9.0 General Discussion

[FlubberPuddy]

Like it or not, Sylvanas is the woman of the hour and until she dies for good discussion around her won't stop. So just come ot peace with it.

Pretty much. Until then her white knights will continue defending that she's a paragon of good. So strap in for the next ~2 years.

[Yarathir]

Anyway, troll skins..

I do think they could make a muscular body shape for Trolls to come with a Forest Troll skin. For male and female, really. As far as I know, the ingame forest trolls still use the regular troll anims, so it'd just be a model change. Only thing I am unsure about is how it would affect the geosets, but other than that, it seems like a viable option down the line, honestly.

[LemonDemonGirl]

Anyway, troll skins..

I do think they could make a muscular body shape for Trolls to come with a Forest Troll skin. For male and female, really. As far as I know, the ingame forest trolls still use the regular troll anims, so it'd just be a model change. Only thing I am unsure about is how it would affect the geosets, but other than that, it seems like a viable option down the line, honestly.

How about thinner trolls? Because if we're going to have a muscular option, what about the opposite?

[Caerule]

trolls. Already. Had. Green. Skin. Options.

Well, if you consider the option on the left, which is the greenest skin option currently in the game, to be the equivalent of option shown on the right (which we are not getting), then fair enough I suppose. But I am pretty sure that claim is based on misremembering what it actually looks like. To me, that is Tael/blue-green at best. Not Forest Troll Green.
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As for green skin for trolls-- I mean, I didn't see it for males yet, but I saw it for females. Was that a mistake?

It was, yeah. Wowhead showed off new customization options off on a green skinned model. But I've had it confirmed by dataminers that this isn't actually among the new skin colors for players. Doesn't mean it's impossible we'll be getting it. But there's currently no evidence for it. Only for Dark, Sandy and Frosty.

As an aside, it might be unpopular for me to say this, but I feel like if they could give the Orcs a straight backed option on a whim, they can adjust the troll models at least slightly enough to make them seem more bulked up and brutish. Humans get whole new face shapes, Orcs have gotten a posture change, Trolls could get a bulked up body option to fit Forest Troll physique. And it would be really cool, imo.

Bulky Trolls could be cool. And they do seem to use the same animations as regular trolls. But there is a difficulty there. Armors these days are often not just textures placed on top of skins anymore. There is a lot of 3d elements to them. If trolls get a thicker option, then a lot of that would need to have its shape adjusted to suit this body build. Plus, they'll have to design a female version of this as well. Wouldn't be acceptable anymore not to do so. In this case, I have my doubts that they would consider that to be worth doing. Though I certainly wouldn't mind seeing it.

[Ersula]

Because the music cues inform us that what she is doing is evil, not to mention opening the veil being depicted as something horrific.

Nonsense. They constantly gave Illidan the exact same music cues even when he was defeating Sargeras.

That is an excuse for changing the explanation from "The Horde attacked Teldrassil" to "Sylvanas burned down Teldrassil". One is Blizzard covering their own ass on why Horde is blatantly the evil faction in BfA, the other is Blizzard removing an important plot point because writing for it was too boring.

Rexxar goes into detail about how the Alliance slaughtered orc children. It's not covering they're own ass: It's just willful ignorance by Alliance players & them taping into that.

[Sondrelk]

-snip-

In the last week we have discussed:
Transmog sets.
Class changes.
Covenant abilities.
Zone design.
Quest design.
Datamined models.
Torghast.
Levelling changes.

And now quite recently we stumbled upon the conversation topic of the story being pared down in BfA for the levelliung revamp, specifically all mention of Teldrassil being cut. This has implications for the story going forward and is important to discuss considering that new players coming ot the game will start by being shown BfA, and therefore removing the pivotal starting point of this expansion means they might not get the full picture.
This conversation topic therefore has touched on things such as: Story and gameplay integration, new player experience, levelling changes and possible foxes.
Now like it or not, Sylvanas is a massive part of Teldrassil, so removing her from the discussion is not really possible.

[Ersula]

The dialogue, the setting, the music, the shown imagery.
The entire cinematic literally screams "she did something bad!" in your face.

Not to mention that if the new player also watches the feature trailer, which they'll most likely do, i think they'll get that Bolvar is supposed to be the good one out of the 2.

