2020-2021 NFL Thread

[eschatological]

That'd be interesting. Bills really disappointed last year in the postseason and because of that I'm skittish at any kind of positivity toward them this season.

I literally think if the Bills have an unquestionably great QB they're easily a Super Bowl contender. Not as potent an offense as KC, probably on par with Baltimore, defense easily better than both.

[xskarma]

Whoa there, cowboy. The Pats haven't drafted a pro bowler since 2013. They've succeeded on the basis of a HoF QB and a HoF coach, which are the biggest predictors of success, with one phase where they signed Randy Moss, and drafted Gronk. They've basically fumbled through almost every organizational detail other than that, including multiple "rules violations," aka cheating, Aaron Hernandez, bungling the succession of Tom Brady with Jimmy Garapolo long before TB was ready to go, and not being prepared with Stidham when he WAS ready to go, poor draft classes, poor decisions like trying to sign AB even after the shitshow that was his last year, and so on, and so forth. Oh, and former players saying the atmosphere inside the building is horrific. CF this from a former player just yesterday, Aaron Dobson:

https://twitter.com/NFL_DovKleiman/s...02002812616704

The idea of "Patriots Culture" being so vastly superior to everyone else's culture is horseshit, through and through. People put up with a lot of shit because they won a lot. That's the culture. And now that it's going away, I look forward to the franchise's mythos imploding.

I get the feeling of deja vu, cause I'm sure we have had this same exact argument before.

The Patriots culture, if you want to call it that is the set of rules that Belichick refined over the years which basically boil down to "What rules do I need to follow to get a winning football team" and that encompasses EVERYTHING, from the rules they have about the players they want to how they handle contracts to how they train players and teach them their systems and fundamentals to nutrition to physical training and rehab to media interaction. EVERYTHING.

That's culture, and it's a culture that differs from team to team, but it should be the same basic idea for every team "What do I need to do to win and sustain winning".

And what's vastly superior about it is that Belichick's set of rules he employs actually WORK unlike some people who have tried to instill what they felt was their "culture".

Every dynasty that's existed in the NFL has had a culture like this, where they built a team and stuck to things they felt would produce a winning football team and a winning program, not just 1 year but every year. They differ in what KIND of rules they maintain and how they employ those rules, but they all had those rules.

Bill Walsh is famous for his rules cause he wrote a book about them. The Cowboys had a very strong culture from their front office and coaching, even if the players were loose and wild. The Packers back in the day had a culture that was maintained and lead to systems that current teams still use in various forms.

So, I still have no idea what your idea of culture is, but it's laughable to say that the Patriots culture wasn't superior the past 20 years. You say "the culture is that they won a lot". Well, yeah, duh huh. That should be every football team;s culture. And funnily enough it;s not. There's plenty of teams who prioritize selling tickets and being successful financially over actual winning.

I'm not going to argue with you about the rest of your arguments, but I have to pick this one out cause it shows how out of touch you are and how easily you listen to hater arguments: "The Patriots haven't drafted a pro bowler since 2013". The pro bowl is a glorified popularity contest these days. Mitchell Trubisky is a pro bowler. Some quality of players they got there.

Here's some of the players the Patriots drafted from 2014 through 2017:

Jimmy Garrappolo, took the Niners to the Superbowl last season and is a franchise QB
James White, one of (and in my opinion THE) best pass catching RB's in the NFL
Trey Flowers, ridiculously talented DE who signed one of the biggest contracts in free agency last year
Shaq Mason, RG who narrowly missed out on being named to the All Pro team in 2018
Joe Thuney, LG who DID make the All Pro team, in 2019. Being named to the All Pro team is a far bigger honor than being named to the Pro Bowl.

But what's even funnier is that judging the Patriots on the players they DRAFTED as if that is the only way to get better as a team.

You do realize that free agency and trading exist too? and that GOOD teams actually use those avenues to get players that fit their system and make them better.

The fact that we took Stephon Gillmore and turned him into the Defensive Player of the Year is not an indication of the Patriots having a successful culture?

What about Kyle Van Noy, Jamie Collins, Lawrence Guy, Trent Brown, Rex Burkhead, Jabaal Sheard, the list goes on and on of players that we got through other avenues than the Draft who became very successful.

