Will Torghast become boring fast?

[Tharkkun]

You and the other people here assume something that is not set in stone. People said the same thing about WoD , BfA “oh alpha is alpha, oh “beta is beta” finally the last argument is “maybe next expansion will better”.

From a developer’s point of view, alpha stage just means that function wise, it is ready, but with many bugs and beta stage has less bugs. Maybe torghast will be balanced for classes, but the overall torghast is meant to be easy, maybe it is “intended” You just give false hope, nothing more.

Based on some of the monumental changes that have occurred over the years during Alpha and Beta I'm going to say you're dead wrong.

Alpha stage is where they decide what ideas and systems will be final for the launch date. Beta is where they iterate upon these systems. Which means they keep the Torghast system but the tuning, layout, rewards, progression, difficulty, etc could change. PTR is where things are near final and developers are only seeking feedback.

[Hctaz]

Yet, mythic+ apparently isnt boring for most people. Odd.

Is it not???

I haven't played BfA so I'm not 100% sure how the system has changed. I guess with the removal of titanforging and the fact that there are much much easier ways of obtaining corrupted items elsewhere it isn't as bad... I just remember the nightmare that was M+ in Legion... Maw of Souls for AP grind, then anything for AP grind... Farming stupid Titanforged pieces of loot... Oof. System made me want to die with the way the Legion loot was.


As long as you're doing M+ solely for the fact that it's a fun challenge and you aren't trying to RNG your way up the loot lottery, it sounds pretty fun actually.

I just worry that farming Torghast endlessly for whatever reward system it has in place might get old really quickly if it's entirely RNG based.

[taishar68]

I don't know if it will get boring quickly because they can keep adding things to keep it interesting. Whether they will, of course depends on how we engage with the content. I don't know that Warfronts or Islands changed massively from what they were when BfA launched, but I always found them boring, and have done them sparingly at best. Admittedly, Islands could be fun with two people you know, communicating on how you want to do things, and Torghast might be the same, but at least you can do it solo. I think the best thing they can do is add periodical dynamics to the Tower, incentive it with various bonus rewards, etc. It would be a great way to have people "earn" old cosmetics...imagine beating a certain level and you get a chest that could contain Ashes of A'lar, for example.

[kamuimac]

Yet, mythic+ apparently isnt boring for most people. Odd.

its about the length of the run .

if average mythic + run take like 20 minutes its ok

thorgast ? from looks of things your average run will take 2-3 hours -_-

it will get boring very fast

i do think that putting there gear is huge mistake - as well as hoping for people to run it for months .

[Laughingjack]

its about the length of the run .

if average mythic + run take like 20 minutes its ok

thorgast ? from looks of things your average run will take 2-3 hours -_-

it will get boring very fast

i do think that putting there gear is huge mistake - as well as hoping for people to run it for months .

I wouldn't judge it on that just yet. It is super early in development and I think parts of it have been drawn out for testing,

[Kaladon]

Its possible but considering it is only in Alpha I am expecting many more tile sets and enemies to be added as time goes on towards launch. Things havent been tuned yet and its pretty obvious based off people killing the Tarrarague or however you say that name even though Blizz said its unkillable. Id expect in the coming weeks for things to get much more balanced and a clearer view on whats to come for Torghast to be shown off

[Cathbadh]

I don't think it'll get boring at all. Its a roguelike/lite experience, which means every run will be different. Look at games like FTL or Slay the Spire. They've had few changes over the years and are still widely played. They don't seem to get overly boring to most players.

[Nzx]

Hello. So, admittedly I'm not following Shadowlands all that closely, but I've been watching a few streamers play Torghast for hours and I'm starting to wonder what the point of it is, other than simple fun, which is fine. Due to the nature of the power ups, it looks like it only gets easier. Some streamers are just walking through it like they're a level 120 killing kobolds in Northshire. Shouldn't a system like this get harder, not easier?

Thanks for any thoughts.

Nah mate it's gonna be miserable garbage and you're gonna hate it therefore no one should buy the expansion and we should all start making YouTube videos about how much we hate it and don't play it

Am I doing it right?

