Holy Power is back..for ALL Paladins

[Aeula]

I like holy power as a ret.

Holy and Prot spec don't exist for me since I only do DPS so I honestly couldn't care less.

[iosdeveloper]

watched some streams
leveling as holy is a cakewalk!
you get crusader strike, shield of whatever from prot and mass holy shock covenant spell
there's like a full dps rotation for holy

[Loveliest]

Good.

Removing HoPo made protection Paladin feel absolutely clunky. It's the entire reason I retired my Prot pally after maining him since wrath.

I doubt we will get the CS <filler> <filler> CS <filler> <filler> CS rotation of MoP and WoD but this is a welcome change.



Shhhhh I don't exist

Only CS was on a 3s CD. So only one filler inbetween. You sure you played prot? Sigh... I so wish Blizz would stop listening to people who bearly even remember how a class played. Prot pala in legion cluncky... really...

[Melsiren]

Only CS was on a 3s CD. So only one filler inbetween. You sure you played prot? Sigh... I so wish Blizz would stop listening to people who bearly even remember how a class played. Prot pala in legion cluncky... really...

Hey, I'm sorry I offended you.

But you might want to fact check... here I won't do the reading for you but let me help you.

MoP
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...-Paladin-Guide

WoD
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...-Paladin-Guide

If you have any questions, I can help answer them so you can be caught up with the rest of the class.

Or you can ask Merin and question him, he is way more qualified than me.

Have a nice day.

PS, Yes, Clunky and I would like to add unrewarding.

[Rhozul]

I've been a Prot Paladin main since TBC, and I am SO happy to see Holy Power back for everyone. It was a defining resource for us and losing it caused so many problems. For one, Shield of the Righteous spam. Because you could just press the button three times in rapid successful, the spell's damage had to be balanced around early fight when you could spam SotR for chunks of damage so it never felt impactful like it used to. Furthermore, if it means they can finally give us the Protection answer to abilities like Maul or Revenge (ie spenders that use the Defensive Resource for offense), we might see a real bump in our damage that could make us competitive with Protection Warriors in M+.

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Thanks for the link!
Jeez, does not look promising so far. Really hoping things improve as alpha testing progresses.

Numbers tuning is always the last part of the design process. It's more important that the rotation feels good to play first.

[Kharli]

*groans in Ret Paladin* please take this combo-point lite away, but nooo don't listen to us.. give it back to ALL of us... >.< damn it blizzard, il go sit in my buff-bot corner I guess... while I don't play holy, I'm curious to see exactly how they intend to implement holy power again for protection.

[Lucavian]

Holy power for prot feels strong, real strong.

Feels the same for ret, the talent tweaks are fine.

Feels like holy will be last tier healer unless a lot changes. Glimmer scales like rising mist for mistweavers but is limited to 8 targets, holy shock has 50% longer cd than it did when we last had holy power. Infusion buff was reversed and feels less impactful. Devo aura mastery was nerfed to be weaker than dk antimagic zone. Holy can do great dps for a healer, but their healing feels bad on alpha.

[Demsi]

Holy power for prot feels strong, real strong.

Feels the same for ret, the talent tweaks are fine.

Feels like holy will be last tier healer unless a lot changes. Glimmer scales like rising mist for mistweavers but is limited to 8 targets, holy shock has 50% longer cd than it did when we last had holy power. Infusion buff was reversed and feels less impactful. Devo aura mastery was nerfed to be weaker than dk antimagic zone. Holy can do great dps for a healer, but their healing feels bad on alpha.

Isn't that usually the case with holy when you dont have much crit? i dont play holy too much but the difference between having low crit and high crit is night and day and i'm not just talking about numbers

[Clozer]

well if any ones been following the patch notes and watching the alpha streamers the last few hours that should be able to see i was exactly right about this, holy shock is now healing for absolute pish, the play style looks slow sluggish and disjointed between the holy power building and the actual healing. and out only non talent aoe heal, light of dawn is locked behind holy power which looks like its going to take mid expansion levels of haste to generate quickly.

GG blizz ya kill holy paladin.

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you can watch some one play it here, https://youtu.be/XiyGctThJns at the start till he switches. its very slow, holy shock is a tiny heal and dmg spell now. so fuck knows how were supposed to weave in flash and holy light to keep people alive till we have wod up.

Tiny heals cause you lost all your gear. All healers feel weak on alpha. Complain about actual combo points, not the numbers.

And CS->HS->CS->HS etc wasn't the best playstyle either. They had to change it. But man I don't want stupid shit combo points. Healers have to react to incoming damage and then react fast and not oh you didn't pool enough combo points? Well too bad now you can not heal now.

[Gasparde]

Looking at that new Night Fae Covenant ability for Palas... I can already see raids filled with Holy Palas that don't spend any HP. Easy solution to everyone who dislikes HP *slowclap*

[Lucavian]

Looking at that new Night Fae Covenant ability for Palas... I can already see raids filled with Holy Palas that don't spend any HP. Easy solution to everyone who dislikes HP *slowclap*

Why would they be filled with them, auras usually don't stack. However, they also have to be careful with the aura of summer one that has a high chance that your allies will do some % damage as holy damage. There's a mathematical tipping point where it becomes more beneficial to bring a ret paladin that just uses non-holy power spenders and let's your other 14 odd ppl do extra damage which would be better than the ret spending holy power.