Oh and what about Undrafted Free Agents? Do those count? cause I can name a host of those too that Belichick brought into the Patriots culture that developed into highly productive and successful players in that post-2013 period, with Malcolm Butler and Keion Crossen as the most famous ones.

So yeah, I'm sorry, but claiming the Patriots culture sucks because we drafted no popularity contest winners is the kind of statement made by casual fans who have no idea what they are talking about.

I did not count you in that group, but you seem to have still drunk their hatorade.

[dwightyo39]

Gilmore was a stud before he went to NE, at least when Brady and Chris Hogan weren't torching him.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

I literally think if the Bills have an unquestionably great QB they're easily a Super Bowl contender. Not as potent an offense as KC, probably on par with Baltimore, defense easily better than both.

Yeah their weakness is, somehow, the fact their QB is basically the definition of "purely average."

If Josh Allen catches fire, or they replace him in a year or two with a guy like Rodgers, they catapault straight up to that top tier of the AFC.

[eschatological]

-snip-.

This is a load of horse. Winning covers up a lot of nonsense.

The best Bills team in history were called "the Bickering Bills" 2 years before they appeared in the Super Bowl. You know what changed in that 2 years? They won a shit ton of games and went to the Super Bowl 4 years in a row. That's literally it. We had all the same egos, and divas, and everything.

The Cowboys of the 90s were one of the most dysfunctional teams to ever exist.

Walsh was basically known for being a softie and not enforcing anything. He and Marv Levy came from the same philosophy of basically just letting their guys have fun. I like that you're referencing a whole bunch of "culture" guys from before a time when you admit to starting your NFL fandom - did you watch any of these teams play? Because these three teams (all the "teams of the 90s" basically) were a far cry from rigid, stiff cultural places. Meanwhile, you had guys like Ditka, who had a literally legendary defense, and a good offense.......and could only win one Super Bowl, in the 80s. He did nothing with the Saints or any of his other stops.

And like Dwight mentioned, Gilmore was a top DB long before he went to NE, he just got DPOY attention when he went to a team that got actual national attention. Gilmore didn't "get good" because of Patriots culture, he was already good and got national attention because he was on the Patriots.

And yes, you've signed a lot of good FAs. This isn't a "cultural philosophy." That's good players being attracted to winning. It's exactly why Randy Moss showed up in NE.

I'll be super interested to see if more stories like Dobson comes off as the winning (or at least the consistent winning) goes away. There's already been drips and drabs of stories for the past 10 years or so. The Patriot Way is, imo, one of the biggest eye-roll inducing tropes of the NFL.

[draynay]

"What rules do I need to follow to get a winning football team"

Shouldn't it be, "What rules do we need to break"?

[xskarma]

This is a load of horse. Winning covers up a lot of nonsense.

The best Bills team in history were called "the Bickering Bills" 2 years before they appeared in the Super Bowl. You know what changed in that 2 years? They won a shit ton of games and went to the Super Bowl 4 years in a row. That's literally it. We had all the same egos, and divas, and everything.

The Cowboys of the 90s were one of the most dysfunctional teams to ever exist.

Walsh was basically known for being a softie and not enforcing anything. He and Marv Levy came from the same philosophy of basically just letting their guys have fun. I like that you're referencing a whole bunch of "culture" guys from before a time when you admit to starting your NFL fandom - did you watch any of these teams play? Because these three teams (all the "teams of the 90s" basically) were a far cry from rigid, stiff cultural places. Meanwhile, you had guys like Ditka, who had a literally legendary defense, and a good offense.......and could only win one Super Bowl, in the 80s. He did nothing with the Saints or any of his other stops.

And like Dwight mentioned, Gilmore was a top DB long before he went to NE, he just got DPOY attention when he went to a team that got actual national attention. Gilmore didn't "get good" because of Patriots culture, he was already good and got national attention because he was on the Patriots.

And yes, you've signed a lot of good FAs. This isn't a "cultural philosophy." That's good players being attracted to winning. It's exactly why Randy Moss showed up in NE.

I'll be super interested to see if more stories like Dobson comes off as the winning (or at least the consistent winning) goes away. There's already been drips and drabs of stories for the past 10 years or so. The Patriot Way is, imo, one of the biggest eye-roll inducing tropes of the NFL.

You still didn;t get the point. I get the feeling this was why I gave up last time to try and get the message across.

