Who’s the greatest President or Leader of your country?

[Dsonsion]

Lincoln. He kept the nation together by defeating the racist slave owning democrats during the civil war.

Worst would probably be FDR. We should have stayed out of WW2 and let the communist get exterminated.

Oh boy, you're in for a wild ride if you read the correspondence between Lincoln and Marx. That top hat guy was not who you think he was.

[JohnBrown1917]

Yeah I don’t bother arguing why racist shouldn’t be racist. You’re entitled to your opinion.

Seeing Obama as a terrible president is racist?

lol

[Shadowferal]

Either Roosevelt...

[Grimbold21]

This is southern Europe, we don't have great leaders here.

[Kellhound]

Teddy Roosevelt. Not really impressed with a single one that came after him.

[Frontenac]

Best Prime Minister: Pierre Eliott Trudeau (1968-1979, 1979-1984)

I don't like the guy much, but he's probably the first Prime Minister to treat Canada as a real independant country instead of a vassal state to UK or USA. He also did much for the welfare system we have and for bilingualism. Like it or not, the way this country defines itself is primarily his work. But I can't forgive him the way the patriation of the Constitution was done.

Best Premier of Québec: René Lévesque (1976-1985)

Charismatic, close to his people, with high democratic ideals and father of the nation. He was so great and beloved that even leaders from other parties will quote him or take him as an exemple, or pretend they are his heir. Even the liberals.

Worst Prime Minister: The first one, John A. MacDonald (1867-1873, 1878-1891)

Racist, bigotted, member of the Order of Orange, a drunkard, the way he treated the Natives and Meti people is a disgrace that has repercussions to this day. And there's also the scandals surrounding the railroads. If you want to know why the Conservative Party has troubles in Québec, look no further. The Louis Riel's execution was the nail in the coffin for the Tories in Québec. But yeah, he was not utterly inept in other respects...

Worst Premier of Québec: Jean Charest (2003-2012)

He threw his government and party in a miasma of scandals, and he may yet be charged for some of them. Maurice Duplessis probably did worse in matter of corruption, but at least he left a strong legacy to Québec. Jean Charest's legacy is insignificant. Nothing really important stands out. He just managed to remain in power, mainly because of the weakness of the opposition.

Prime minister at my birth Pierre Elliott Trudeau
Premier at my birth Robert Bourassa (1970-1976, 1985-1994), the last liberal Premier I respect (James Bay hydroelectric project, French as official language). But scandals with the construction industry in his first government mars his resume... "No matter what anyone says and no matter what anyone does, Quebec is, today and forever, a distinct society, free and capable of assuming its destiny and development."

I was old enough to remember both of them, although I got more interested in politics during Brian Mulroney's government and Bourassa's second government.

[Felya]

Lol what a stupid choice name actually one thing that people will remember of Obama in 100 years?.

ACA, Consumer Protection Agency, post recession recovery, paris accord and peace treaty with Iran. In fact, it would be impossible to talk about the 4 years following Obama, without talking about Trump’s seeming obsession with reversing all of it. From healthcare to corporate checks and environment, Trump will be defined by shitting on all of it, without actually having policy beyond a wall. That’s 12 years of history you have to ignore, to not remember Obama.

[Hobb]

Greatest president:
Abraham Lincoln -- For ending slavery and keeping America together during the Civil War.

On the other side of the coin

Worst President:
James Buchanan -- the president before Lincoln. For trying to expand slavery in America, heck even tried to have an amendment added to the Constitution which made slavery permanently legal. Also as the south geared up for succession he ignored his military commanders and fort commanders calls for reinforcements. Basically he just let the Civil War happen. As bad as Trump is, James Buchanan takes the cake for America's worst president.

[Adam Jensen]

United States:

Best:

Abraham Lincoln
Franklin Roosevelt (loses points for the whole "lock Japanese people into camps" though)
John F Kennedy

Worst:

Trump
Dubya
Ronny Raygun
Andrew Jackson

Who was president when I was born?

Ronny Raygun

Earliest memory I have of a president?

