Will Torghast become boring fast?

[Nelle]

Yes, just like everything else once the novelty wears off

[VinceVega]

The endless problem of WoW.

Put something in and people claim it will be boring fast. Put nothing in and keep it vanilla and people would claim they have nothing to do.

We don't know yet how it is going to be. What we do know, is that the current amount of abilities in Thorgast will not stay that high and are on that level because of testing. Some will be capped. Some will disappear, some new ones will join. But it will not be as easy to get to level 75 as it is now.

Also: Thorgast is way more adjustable by design. The can make new Floor designs, abilities and enemies without a problem or affecting anything else in the game. It has higher replay value than anything else in the game beacuse of hte ampunt of enemies and different layouts there are. Which is infinitely expandable.

So it DOES come down if it is fun to play? As far as we know it is right now. MMORPGS are ALL about replaying stuff. They can't come up with a new dungeon every two weeks. So they just have to keep it being fun by expanding the system for new stuff and they are done.
They did it with mythic+ which is a huge success. No matter if some people in the forums claim.
It does not need a offical leader board. That would suck the simply fun out of it again for being competetiv. And yes people probably will play it anyway in comp but will hate it a lot faster for being another "who has the longest"-competition

[Schizoide]

is it procedurally generated, you simply don't know what it means and think it needs to make stuff from 100% scratch.

No. Random spawns and blocked off areas is not what any reasonable person would consider procedurally generated levels.

That doesn't mean it won't be fun, just that it will likely be fun for less time.

I'm generally not a fan of procedural generation, as it tends to lead to boring scenes that aren't actually identical but feel that way. Handcrafted levels are much, much better. So I'm not at all sure this is a bad thing. Do endless dungeons/diablo-style rifts really belong in a MMO anyway? Probably not, because ARPGs can be rewarded much more generously.

[Laughingjack]

No. Random spawns and blocked off areas is not what any reasonable person would consider procedurally generated levels.

That doesn't mean it won't be fun, just that it will be fun for less time, as it will get repetitive.

I mean this is in early,early alpha I have to believe that blizzard will fix generation issues. I just hope they balance the tower well. These random pick up games tend to be feast or famine and it would be annoying if luck played to large a role on how well you did.

[Schizoide]

No, they won't introduce procedurally generated levels later in the alpha. You can bet the bank on that. It would be a major systems change. If they were going to do it, they would have introduced Torghast with that feature.

Also to address a point made earlier, procedural generation literally means that the world is generated from scratch from an algorithmic seed. Think No Man's Sky, any number of roguelikes, and yes, Minecraft. Diablo 3 is only partially procedural as it hooks together cells rather than fully generating the levels from scratch. That is a major advantage as the levels feel less disjointed, you get some of that handcrafted feel while navigating through remains different each play.

[Kuja]

Depends on how rewarding it is. If it's challenging, but there's a very diverse rewards poor, getting better the higher you climb (Mounts, pets, island expeditions style), I don't see me getting bored of it. Island Expeditions made me bored mainly because of the queues and having to group with people who always gets carried by me. But farming mounts and legendaries solo? Yes please.

But if it's only legendaries you can get and there's a limit on how many you can equip (Would make sense, or you would never need new gear), then I don't see myself entering the tower again after getting everything I can from it.

[FuxieDK]

Hello. So, admittedly I'm not following Shadowlands all that closely, but I've been watching a few streamers play Torghast for hours and I'm starting to wonder what the point of it is, other than simple fun, which is fine. Due to the nature of the power ups, it looks like it only gets easier. Some streamers are just walking through it like they're a level 120 killing kobolds in Northshire. Shouldn't a system like this get harder, not easier?

Thanks for any thoughts.

It literally became boring, 2 seconds after it was announced.

[FelPlague]

No. Random spawns and blocked off areas is not what any reasonable person would consider procedurally generated levels.

That doesn't mean it won't be fun, just that it will likely be fun for less time.

I'm generally not a fan of procedural generation, as it tends to lead to boring scenes that aren't actually identical but feel that way. Handcrafted levels are much, much better. So I'm not at all sure this is a bad thing. Do endless dungeons/diablo-style rifts really belong in a MMO anyway? Probably not, because ARPGs can be rewarded much more generously.

I mean yes, procedurally generated levels is literally just that.
random spawns
random map generation
random doors
it is literally procedurally generated.

- - - Updated - - -

Depends on how rewarding it is. If it's challenging, but there's a very diverse rewards poor, getting better the higher you climb (Mounts, pets, island expeditions style), I don't see me getting bored of it. Island Expeditions made me bored mainly because of the queues and having to group with people who always gets carried by me. But farming mounts and legendaries solo? Yes please.