Culture = winning

The only point of a football team is to win

The only thing a culture does is set the rules to be a winning team

If you are winning, consistently, over more than just a year or 2, then you have a winning culture.

The Patriots have the winningest culture probably ever, if you adjust for the fact there's now freedom of player movement.

I'm not sure how it fails to register with you that this means they have a successful culture.

You drag in morals and attitudes of players and coaches like it has anything to do with a winning culture.

You bring up Aaron Hernandez ffs, like the guy he was somehow means the Patriots culture was bad, when by all accounts his behaviour inside the Patriots building had been nothing more than examplary and no one expected anything like this from him, inside or outside the Patriots organization in the NFL. Painting Aaron Hernandez like a deviant, no good criminal who everyone suspected was no good and who CLEARLY should have never been drafted by the Patriots is a lot of hindsight bullshit.

So, if anything, it is YOUR idea of culture that is off, which is no surprise given your bile about how the Bills have a "Family" culture.

Cause you know what? Fun fact, that is a winning culture for your team. They set up their rules and it builds on being a team, like family and they put that as one of their core values, that togetherness and unity as a team. And they are winning, so clearly it is working.

You concentrate on the small details that you hate and proclaim the whole thing nonsense, when it's clear that it;s a truth, across the NFL for many of years, which makes me think that you are indeed just filled with hate and can't see the truth because of it.

And that's okay. If you want to be a bitter Bills fan who hates the Patriots for kicking your ass for the past 20 years, then that's your perogative. Just don;t come crying that the most successful frnachise of the past 20 years somehwo doesn't have a winning culture, cause that's just poppycock.

[draynay]

Laremy Tunsil doesn't even need an agent to negotiate an extension with the Texans that makes him the highest paid OL by an absurd $4mil more than anyone else.

EVERYONE EXTEND YOUR QB BEFORE WATSON!!!

They might give him $50 million a year, who knows? BOB is a madman!

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Laremy Tunsil doesn't even need an agent to negotiate an extension with the Texans that makes him the highest paid OL by an absurd $4mil more than anyone else.

EVERYONE EXTEND YOUR QB BEFORE WATSON!!!

They might give him $50 million a year, who knows? BOB is a madman!

I for one can't wait for the part where they suddenly realize they don't have the money to resign Watson and have to make some insane cuts.

[eschatological]

How Watson and Mahomes are only entering year 4 of their rookie deals is beyond me. Jesus. They're gonna own the league for 15 more years.

[xskarma]

Alright. Here we go. DAY 2! LFG!

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

So Day 2 I want the same thing as Day 1. Packers need to get some pass catchers around Rodgers (and Love now). Also maybe an OT upgrade and a run stuffer.

[draynay]

I for one can't wait for the part where they suddenly realize they don't have the money to resign Watson and have to make some insane cuts.

They already got rid of their best player because he was too expensive, a year after getting rid of Clowney. Only JJ left now.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

They already got rid of their best player because he was too expensive, a year after getting rid of Clowney. Only JJ left now.

And with one post you've made me realize there's really nobody left to cut.

[eschatological]

WR/RB/S/DE for the Bills. Not in that order. Probably DE/RB -> WR/S. After that, it's all about adding depth.

Even those 4 needs are "depth," we have solid starters in all four of those positions, though DE is admittedly the most worrying, both our DEs are in their 30s and we lost Shaq Lawson to Miami this offseason.

- - - Updated - - -

Looks like everyone's making it a family affair in the "war rooms" today. I kinda like it.

I anticipate McDermott and Beane in anti-septic bunkers for the Bills.

[draynay]

Looks like everyone's making it a family affair in the "war rooms" today. I kinda like it.

Somebody's kid was dancing nonstop on camera yesterday which was pretty entertaining.

- - - Updated - - -

Feeling old with these sons of former players I used to watch getting drafted.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Every one of these WRs that gets taken I'm just gonna think to myself "Could have had him."

[eschatological]

Every one of these WRs that gets taken I'm just gonna think to myself "Could have had him."

I just saw a tweet from a GB reporter who said: "Just realizing that the Packers current QBs are A-Rod & J-Lo."

https://twitter.com/AndyHermanNFL/st...19235563974656

[draynay]

Was getting all set to mock another silly NYG pick, but they let me down by being competent.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Rare footage of the Patriots real GM. </s>

https://twitter.com/SInow/status/1253830655558840320