Clinton on TV saying "I didn't have sex with that woman"

[Thekri]

Best: Eisenhower. The worst are the post-Reagan, they were all clueless clowns. There are others who fucked up but they fucked up under intense circumstances, these fuckers (post-Reagan) fucked up while the US was by far the only superpower on earth.

Eisenhower left a really mixed legacy though. While his domestic policy was generally successful, his foreign policy pretty much kicked off the tradition of kicking sensitive issues down the road forever, and left simmering conflict zones all over the world. Eisenhower's robust "Containment" policy institutionalized the practice of never ending proxy wars, he failed to mitigate Soviet crackdowns in Hungary, and essentially ceded Eastern European influence, permanently split Korea. His policy of rapid decolonization is controversial, but the aftereffects of failed states spawning in the power vacuum left by withdrawing European powers certainly didn't do the world any favors.

I am not saying Eisenhower was a bad president, but with the benefit of hindsight, his track record on international affairs is pretty damn bleak.

As far as most successful post-War presidents, I would have to say Lyndon Johnson and Richard Nixon. Both were rather unpleasant people, and both were immoral and unscrupulous, but both also have a truly impressive list of fantastic successes. Nixon's first term in particular is, in my opinion, the most successful Presidential Administration in history. Withdrawing from Vietnam (Was ugly, but necessary), normalizing relations with China, huge advances in environmental protection, expanded voting rights through the 26th amendment (The last GOP president to do so), the most effective crackdown on organized crime in American history, deescalating the Cold War through SALT, setting the US on a path toward energy independence after the Oil Crisis, and so forth.

Now obviously I can't consider Nixon to be one of our greatest presidents, because he was a crook. However he was a very successful president, and the world is in much better shape for having have him. His attempt to undermine American democracy by criminal spying on his opponents, and silencing the press are very much deal-breakers. Things like this is what makes picking "Best" a difficult president, because good men are not necessarily the most effective leaders.

This is true for pretty much all world leaders, the most influential ones tend to have enormous baggage to go with their considerable success.

- - - Updated - - -

United States:

Best:

Abraham Lincoln
Franklin Roosevelt (loses points for the whole "lock Japanese people into camps" though)
John F Kennedy

Worst:

Trump
Dubya
Ronny Raygun
Andrew Jackson

Who was president when I was born?

Ronny Raygun

Earliest memory I have of a president?

Clinton on TV saying "I didn't have sex with that woman"

I feel topping the list with Lincoln is just expected, without looking too much into the specifics of it. Lincoln was a very unique President, in that he essentially did not hold the same office as the other 43 Presidents. Lincoln was an American dictator, in the Roman sense of the word. The legislative branch was unable to achieve quorum, and he flagrantly overruled the judicial branch whenever issues arose. He suspended freedom of the Press, arrested newspaper editors, and ruled by mandate (This is where executive orders come from). He was undoubtedly a great man, and I have great respect for him, but I don't really consider him a President in the same vein as the others, because authority wise, he wasn't one. If Lincoln had lived long enough to either voluntarily leave power, or decide to remain in power indefinitely, he would have cemented his place as either first or last. As it stands, there is a giant question mark on his legacy, as to if the only American dictatorship would have ended.

Washington on the other hand, lived long enough to make his intentions clear. The greatest act he ever did was to leave power, when he didn't have too. While his other contributions were massive, that single act is why America remains a republic to this day, which is why I would still put Washington on top.

[Adam Jensen]

Eisenhower left a really mixed legacy though. While his domestic policy was generally successful, his foreign policy pretty much kicked off the tradition of kicking sensitive issues down the road forever, and left simmering conflict zones all over the world. Eisenhower's robust "Containment" policy institutionalized the practice of never ending proxy wars, he failed to mitigate Soviet crackdowns in Hungary, and essentially ceded Eastern European influence, permanently split Korea. His policy of rapid decolonization is controversial, but the aftereffects of failed states spawning in the power vacuum left by withdrawing European powers certainly didn't do the world any favors.

I am not saying Eisenhower was a bad president, but with the benefit of hindsight, his track record on international affairs is pretty damn bleak.