[kamuimac]

I don't think it'll get boring at all. Its a roguelike/lite experience, which means every run will be different. Look at games like FTL or Slay the Spire. They've had few changes over the years and are still widely played. They don't seem to get overly boring to most players.

thats huge gamble betting on whether wow players like this type of game.

from what i see - they dont - thus why 2-3 hour non stop sessions of raiding are so unpopular and quick 20-30 minutes sessions of dungeons/mythic + and WQ emmisaries are extremly popular .

imo it has inherent design flaw in form of it being repeatable from start to finish - if i designed it it would have weekly lockout and option to save progress every 5 or 10 floors - such save would also save your anima powers for that lockout and enable you to cut gaming sessions shorter - imo this would be much more appealing to general playerbase instead runing the same easy floors for infinite times.

what we have now is people will spam it for 2-3 week and get extremly bored and burned out with it - thats what happens with D3 seasons so we can safely assume the same will be here.

[FelPlague]

Hopefully they have a mask-like mechanic, where we can choose to make them harder for rewards.

it being harder will just be you trying to get further.

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It will get boring after a month or two, just like visions

visions are not randomly generated, they are the same every single time.

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Yes, and that's how Diablo 3 does it as well. They definitely did say Torghast was procedurally generated and that is absolutely not true. Random spawns and events with blocked-off areas isn't that. Torghast technology looks to be a mix of the Island Adventure spawn system and Waycrest Manor locked doors.

is it procedurally generated, you simply don't know what it means and think it needs to make stuff from 100% scratch.
i bet you think minecraft isnt procedurally generated, cause not everything is randomly generated.

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That was exactly what I thought; the same repetitive grind of 20 year old mobs in this grey/purple hue.

BUT, you never know, it is alpha after all.

So what would you find fun? cause literally everything in the game is fighting mobs like we have for 15 years, but sorta different.

[Huggykaze]

I think the problem isn't whether it's hard or easy. Balance issues are the least of all problems. Imo, this system is extremely repetitive. Even if the floors change every time, even if the mobs change every time, even if we get more pick-ups... It's still a platform game without jumping, crouching and exploring pipes. I wonder if this will remain interesting, say, 3 months into SL.

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visions are not randomly generated, they are the same every single time.

I'm not sure if layout of corridors and patrol paths/compositions will make it last much longer to be honest. I mean, it won't matter that the floor is different if all there is to it is killing mobs.

[Wakozi123]

What is this? A post about Thorgast being boring really fast? First of all, it depends on what fast is for you. If a content becomes boring after three months of doing it multiple times a week, then I would call this NORMAL. Besides, due to the randomness of it, and all the Anima Powers you can collect, it always stays somewhat fresh. Also, it is way easier to level Twinks now. So you can always go in with more than one character.

Secondly, it is Alpha. It literally is in its infant steps when it comes to development.

[FelPlague]

I think the problem isn't whether it's hard or easy. Balance issues are the least of all problems. Imo, this system is extremely repetitive. Even if the floors change every time, even if the mobs change every time, even if we get more pick-ups... It's still a platform game without jumping, crouching and exploring pipes. I wonder if this will remain interesting, say, 3 months into SL.

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I'm not sure if layout of corridors and patrol paths/compositions will make it last much longer to be honest. I mean, it won't matter that the floor is different if all there is to it is killing mobs.

killing mobs is the entire game, if you dont enjoy the combat well then... what is there for you to do?
the whole point og torghast is enjoying the combat, while also adding modifiers to it, that allow you to make your class different, to become "overpowered" and to get silly make ups, like being able to have 20 dreadstalkers at once, or infernals up at all times. or 0 cooldown eye beam, and blade dance.

[Stormwolf64]

Obviously. We know blizzard never does things right. Look at island expeditions as an example. Could have been fun, was underdeveloped and boring instead.

[Huggykaze]

killing mobs is the entire game, if you dont enjoy the combat well then... what is there for you to do?
the whole point og torghast is enjoying the combat, while also adding modifiers to it, that allow you to make your class different, to become "overpowered" and to get silly make ups, like being able to have 20 dreadstalkers at once, or infernals up at all times. or 0 cooldown eye beam, and blade dance.

Killing mobs is a mean to an end, not an end in itself. In raiding you want to get the epics, plus with all the mechanics it's satisfying by the virtue of difficulty. While leveling, you want to get to max level, but you also get fetch quests, lore quests, treasure hunting etc. There are also professions for those of us who enjoy them, most of which do not require you to kill mobs.

Now you may say that Torghast will also be challenging and hence mechanically satisfying, but try grinding the same raid you have on farm for 5-6 weeks. B O R I N G.

So, your first point about killing mobs being the entire game is a gross oversimplification.