A new player has no way of knowing it is Bolvar who is talking, and even then, Bolvar looks like a creature from Doom. You hate Sylvanas so much you think everyone's supposed to empathize with the guy who looks like Satan

[Makabreska]

you realize this thread is named „9.0 general discussion“ ? and not „SL Lore and Story“ or „Sylvanas lore in SL“ ?

there is a „9.0“ in the thread title. this is a version number. of wow. about the complete game/xpac. and this thread is about that. about wow retail 9.0. and not SL lore or Sylv lore.

this here should be about:

- 9.0 classes and class design
- 9.0 game design
- 9.0 „systems“
- 9.0 gear
- 9.0 dungeons and raids
- 9.0 reward systems
- 9.0 quests
- 9.0 story
- 9.0 technical stuff
- 9.0 world design and immersion
- 9.0 .... you got it

and not about:

- 9.0 story (especially sylvanas)

its not rocket science.

honestly...

What are you even on about? Why the hell 9.0 discussion would NOT be also about the story? Because you don't like it? Sorry, but it doesn't work that way. You don't get to cherry pick what shouldn't go into this thread, because you don't like something. You also act like you are new here, not knowing that Sylvi has been stirring up controversy since at least Wrathgate. I mean, did you came to 8.0 dicsussion and demanded people to stop talking about her burning Teldrassil?

[Cosmic Janitor]

The general discussion thread is practically just a chat room for current shit that is going on. Pretending that there is any topic other than anything vaguely connected to SL is a foolish notion. If you want to talk about something else then start talking about something else or even better make your own thread with that topic.

[Sondrelk]

A new player has no way of knowing it is Bolvar who is talking, and even then, Bolvar looks like a creature from Doom. You hate Sylvanas so much you think everyone's supposed to empathize with the guy who looks like Satan

You mean the uncanny looking elf woman who shrieks and turns into ghostly things as she brutally rips this helmet apart causing the sky to shatter while she used the line of "set su all free" that is commonly used for insane narcissistic egomaniacs? All while sinister music plays?
Yes indeed, clearly a new player would struggle to figure out who we are supposed to root for in the end after she ripped his helmet off in a way that shows the viewer that this is unbearably painful for him.

Not to mention, why would a new player not immediately connect the Bolvar is the one talking in the features trailer? It is the same voice actor, and it starts on a lingering shot of the Helm of Domination as he exclaims he just failed. Doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to connect the dots.

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The general discussion thread is practically just a chat room for current shit that is going on. Pretending that there is any topic other than anything vaguely connected to SL is a foolish notion. If you want to talk about something else then start talking about something else or even better make your own thread with that topic.

It is especially disingenous he complains about us discussin the story when probaly half of this thread has been more about discussing release dates of new information.

[Lady Atia]

You seem to forget. Tyrande will have a large role in Shadowlands, and the reason for this is now entirely removed with Teldrassil being written out of the story.
Not that we need to have the entire song and dance over Tyrande becoming the Night Warrior in Darkshore and small details like that, but Teldrassil has absolutely massive implications for the future of the game.

It's not written out? The events still happened in lore.

[FlubberPuddy]

Well, if you consider the option on the left, which is the greenest skin option currently in the game, to be the equivalent of option shown on the right (which we are not getting), then fair enough I suppose. But I am pretty sure that claim is based on misremembering what it actually looks like. To me, that is Tael/blue-green at best. Not Forest Troll Green.
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Exactly. I don't know why people consider that left side to be Green. But then again it's from the same person who believes Sylvanas is a hero

It's just like how there's a Teal blue/green Orc skin but still call it 'GREEN' like wtf

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I mean its super close to green but not actual green, Still Forest trolls being on the Horde just to keep their culture and history alive(The whole blood sacrifices probably shouldn't continue). I mean they could be a good counterpart to another allied race I will not mention *Cough*



But thats none of my business.

[Niwes]

What are you even on about? Why the hell 9.0 discussion would NOT be also about the story? Because you don't like it? Sorry, but it doesn't work that way. You don't get to cherry pick what shouldn't go into this thread, because you don't like something. You also act like you are new here, not knowing that Sylvi has been stirring up controversy since at least Wrathgate. I mean, did you came to 8.0 dicsussion and demanded people to stop talking about her burning Teldrassil?

if you look at your quote you see „story“ is not missing there and the second part is about „story alone“. dont act like i saying „dont discuss story here“. if you can read you know EXACTLY the difference. so dont act like i did not made a diffrence there. thats pathetic.

if you dont get that i will make it simple for you by repeat it in fewest words possible:

bad:
„discussing 80% of the thread story and sylvanas and repeat over and over what sylvanas threads loop endlessly“

fine:
„discussing EVERYTHING of 9.0 in the same amount (INCLUDING STORY)“

k?

[Raetary]

A new player has no way of knowing it is Bolvar who is talking, and even then, Bolvar looks like a creature from Doom. You hate Sylvanas so much you think everyone's supposed to empathize with the guy who looks like Satan

It doesn't matter what he looks like, what matters is the setting he is in and the interactions he is having.
The moment the fight ends, there is NOTHING indicating that Bolvar is anything but a good or at least neutral character.