As far as most successful post-War presidents, I would have to say Lyndon Johnson and Richard Nixon. Both were rather unpleasant people, and both were immoral and unscrupulous, but both also have a truly impressive list of fantastic successes. Nixon's first term in particular is, in my opinion, the most successful Presidential Administration in history. Withdrawing from Vietnam (Was ugly, but necessary), normalizing relations with China, huge advances in environmental protection, expanded voting rights through the 26th amendment (The last GOP president to do so), the most effective crackdown on organized crime in American history, deescalating the Cold War through SALT, setting the US on a path toward energy independence after the Oil Crisis, and so forth.

Now obviously I can't consider Nixon to be one of our greatest presidents, because he was a crook. However he was a very successful president, and the world is in much better shape for having have him. His attempt to undermine American democracy by criminal spying on his opponents, and silencing the press are very much deal-breakers. Things like this is what makes picking "Best" a difficult president, because good men are not necessarily the most effective leaders.

This is true for pretty much all world leaders, the most influential ones tend to have enormous baggage to go with their considerable success.

- - - Updated - - -


I feel topping the list with Lincoln is just expected, without looking too much into the specifics of it. Lincoln was a very unique President, in that he essentially did not hold the same office as the other 43 Presidents. Lincoln was an American dictator, in the Roman sense of the word. The legislative branch was unable to achieve quorum, and he flagrantly overruled the judicial branch whenever issues arose. He suspended freedom of the Press, arrested newspaper editors, and ruled by mandate (This is where executive orders come from). He was undoubtedly a great man, and I have great respect for him, but I don't really consider him a President in the same vein as the others, because authority wise, he wasn't one. If Lincoln had lived long enough to either voluntarily leave power, or decide to remain in power indefinitely, he would have cemented his place as either first or last. As it stands, there is a giant question mark on his legacy, as to if the only American dictatorship would have ended.

Washington on the other hand, lived long enough to make his intentions clear. The greatest act he ever did was to leave power, when he didn't have too. While his other contributions were massive, that single act is why America remains a republic to this day, which is why I would still put Washington on top.

I've been listening to Doris Kearns Goodwin's A Team of Rivals on my commute to work (so haven't listen to it for like a month . . .) and she paints a picture of Lincoln as a president who was shrewd with politics, empathetic towards his fellow man, and passionate towards his beliefs. I think if Lincoln hadn't been assassinated, he probably would have left when his second term was up in 1868, or been reelected like Roosevelt was ~70 years later. He was a war time president who made a few bad and/or controversial decisions because of that war. He did go after the press when the press was egging on Copperhead sentiment, which on one hand, you don't really want that sort of thing spreading in the media, but on the other hand, it's a violation of the 1st.

Still though, even with his faults, I think Lincoln was the best of them.

[TexasRules]

This thread is ridiculous on it's premise as the OP boasts Obama as the greatest leader in American History over the likes Of George Washington and Abraham Lincoln. It's a fire fest waiting for more gasoline. Why you are lighting up Canadians with Trudea is anyone's guess.

Then you have to get to the main point of your posts which is to tell everyone you think Trump is the worst. We know you are a liberal democrat on this board, you do not need separate threads to declare this over and over. You did not list Stalin or Hitler or Mao or any other mass murdering tyrant from history, just your standard I hate Trump post. We get it. Check that box for the hundredth time. We get it. And if you say it's because you phrased it as "worst leader of your country", what country are you claiming, because you picked 2 countries for both questions.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah I don’t bother arguing why racist shouldn’t be racist. You’re entitled to your opinion.

And yet you named a Canadian politician as great who did black face comedy. Bravo

[JohnBrown1917]

This thread is ridiculous on it's premise as the OP boasts Obama as the greatest leader in American History over the likes Of George Washington and Abraham Lincoln. It's a fire fest waiting for more gasoline. Why you are lighting up Canadians with Trudea is anyone's guess.

Then you have to get to the main point of your posts which is to tell everyone you think Trump is the worst. We know you are a liberal democrat on this board, you do not need separate threads to declare this over and over. You did not list Stalin or Hitler or Mao or any other mass murdering tyrant from history, just your standard I hate Trump post. We get it. Check that box for the hundredth time. We get it. And if you say it's because you phrased it as "worst leader of your country", what country are you claiming, because you picked 2 countries for both questions.

