Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[PACOX]

His stats can look wierd but its this bit that threw you off He is talking about the mortality rate of those that require hospitalisation. Not the total mortality rate those infected or even those with symptoms.

For reference in the Netherlands a total of 9897 people have been hospitalised with Corona and 3916 deaths have been reported. So the number doesn't look that unrealistic.

Exactly. I did it that way because he said he was more concerned about West Nile Virus than COVID19. I pointed out that that WNV is not particularly deadly or a immediately threat to anyone. So much so that they don't even track the actual infected but the very small unfortunate percentage that get sick.

If you wanted to compare WNV to COVID19 you use the same metrics correct? Which you be death:hospitalizations. 5 < 37, so his argument that WNV is a bigger issue makes no sense.

- - - Updated - - -

Nearly 3k dead in the US today.

How many people in the US died to West Nile Virus today?

[Meldetia]

Christ, my Brother in Law suffered a mild heart attack so was in hospital... and he ended up picking up COVID-19 there. :/

Wow that sucks. I hope he ends up having a mild case.

[Draco-Onis]

Imagine a disease that mostly kills retired people (or just about to be) living off their pensions.
A dream come true for many a government.

It would also kill a lot of the leadership of most governments as well.

[stevenho]

I don't think this one has high enough mortality rate to kill "a lot".
Quite a few of them got it with Prince Charles and the Boris leading the pack, but none of them (that I know of) died from it.

[Zantos]

I don't think this one has high enough mortality rate to kill "a lot".
Quite a few of them got it with Prince Charles and the Boris leading the pack, but none of them (that I know of) died from it.

Yet. If we open up to early and overwhelm the hospital infrastructure even more, then it very well could see a spike in mortality rate. Right now, its what little ability we have to help those in need that keeps it low.

[stevenho]

Yet. If we open up to early and overwhelm the hospital infrastructure even more

Some never even closed in the first place.
And their hospital infrastructure is doing just fine.
Sounds wierd I know.

[Shadowferal]

Because they clearly are.

And will using that language convince them that they shouldn't?
Because that's what your goal should be. Not to provoke...draw lines...

[breadisfunny]

I don't think this one has high enough mortality rate to kill "a lot".
Quite a few of them got it with Prince Charles and the Boris leading the pack, but none of them (that I know of) died from it.

a fair bit of iran's leadership died from it.

[lockybalboa]

Don't worry guys. Growth rates are stabilizing already. Don't listen to the doommongers' over-exaggeration. They feed on people's misery and can't live with people being positive.

[breadisfunny]

Don't worry guys. Growth rates are stabilizing already. Don't listen to the doommongers' over-exaggeration. They feed on people's misery and can't live with people being positive.

oh look whose back. yeah we just had one of the highest death rates today but NOPE IT'S GETTING BETTER GUYS.

[lockybalboa]

oh look whose back. yeah we just had one of the highest death rates today but NOPE IT'S GETTING BETTER GUYS.

You have to look at recent trends. The number of new cases have been stabilizing of late. Look at the growth factor. The measures are working.

[Very Tired]

So what exactly is the recommendation for people or families that were living pay check to pay check before all of this and are now out of work amidst this shut down? I know it's easy to dismiss them all by linking a few pictures of dumb protesters who just want haircuts, but those types of low income families are supposed to be extremely common all across the US.

[Benggaul]

It may be time to acknowledge that George RR Martin gave up, and is hoping no one notices he delayed his book again.


/stole this from a friend!

Please, that lazy, fat hack is just annoyed that nobody likes the ending he had planned so now he has to come up with something new. He'll never finish that series.

----------------------------

2804 deaths yesterday in the US marking a new daily high and bringing the total to over 45k. The 60k figure floated--even by Dr. Fauci--is looking less and less likely as time goes on...and this is still technically the first wave. There will undoubtedly be at least a second, given how fucking stupid some of the population are being with the prodding of the Clown in Chief.

[Endus]

So what exactly is the recommendation for people or families that were living pay check to pay check before all of this and are now out of work amidst this shut down? I know it's easy to dismiss them all by linking a few pictures of dumb protesters who just want haircuts, but those types of low income families are supposed to be extremely common all across the US.

Who are you expecting an answer from?

