. So that's sort of like what you're meaning I think? It would be a 3 second duration, instant cast, 50% slow, with some damage.

Also Void Tendrils were adorable and I miss them.

[Luxeley]

Good ideas for changes, I couldn't have put it any better, especially your suggestions for the pvp talents. Since it does make sense, I doubt Blizzard will budge, unfortunately.

[Nefarious Tea]

*snip*

This is all really good!

Here's my thought for mindbender: why not make it (in addition to its current effect of generating insanity) cast mind flay in aoe; as in multiple beams. It gives a badass visual as well as a flavor explanation of how it generates more insanity, because it can aoe instead of just ST.

[Darth-Piekus]

Yvaelle what about in terms of PVP. The Shadowpriest in order to do damage must not be trained. Everytime you see a Shadowpriest every class goes and trains him and melee classes have a million ways to catch the Shadowpriest with the result of the Shadowpriest doing 0 damage. What should be changed for the Shadowpriest to be able to keep opponents away so the class can deliver that damage?

[Biomega]

It's sad to see so many good ideas, and to then realize that there's no way they'll change anything in SL except very minor details and numbers tuning. The fact that it was always the MECHANICS that pissed people off and that's the one thing they're not changing at all (or barely) really bothers me.

[Yvaelle]

Yvaelle what about in terms of PVP. The Shadowpriest in order to do damage must not be trained. Everytime you see a Shadowpriest every class goes and trains him and melee classes have a million ways to catch the Shadowpriest with the result of the Shadowpriest doing 0 damage. What should be changed for the Shadowpriest to be able to keep opponents away so the class can deliver that damage?

I mean, reverting to our old Shadow Orb system would help a lot.

One of the biggest benefits was having a Devouring Plague at least every 18 seconds, which healed for 3% of your max health per tick, with a like a baseline 18% heal - increasing with haste.

Additionally, we were harder to tunnel in that system, because we also had Spectral Guise, and 30s Psy Scream baseline. I'd really love them to just revert to a MoP design.

Beyond that though, the reason we get tunneled so hard is the ramping mechanics of Voidform. If we are allowed to stand and turret, we get an exponential benefit the longer we're ignored in Voidform. If we're tunneled, our entire class does nothing with really a very moderate amount of pressure on us (even one person is enough). So the only way to fix the current system, is to get rid of the ramps and have our class be innately useful - not only useful under Patchwerk/Council conditions.

If they are willing to switch to a Shadow Orb model, it should look like this IMO:

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...ing/488578/137

If they insist on keeping Voidform, it needs to be this, IMO:

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...ing/488578/159

Oh and!

Specifically for PVP, they implied we were getting Flash Heal back for Shadow, instead of Shadowmend - but I believe it's not in the Alpha build. That would help a lot to have something on a school other than Shadow to do when interrupted. Additionally they said we were getting POM too - I really hope that's true, and instant as it was historically. Both would be a great boon for Shadow PVP.

Beyond that - though I sort of doubt this - I think they need to look at buffing our physical mitigation to be at least on par with Elemental (mail+shield) & Boomkin (leather +360% bonus armor or whatever from chickenform). Bring back Inner Fire or buff Shadowforms damage reduction.

It can be a small buff - but the point is we shouldn't be simultaneously, "the least mobile spec in the game", and "the squishiest spec spec in the game", and "the most vulnerable to being sat on.

[Well]

Well, these are my thoughts on Shadow:

Do I like the ramp up? Yes. It creates a unique identity for shadow and I luv it.
Do I like the problems it brings, as in (and very lightly touching on the multitude of those) fights being generally over in less than 1 min and being very bad or at least undesired in M+? No, not at all.

What I want to see is a reversion, so:

Instead of ramping up, you fight ramping down. What I mean with this is that when you go into Voidform, instead of having to build stacks, the stacks are there at the very start, let's say 50 of them (increased by Mastery) and the point of the Voidform is to stay as much in it as possible because you have the 50 stacks to start. This solves many problems in on-demand burst, Voidform feeling good, Voidform feeling impactful, Voidform feeling wanted & treasured and on top of that, the player's gameplay being a blast to play.