[Gasparde]

Why would they be filled with them, auras usually don't stack. However, they also have to be careful with the aura of summer one that has a high chance that your allies will do some % damage as holy damage. There's a mathematical tipping point where it becomes more beneficial to bring a ret paladin that just uses non-holy power spenders and let's your other 14 odd ppl do extra damage which would be better than the ret spending holy power.

Because the tooltips say these auras are party-wide, not raid-wide. Also, having 3 of those auras might be better than just having one.
Like, I can totally see a party with all healers and a pala just sitting on the 10% healing aura for ages - meanwhile there's 3 dps groups all with a holy pala sitting on the dps aura. Fuck, just imagine if they stacked - 5 pallies with the healing aura buffing each other would surely make up for not using HP.

This shit sounds just as mental and broken as the ability that gives warriors a mini bloodlust for their party. If these abilities end up in even just a semi decent state everyone and their grandma will stack and abuse them like mad.

[CostinR]

Not going to comment as holy but I absolutely like it for Prot and Ret.

[Lucavian]

Because the tooltips say these auras are party-wide, not raid-wide. Also, having 3 of those auras might be better than just having one.
Like, I can totally see a party with all healers and a pala just sitting on the 10% healing aura for ages - meanwhile there's 3 dps groups all with a holy pala sitting on the dps aura. Fuck, just imagine if they stacked - 5 pallies with the healing aura buffing each other would surely make up for not using HP.

This shit sounds just as mental and broken as the ability that gives warriors a mini bloodlust for their party. If these abilities end up in even just a semi decent state everyone and their grandma will stack and abuse them like mad.

You can put them in a party, you can put them in a raid, you can put them side by side, to come to each other's aid, but the aura still won't stack. You'd only need 1 holy paladin to give the +10% output healing to your whole healing comp. If you put other paladins in other groups you're trading a dps slot (or another healer slot) for an extra 10%, but since many other healers have better aoe healing since you'd have next to none without using LoD you're better off with a RestoShaman, Disc, Holy Paladin all grouped up plus whatever you use. Ignore the +10% received part, 10% received isn't going to make up the healing you could have had if you had only brought 1 NoHPPaladin.

[Dakara]

If we had a reliable Holy Power dump to avoid over-capping (as a Healer) I might be able to get on board. Eternal Flame (HoT) could of been a great Dump to place on the Tank during times of low healing.

If Seraphim had the CD removed (and of course re-balanced) we could potentially build around keeping it at 100% uptime (like Inquisition for Ret) to avoid wasting HP.

As it stands, unless I missed something, I do not want to be in the situation of being capped at 5 Holy Power and having to choose between over-capping or over-healing.

[bicycle]

If we had a reliable Holy Power dump to avoid over-capping (as a Healer) I might be able to get on board. Eternal Flame (HoT) could of been a great Dump to place on the Tank during times of low healing.

If Seraphim had the CD removed (and of course re-balanced) we could potentially build around keeping it at 100% uptime (like Inquisition for Ret) to avoid wasting HP.

As it stands, unless I missed something, I do not want to be in the situation of being capped at 5 Holy Power and having to choose between over-capping or over-healing.

Overhealing with a manaless heal is perfectly fine. If you don't need a big instant heal and you also don't have any use for the mana you saved, the content was trivial anyway.

[InflaterMouse]

Don't really want to. Ok, maybe as a protection it is not really that big of a deal, but as healer? NO.

If its a big deal for holy its a big deal for ret and prot. Anyone I ever met or talked to who loved pally hated holy power and the system. If any of the 3 specs has holy power they all should or they all shouldn't. I feel like HP is a way for them to be lazy and not put thought into making the rotation workable yet challenging. I mean other classes have SOOOOOO much easier rotations to be viable and they never even consider working on them, just keep fking pally mains.

[Dakara]

Overhealing with a manaless heal is perfectly fine. If you don't need a big instant heal and you also don't have any use for the mana you saved, the content was trivial anyway.

Not necessarily true about the trivial content but I understand the point about overhealing.

Ultimately, for a Healer spec I feel WoG and LoD would be better served with CD's instead of Holy Power as their limiters. At least with CD's they're independent of each other opposed to sharing the same resource in a builder/spender spec.

[msdos]

The last time I played a pally was in Wrath and HP was stupidly strong, wasn't there a spell specifically designed as an HP dump for Holy? It healed harder based on how much HP you had banked up IIRC. If they gave Holy a finisher for it I could see it being good, but adding it to current holy to try and make it work seems odd.

[Lucavian]

The last time I played a pally was in Wrath and HP was stupidly strong, wasn't there a spell specifically designed as an HP dump for Holy? It healed harder based on how much HP you had banked up IIRC. If they gave Holy a finisher for it I could see it being good, but adding it to current holy to try and make it work seems odd.

Okay so much wrong here. HP didn't exist in Wrath. HP was always a set cost amount, there was never a dump. It was never particularly strong. They didn't just add it to holy to make it work, we have the same tools we had before minus one aoe builder I think. It's other changes, like the gimping of light of dawns healing, the increased cooldown on holy shock, the loss of the double crit effect of holy shock, the fact that word of glory is stronger on prot than it is holy ect.