But if it's only legendaries you can get and there's a limit on how many you can equip (Would make sense, or you would never need new gear), then I don't see myself entering the tower again after getting everything I can from it.

So here is how they have said it will work, but this is alpha so

1. When you first start, you get big rewards.
2. the further you go, the less and less rewards you get, but you are still getting more rewards, just each floor you are getting less then the last.
3. there will be a limit to how much power you can get, but cosmetics will be after that. So those who go further will have achievements and cosmetics to show for it, sooner then those who dont.
4. you go into torghast to power yourself up, and get peices to craft your customized legendaries.

[Samuraijake]

blizzard give us fun things to do

please dont time gate us...

omg im so bored after doing something 16 hours a day cause it was fun

blizzard you need to time gate us

im bored now nothing to do.

[Nicholaes92]

It literally became boring, 2 seconds after it was announced.

Yeah idk why everyone is sitting here defending this stuff saying the same thing that is always said in every expansions... "It's only alpha" "It's only beta" "It just came out" "Give it time". Even if they have to tweak this stuff it still looks painfully painfully boring. I mean that's fine if you find just running in circles blasting stuff up and down fun endlessly (mindlessly) but let's not act like this is something that looks super interactive

[huth]

No. Random spawns and blocked off areas is not what any reasonable person would consider procedurally generated levels.

Yes, it is. Procedurally generated content can still have fixed parts. It just means there's a procedure through which things are generated within certain limits. In this case, the limits include specific maps.

[shoc]

I played Binding of Isaac for like 6 years. Good roguelikes are characterized by consistent updates, good variety of synergies and possibilities, and chances to get really overpowered in many different ways. It's fun to learn and execute awesome builds, it won't be fun if there's just a single 'best' build for a class, if Torghast still succumbs to cookie cutter playstyle then Blizz will have fucked up.

[FelPlague]

https://www.wowhead.com/news=312187/...-alpha?webhook

BTW here is a post, the mirror image one is my fave.

[Schizoide]

Yes, it is. Procedurally generated content can still have fixed parts. It just means there's a procedure through which things are generated within certain limits. In this case, the limits include specific maps.

No. If you read my sentence carefully, I said "what any reasonable person would call procedurally generated levels". They aren't.

Mob spawns may be procedurally generated, although I doubt that, as it would be far easier to just pick between spawn lists like island adventures. But even if that's the case those aren't the levels, they're the monsters inhabiting them.

[Aeula]

1. what end game content in the game can you just go "oh brb" then afk for 20 mins?
2. there will be many floors you can just afk with no problem like the shop floors (about every 4 floors currently)
3. well then plan ahead of time "oh i need to go out to do something, so when i get to the next shop i will stop there and do it"
4. 1 run per week is stupid, and being able to leave and rejoin sounds like it owuld not work with dying
5. if you cant dedicate yourself to only 30 mins, idk what you get done in wow. M+, raids, even RBG's all take upwards of 30 mins.

The issue is this can go on forever, until you die.

And I can dedicate 30 minutes, but that’s not always the case. My nights are taken up doing the high end stuff. My days are all about the boring bullshit I have to do to stay viable.

You get kicked from the server if you afk too long.

Torghast as it’s set up right now can’t be pushed. You could be in there hours, going from floor 1 to 73. Then you suddenly have to go and everything is lost. That’s shit.

Raids save your lockout M+ isn’t infinite. You can’t compare it to them.

[huth]

No. If you read my sentence carefully, I said "what any reasonable person would call procedurally generated levels". They aren't.

Mob spawns may be procedurally generated, although I doubt that, as it would be far easier to just pick between spawn lists like island adventures. But even if that's the case those aren't the levels, they're the monsters inhabiting them.

That's still procedural generation. And the monsters in the map are still part of the level.

[Linri]

saw some streams of people doing this, have zero interest in it already, and its only alpha and i've nver tried it

[Schizoide]

That's still procedural generation. And the monsters in the map are still part of the level.

My response is that you are not being a reasonable person. And lets leave it at that.

[Laughingjack]

It will likely suffer from the same problems binding of Issac does. A amazing game but unless your extremely good at it a bad roll on items can doom a run. I think the tower would work better as something with capped rewards without a currency to enter. Much like how loot from visions works rather then how momentos work,

I worry that it will frustrate players if they can see a loss coming by the tenth floor from bad rolls on perks.

[Chromell]

To me, Torghast seems like a much better version of Visions.