You start your Voidform with 50 stacks and Insanity starts draining. You need to stay in Voidform for a specific amount of seconds, less (or more) with Mastery, or face a % decrease in insanity generation while out of Voidform, preventing you from getting into the next Voidform as soon as you'd like.

What this does, in my view, is that expert players will be able to pump out and enjoy playing Shadow because they will have no problem staying in Voidform for the required amount of time, essentially always, and the less experienced players will receive instant gameplay feedback on how they've done in their last voidform. That of course means that if you get stunned and mess your Voidform up, you will suffer, but this is the price to pay for having a cooldown that has no cooldown in Voidform.

The original starting point of how many Voidform stacks you have when going into Voidform could be low (like 15) and having that number scale with Mastery would help Shadow not only feel much better to play, but its experience scale with gear as well. Of course, you would keep building stacks the longer you stay in Voidform.

Essentially what the general plan of the spec would like would be this:

Build insanity to get into Voidform. Insanity Generation from spells is reduced if you didn't manage to stay in Voidform for a specific amount of time (increased by Mastery). The worse you've done, the bigger the penalty.

You go into Voidform and you're granted a specific amount of stacks immediately, let's say 15 at the very start of the expansion with no mastery. As with the time needed to stay in Voidform to incur no penalties, the amount of stacks you start with in Voidform are also increased with Mastery. The longer you remain in Voidform, the more stacks you build.

You pew-pew in Voidform for as long as you can manage and (this would be baseline) Lingering Insanity kicks in if you've succeded in staying in Voidform for as long as required granting you half the haste you managed to build (i.e. not the base stacks on top).

Out of Voidform will be your multidotting and planning for the next Voidform phase.

[FuxieDK]

//Which things would you guys like to see in Shadowlands for the shadow?

I have no class/spec specific wishes: Remove Torghast, before it's too late!

[Sizzlestat]

Remove Voidform or make it at least an option via a talent.
Why? Because in Shadowlands, we're supposed to be priests, just priests. It's supposed to be all about strengthening class fantasy, isn't it? With keeping voidform, we're Priests who decide to go into shadowform, only to decide to go into voidform. So why is there a shadowform in the first place? If they're serious about class fantasy, the shadowform is the way to go and there is no need for a voidform, when it's just a "better" shadowform. And since the name of the specialisation is shadowpriest and not voidpriest, i wish that voidform is being removed from the game. I also wish that they're bringing back one of the class iterations from the past, like from MoP or Cata, when playing a shadowpriests was actually fun.

[Soulwind]

Just... don't make S2M mandatory again... please, I'm not strong enough to go through that again...

[Darth-Piekus]

Back in Legion or was it WOD I proposed a system that would give you two types of play. One based on Direct Damage like an Arcane Mage and one Based on DOTS. Cant find the link though anymore.

What is the point though. They will never do any of these changes that a lot of people are proposing.

[Nefarious Tea]

Well if nothing else, right now it looks like a Shadowpriest is going to be mandatory in every raid:

Fae Blessings (Night Fae) - Surround yourself with helpful sprites, causing your next 10 spell casts to aid your target depending on your chosen spell.

• Shadow Mend, Mind Blast, Flash Heal, Heal: Reduces an ally's damage taken by 10% for 15 sec.
• Power Word: Shield: Invigorates your target with 2% mana or 20% resource.
• Void Bolt, Prayer of Healing, Power Word: Radiance: Reduces the cooldowns of up to 5 allies’ major abilities by 3 seconds.

3s cooldown reduction on 5 people for ten casts of void bolt? That's an insane amount of cooldown reduction; it's 2.5 minutes of cooldowns just removed across the entire raid.

[Yamuri]

I just want 1. Shadow ravens and 2. not to be punished for being distracted by a mechanic and having to build up the rotation again.

[Ophenia]

Well if nothing else, right now it looks like a Shadowpriest is going to be mandatory in every raid:



3s cooldown reduction on 5 people for ten casts of void bolt? That's an insane amount of cooldown reduction; it's 2.5 minutes of cooldowns just removed across the entire raid.

The problem is that means that every 1.5min, you will have to only use Void Bolt and not Mind Blast for it to be fully effective. Until you've thrown your 10th Void Bolt, you shouldn't use Mind Blast, at all.

So you'd gain raidmandatoriness at the cost of quite some DPS