- - - Updated - - -



And yet you named a Canadian politician as great who did black face comedy. Bravo

Atleast Obama did not own slaves like Washington did.

[TexasRules]

United States:

Best:

Abraham Lincoln
Franklin Roosevelt (loses points for the whole "lock Japanese people into camps" though)
John F Kennedy

Worst:

Trump
Dubya
Ronny Raygun
Andrew Jackson

Who was president when I was born?

Ronny Raygun

Earliest memory I have of a president?

Clinton on TV saying "I didn't have sex with that woman"

Finally something negative about a democrat. Everybody likes to slobber over FDR and he did get the country back in order, then let it languish for 3 years or so just to keep power. The depression lasted longer then it should have and he was part of the reason. I am completely shocked that all your worsts are Republicans, wouldn't want to upset the apple cart echo chamber here and let your friends down. Nice quoting Clinton lying to congress and not putting him on the worst, Epstein is clapping somewhere.

- - - Updated - - -

Atleast Obama did not own slaves like Washington did.

And nobody else in the entire world at the time owned slaves. And the people wanted him to be King. And he turned it down. Without Washington, there would be no Obama. But hey, you toot that liberal horn all you like.

[Felya]

This thread is ridiculous on it's premise as the OP boasts Obama as the greatest leader in American History over the likes Of George Washington and Abraham Lincoln. It's a fire fest waiting for more gasoline. Why you are lighting up Canadians with Trudea is anyone's guess.

I chose Reagan and you don’t seem to care as much... it’s as if people have teams or something, that they stick to.

Without Washington, there would be no Obama.

That’s a solid point... who was the republican ameba President? I choose them...

[JohnBrown1917]

And nobody else in the entire world at the time owned slaves. And the people wanted him to be King. And he turned it down. Without Washington, there would be no Obama. But hey, you toot that liberal horn all you like.

Calling me a liberal is just insulting.

And yeah, everybody who owned slaves of that time is a scumbag, what of it? Same goes for most US presidents. Just so we don't have to go down the path of bringing up shitty democrat presidents.

[TexasRules]

Calling me a liberal is just insulting.

And yeah, everybody who owned slaves of that time is a scumbag, what of it? Same goes for most US presidents. Just so we don't have to go down the path of bringing up shitty democrat presidents.

I said toot the liberal horn, I did not call you a liberal. But if that is your reading comprehension style, go with it, it suits most of the posters here. So you are now not defending Obama with a slavery comparison, but now calling him a scumbag? Toot that right wing horn all you like also.

[JohnBrown1917]

I said toot the liberal horn, I did not call you a liberal. But if that is your reading comprehension style, go with it, it suits most of the posters here. So you are now not defending Obama with a slavery comparison, but now calling him a scumbag? Toot that right wing horn all you like also.

I don't think you understand anything about what I said. As it turns out, multiple people can be shitty. But one owned slaves, and the other did not.


I'll let you figure out the difference, might take a few hours. And also another hint, lots of Criticism from Obama is left-wing, not all of it is from crazy far-right wing nutjobs.

[Felya]

I said toot the liberal horn, I did not call you a liberal. But if that is your reading comprehension style, go with it, it suits most of the posters here. So you are now not defending Obama with a slavery comparison, but now calling him a scumbag? Toot that right wing horn all you like also.

It’s as if no choice is the right choice, unless it’s your choice.

[josykay]

Best:
Frederick III
Friedrich Ebert

Unfortunatly both died to early in "office".
Their successors were unfortunatly unfit to rule and ruined everything.
William II was spared from the worst... because well, bis failure was to act accordingly, and clearly refusing to support Austria if Russia or England would intervene.

Worst:
Paul von Hindenburg
Adolf Hitler

Such a shame, that when Ebert died in Office, Hindenburg, a reactionary senile dirtback was elected, with hate for democracy... paving ground for the Nazis... who would create a dictatorship, start a worldwar and exterminate millions.