What you described Torghast's aim as is basically... memes. Torghast is for memes. Memes get boring really, really, REALLY fucking fast. I mean, ask poor Zoidberg. Even if I'm misunderstanding, WoW's combat system is the worst part of the game. The reason why raids are fun is that Blizz puts a ton of mechanics in each fight, and even then they become stale after 5-6 kills at best. Let's not even mention the AoE packs in raids ;_;

What Torghast needs to remain fresh is not changing floor layouts, but changing affixes, the same as Mythic+, but they need to be rerolled once every several hours, so that skipping a run because of bad affixes is not a decision you take lightly. In a group a number of affixes would be rolled from all the affixes attached to group members.

Additionally the difficulty has to grow not only with the floor but also your gear and bonuses that you picked up. The difficulty growth needs to be quadratic or exponential.

[czarek]

At this moments looks interesing BUT island expeditios looked interesting and fun also. Islands became trash content tbh :P

[PenguinChan]

Additionally the difficulty has to grow not only with the floor but also your gear and bonuses that you picked up. The difficulty growth needs to be quadratic or exponential.

Bad idea, every rogue-lite that has tried to do this just ends up reworking the scalars and making it much more subtle. The unfortunate truth is that not everyone is playing their class to its fullest (Read: Optimal) bonuses and stats. You can, of course, apply different scalars to weaker stats and weaker bonuses (Which is what should happen if they add this system) - but this still kind of defeats the purpose of getting stronger, y'know? It has to be a very fickle system where you balance it between time taken to kill things, avoiding mechanics, and how survivable you are.

That said, I do agree (If Torghast doesn't do it currently) that they should have some amount of subtle balancing to your choices and current floor. (FWIW I'm fairly ignorant to how the system wholly works, I just know the jist of it all.)

At this moments looks interesing BUT island expeditios looked interesting and fun also. Islands became trash content tbh :P

Which sucks, because it was essentially going to re-introduce scenarios back to WoW but they fucked it up.


I really hope in the future, both Torghast, Island Expeditions, and Scenarios opens Blizzard's eyes that people really enjoy these type of modes if it's designed decently and have good rewards for running it. Which means keep it around post-expansion aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa​

[Aeula]

Oh it probably will. Especially if you can’t pause your runs and come back later.

I don’t want to get through, say, ten floors and then have to rush out to do some irl bullshit only to be forced to start a fresh run, costing me whatever limited resource is required to enter.

Imo you should be allowed run one per week and you can leave and rejoin that run as often as you like.

Horrific visions demand 30 minutes of uninterrupted time. They’re a fucking nightmare and they’re boring to boot.

[kamuimac]

killing mobs is the entire game, if you dont enjoy the combat well then... what is there for you to do?
the whole point og torghast is enjoying the combat, while also adding modifiers to it, that allow you to make your class different, to become "overpowered" and to get silly make ups, like being able to have 20 dreadstalkers at once, or infernals up at all times. or 0 cooldown eye beam, and blade dance.

well you are both kinda right and wrong.

yes mmorpgs are all about killing mobs - but i would compare thorgast to just a bit longer Maw of Souls ap farm .

yes corridors will be different but at the end of day corridors are corridors - mobs are mobs - you will be runing the same place week after week till you puke from boredom .

the thing is for different people that "border of boredom " will come sooner or later.

imo for most it will come extremly fast because most of WoW playerbase nowadays cant deal with stuff that takes 2-3 hours non stop - they are just to old for it

i dont doubt thought that streamers will defend this type of content till death because its perfect streaming material for them - and thus $$$$$$ making.

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Oh it probably will. Especially if you can’t pause your runs and come back later.

I don’t want to get through, say, ten floors and then have to rush out to do some irl bullshit only to be forced to start a fresh run, costing me whatever limited resource is required to enter.

Imo you should be allowed run one per week and you can leave and rejoin that run as often as you like.

Horrific visions demand 30 minutes of uninterrupted time. They’re a fucking nightmare and they’re boring to boot.

and thats exackly what im talking about.

thats why non-stoppable repeatable content just wont work for playerbase in 2020.

f.... i have super easy example - imagine if your mythic raid didnt save you for trash/boss kills - only each time you go in there you have to rekill literaly everything - how long will you last rekilling the same stuff over and over again - and now imagine if you could loot it multiple times a week ? lockouts are there for a reason

[Phurox]

It’s almost like you have some kind of agenda... talk about sounding like a broken record.

Rifts are the best part of Diablo 3.

OT: You need to do stuff outside the tower to get into the tower, and they’re going to cap the runs - I think that’s probably a good idea and stops people from burning out.

Sounds shitty. Doing the assault in 8. 3 was what killed this patch for me. It's so trivial and boring.