Sylvanas on the other hand, is presented as an insane fucking egomaniac.
Going about how "the world is a prison" and then tearing up a rift between worlds.

A new player has no way of knowing it is Bolvar who is talking

The feature trailer starts with a shot of the broken helmet with the narrator telling you how he failed at his job, even a brain damaged ape can put 2 and 2 together to understand who the narrator is supposed to be.

[Makabreska]

if you look at your quote you see „story“ is not missing there and the second part is about „story alone“. dont act like i saying „dont discuss story here“. if you can read you know EXACTLY the difference. so dont act like i did not made a diffrence there. thats pathetic.

if you dont get that i will make it simple for you by repeat it in fewest words possible:

„discussing 80% of the thread story and sylvanas and repeat over and over what sylvanas threads loop endlessly“ -> bad

„discussing EVERYTHING of 9.0 in the same amount INCLUDING STORY“ -> fine.

?????

You literally said that this thread should be about everything beside the story. And you got called on it by the rest here, because that demand was just retarded.

[Niwes]

?????

You literally said that this thread should be about everything beside the story. And you got called on it by the rest here, because that demand was just retarded.

where in the hell i said that ? cant you read or what ?

- - - Updated - - -

you realize this thread is named „9.0 general discussion“ ? and not „SL Lore and Story“ or „Sylvanas lore in SL“ ?

there is a „9.0“ in the thread title. this is a version number. of wow. about the complete game/xpac. and this thread is about that. about wow retail 9.0. and not SL lore or Sylv lore.

this here should be about:

- 9.0 classes and class design
- 9.0 game design
- 9.0 „systems“
- 9.0 gear
- 9.0 dungeons and raids
- 9.0 reward systems
- 9.0 quests
- 9.0 story
- 9.0 gfx and design
- 9.0 technical stuff
- 9.0 world design and immersion
- 9.0 .... you got it

and not about:

- 9.0 story (especially sylvanas)

its not rocket science.

honestly...

@Makabreska:

can you read that ?

first list: including story.
second list: story only.

what do you not get here?

[Vyomesh2]

This is probably because of something that people kept bringing up during BFA: players don't like it when the "NPC" portion of their faction is more important than they are.

Horde player characters were not as important as nameless swarthes of NPC fighters that didn't agree with them and kept propagating the war. It's a really shitty feeling and hell it's realistic too: people do NOT have much agency IRL if they are not the majority. I feel like that was the atmosphere they were trying to go with for Horde in BFA, and it's an interesting take (heroes trying to be heroes in a faction that at the moment is mostly villains) but it's not a great world to live in for two years at $15 a month.

Writing for the sake of writing is one thing. Writing a game that is meant to be a sort of escapist life-sim for people is another thing. And that's why we're getting the bubblegum and rainbows writing for races moving forward that says "both Alliance and Horde are heroes, deal with it".

That NPC fighter thing is what makes me mad. Good examples are Brennandam(or however you spell it) and the Vulpera Death Squad situation.
Alliance fans love to point out how evil Horde is because Brennandam is a horrible war crime, with mothers impaled to walls and Orc Grunts holding farmers as if they're about to chokeslam them. Yet, as a Horde player I have nothing to do with that. It isn't even part of anything (unless i missed something)
You can just walk around there, and even kill a Forsaken Guy as Horde.

Then there's the Vulpera thing. On my alli char we get told to scare them off, het on the Horde i can clearly see Alli Shammies and Mages setting fire to terrified Vulpera. Not the wagons, but Vulpera standing there with the /cower animation while the casters light them up.
It's so bizarre.

[Sondrelk]

It's not written out? The events still happened in lore.

Blizzard certainly doesnt act like it.
As have been mentioned before, new players don't need all the nitty gritty of how the expansions happen. New players in MoP for instance probably do just fine not realizing that Deathwing is the reason we rediscover the landmass. But Teldrassil is not just important for BfA, it is important well into Shadowlands as well.
New players will never really understand why Tyrande became the Night Warrior, or even realize that the reason Sylvanas is hunted right now is because she is being held accountable for killing thousands to feed the Jailer.
It doesnt even need to be that big a change, honestly. Just have the beginning of BfA mention that tensions between the Horde and Alilance is hitting a peak after Sylvanas attacked Teldrassil. New players can then pick up on context clues as to why this happened with all the Azerite being mentioned during levelling, as well as Nathanos being omnipresent in the War Campaign.

[Makabreska]

where in the hell i said that ? cant you read or what ?

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@Makabreska:

can you read that ?

first list: including story.
second list: story only.

what do you not get here?

Not sure if trolling or not


You said this thread should be about mentioned things, and NOT about the story.