Those of us outside the USA can't really help. We've got our own issues at home, with the same pandemic. And the USA is rich as hell; you shouldn't be expecting foreign aid for this kind of crisis to begin with.

Those in power? They're either trying to get them help, or they aren't. It should be obvious which of the two these folks should support. Even if that seems to rarely be the case.

If they're going to insist on refusing to abide by stay-at-home orders and social distancing recommendations, then there's going to come a time when you should probably treat them the same way you do those idiots who were licking fruit in grocery stores and saying they had the virus; those idiots got charged with making terrorist threats. If you're trying to foster and encourage a pandemic, there should be legal repercussions. These types aren't innocents, and shouldn't be granted much, if any, sympathy for any hardship they're suffering.

The reality is that the American system is failing to support its people. This is what it looks like when there are deep systemic infrastructural failings in a government. No amount of "hoo-rahs" or "USA #1!" chants will fix those errors. And the time is well past when you should have addressed them. Unfortunately, that means a lot of people are going to suffer and struggle. Blame those who encouraged and fostered these policies, if you take issue with that; they're the ones to blame.

[Egomaniac]

So what exactly is the recommendation for people or families that were living pay check to pay check before all of this and are now out of work amidst this shut down? I know it's easy to dismiss them all by linking a few pictures of dumb protesters who just want haircuts, but those types of low income families are supposed to be extremely common all across the US.

Foodbanks, welfare, foodstamps, EI, etc.

Some states are making it illegal to evict tenants during this crisis. Similar laws are in place regarding mortgages.

Many utility companies are halting service shutdowns and waiving late fees during this crisis.

[Zantos]

Some never even closed in the first place.
And their hospital infrastructure is doing just fine.
Sounds wierd I know.

The only ones doing ok are the hospitals not in a major area. That'll change if this were to get really bad really quickly.

[Mayhem]

I want to congratulate the US on taking first place in active cases!

You've beaten Europe, finally.

[PhaelixWW]

Yeah I remember that. At least now there's a consensus and guideline for these. I think there was a number of 80%(forgot where heard) of people on ventilators were dying, which may point to it being more harmful than helpful especially with all the evidence coming out to stop treating this like we normally do.

There was a very good opinion piece in the NYTimes yesterday about that topic.

A (large) excerpt:

We are just beginning to recognize that Covid pneumonia initially causes a form of oxygen deprivation we call “silent hypoxia” — “silent” because of its insidious, hard-to-detect nature.

Pneumonia is an infection of the lungs in which the air sacs fill with fluid or pus. Normally, patients develop chest discomfort, pain with breathing and other breathing problems. But when Covid pneumonia first strikes, patients don’t feel short of breath, even as their oxygen levels fall. And by the time they do, they have alarmingly low oxygen levels and moderate-to-severe pneumonia (as seen on chest X-rays). Normal oxygen saturation for most persons at sea level is 94 percent to 100 percent; Covid pneumonia patients I saw had oxygen saturations as low as 50 percent.

To my amazement, most patients I saw said they had been sick for a week or so with fever, cough, upset stomach and fatigue, but they only became short of breath the day they came to the hospital. Their pneumonia had clearly been going on for days, but by the time they felt they had to go to the hospital, they were often already in critical condition.

In emergency departments we insert breathing tubes in critically ill patients for a variety of reasons. In my 30 years of practice, however, most patients requiring emergency intubation are in shock, have altered mental status or are grunting to breathe. Patients requiring intubation because of acute hypoxia are often unconscious or using every muscle they can to take a breath. They are in extreme duress. Covid pneumonia cases are very different.

A vast majority of Covid pneumonia patients I met had remarkably low oxygen saturations at triage — seemingly incompatible with life — but they were using their cellphones as we put them on monitors. Although breathing fast, they had relatively minimal apparent distress, despite dangerously low oxygen levels and terrible pneumonia on chest X-rays.

We are only just beginning to understand why this is so. The coronavirus attacks lung cells that make surfactant. This substance helps the air sacs in the lungs stay open between breaths and is critical to normal lung function. As the inflammation from Covid pneumonia starts, it causes the air sacs to collapse, and oxygen levels fall. Yet the lungs initially remain “compliant,” not yet stiff or heavy with fluid. This means patients can still expel carbon dioxide — and without a buildup of carbon dioxide, patients do not feel short of breath.

Patients compensate for the low oxygen in their blood by breathing faster and deeper — and this happens without their realizing it. This silent hypoxia, and the patient’s physiological response to it, causes even more inflammation and more air sacs to collapse, and the pneumonia worsens until oxygen levels plummet. In effect, patients are injuring their own lungs by breathing harder and harder. Twenty percent of Covid pneumonia patients then go on to a second and deadlier phase of lung injury. Fluid builds up and the lungs become stiff, carbon dioxide rises, and patients develop acute respiratory failure.

By the time patients have noticeable trouble breathing and present to the hospital with dangerously low oxygen levels, many will ultimately require a ventilator.

Silent hypoxia progressing rapidly to respiratory failure explains cases of Covid-19 patients dying suddenly after not feeling short of breath. (It appears that most Covid-19 patients experience relatively mild symptoms and get over the illness in a week or two without treatment.)

A major reason this pandemic is straining our health system is the alarming severity of lung injury patients have when they arrive in emergency rooms. Covid-19 overwhelmingly kills through the lungs. And because so many patients are not going to the hospital until their pneumonia is already well advanced, many wind up on ventilators, causing shortages of the machines. And once on ventilators, many die.

Avoiding the use of a ventilator is a huge win for both patient and the health care system. The resources needed for patients on ventilators are staggering. Vented patients require multiple sedatives so that they don’t buck the vent or accidentally remove their breathing tubes; they need intravenous and arterial lines, IV medicines and IV pumps. In addition to a tube in the trachea, they have tubes in their stomach and bladder. Teams of people are required to move each patient, turning them on their stomach and then their back, twice a day to improve lung function.

There is a way we could identify more patients who have Covid pneumonia sooner and treat them more effectively — and it would not require waiting for a coronavirus test at a hospital or doctor’s office. It requires detecting silent hypoxia early through a common medical device that can be purchased without a prescription at most pharmacies: a pulse oximeter.

Pulse oximetry is no more complicated than using a thermometer. These small devices turn on with one button and are placed on a fingertip. In a few seconds, two numbers are displayed: oxygen saturation and pulse rate. Pulse oximeters are extremely reliable in detecting oxygenation problems and elevated heart rates.

Pulse oximeters helped save the lives of two emergency physicians I know, alerting them early on to the need for treatment. When they noticed their oxygen levels declining, both went to the hospital and recovered (though one waited longer and required more treatment). Detection of hypoxia, early treatment and close monitoring apparently also worked for Boris Johnson, the British prime minister.

Widespread pulse oximetry screening for Covid pneumonia — whether people check themselves on home devices or go to clinics or doctors’ offices — could provide an early warning system for the kinds of breathing problems associated with Covid pneumonia.

People using the devices at home would want to consult with their doctors to reduce the number of people who come to the E.R. unnecessarily because they misinterpret their device. There also may be some patients who have unrecognized chronic lung problems and have borderline or slightly low oxygen saturations unrelated to Covid-19.

All patients who have tested positive for the coronavirus should have pulse oximetry monitoring for two weeks, the period during which Covid pneumonia typically develops. All persons with cough, fatigue and fevers should also have pulse oximeter monitoring even if they have not had virus testing, or even if their swab test was negative, because those tests are only about 70 percent accurate. A vast majority of Americans who have been exposed to the virus don’t know it.

There are other things we can do as well to avoid immediately resorting to intubation and a ventilator. Patient positioning maneuvers (having patients lie on their stomach and sides) open up the lower and posterior lungs most affected in Covid pneumonia. Oxygenation and positioning helped patients breathe easier and seemed to prevent progression of the disease in many cases. In a preliminary study by Dr. Caputo, this strategy helped keep three out of four patients with advanced Covid pneumonia from needing a ventilator in the first 24 hours.

[Kallisto]

So what exactly is the recommendation for people or families that were living pay check to pay check before all of this and are now out of work amidst this shut down? I know it's easy to dismiss them all by linking a few pictures of dumb protesters who just want haircuts, but those types of low income families are supposed to be extremely common all across the US.

Stay home and email their representatives and senators every day demanding something be done that means they won't financially be fucked. Longer term stop voting for people that will financially fuck them over.

[breadisfunny]

I want to congratulate the US on taking first place in active cases!

You've beaten Europe, finally.

we've tried really hard.we just have to be no. 1!