The Doom of the Warlock

[Shandalar]

Reading feedback from alpha testers keeps more and more scaring over time. Warlock is just like BfA but even worse. No cool or even minimun changes - the specs feel clumsy, weak and hopeless, specially Demonology, probably the worst designed dps of the game: just hard casting all the time.

Alpha builds come and go and we still see no changes in Warlocks. Not a single talent change, no kick for Demonology, no reduction of the 6secs cast time of demons, nothing new to be excited. Im my eyes seems like Blizzard have decided to make the Warlock the clunkiest and borest class of the game. You just see the cool things DH and Mages can do in Torghast and when you see the warlock ones you just wanna cry.

Is the return of Curse of Doom the final Doom of the Warlock class?

[Turbolax]

Positive as ever then.

[Saltysquidoon]

No classes are getting 'big' changes (beyond shamans, but they got left behind when blizzard 'ran out of time' to change them in BFA). You're supposed to be too wowed by the 'great unpruning' and your press on CD covenant ability to notice every specs gameplay and talent setup will be essentially unchanged.

[Warferno]

"Great unprune" and we get ONE curse back (recklessness) and rest is just moving talents back and forth from PvP and normal talents back to baseline.
Worst offender is that nothing has been done to useless talents like Nether Portal, From the Shadows and the list goes on.

As an avid demonology player I am very concerned how we will turn out in SL, my bet is on some bandaid fixes halfway into expansion (like with BFA), meaning demo at least will be garbage for a few years.

[Micronetic]

Is the return of Curse of Doom the final Doom of the Warlock class?

For me personally BfA was the final doom of the warlock, have played warlock especially Affliction since Cata and BfA made me reroll to my
alt Rogue. SL doesn't look better so it looks like I will stay Rogue.

[Gaidax]

Oh sod it.

We're being either good or top of the food chain for years now. The only downfall now is M+, but when it comes to that in Shlands we're totally should be giggling now because all the AoE crap gets nerfed to shit, which is an indirect buff to warlocks already there.

Raiding-wise, no need to be a prophet to predict that warlocks will remain a premier pick there simply because of unique utility.

Gateways are a mainstay in every tactic there is, I don't think there was even one BfA final boss where gateways were not a thing and at times to ridiculous extent (Ghuun kekw)

[mr2t]

Yeah be happy about playing lock because of gateways.

[Scrotles]

One expansion where you aren't top of the meters every fight...

BLOW IT UP. REWORK EVERYTHING. DEAD CLASS.

Morons.

[lockedout]

One expansion where you aren't top of the meters every fight...

BLOW IT UP. REWORK EVERYTHING. DEAD CLASS.

Morons.

It’s not about meters the class isn’t fun to play anymore...

[Yarou]

I see a Korean dude playing destro in m+ and he does +25. Destro isnt that bad for m+

[crimsonhead]

One expansion where you aren't top of the meters every fight...

BLOW IT UP. REWORK EVERYTHING. DEAD CLASS.

Morons.

You do realize that quality of life changes != DPS topping.....right?....like...Please tell me you know there is a difference...?

No one (or at least, the majority) is asking for us to be top DPS monsters again. What we are asking for are QoL changes that we have grown used to over the past few years in BfA with the azerite trait and essences. Asking for unending resolve to be a 1.5m CD like most DCDs won't propel us to the top of the meter. Asking for flashover and flashpoint to be baked into the class won't make us DPS all-stars. Asking for an interrupt won't make us gods. Get a grip and stop trying to pass off insults as witty dialogue. When there are NO CHANGES to a class at all and a lot of the changes we are asking for will make the class more FUN to play (because of course, fun doesn't always mean topping the meters) going into a new expansion it feels deflating and cheap. Get a grip and try to be constructive.

[Eapoe]

You do realize that quality of life changes != DPS topping.....right?....like...Please tell me you know there is a difference...?

No one (or at least, the majority) is asking for us to be top DPS monsters again. What we are asking for are QoL changes that we have grown used to over the past few years in BfA with the azerite trait and essences. Asking for unending resolve to be a 1.5m CD like most DCDs won't propel us to the top of the meter. Asking for flashover and flashpoint to be baked into the class won't make us DPS all-stars. Asking for an interrupt won't make us gods. Get a grip and stop trying to pass off insults as witty dialogue. When there are NO CHANGES to a class at all and a lot of the changes we are asking for will make the class more FUN to play (because of course, fun doesn't always mean topping the meters) going into a new expansion it feels deflating and cheap. Get a grip and try to be constructive.

Part of the issue is brought up in your post, or rather a lack of it. What are you willing to give up in return?

[valky94]

the specs feel clumsy, weak and hopeless, specially Demonology, probably the worst designed dps of the game

thats your opinion, i like current demo

[Shandalar]

thats your opinion, i like current demo

No instants and even the CD is casted. Something is wrong here.

[valky94]

No instants and even the CD is casted. Something is wrong here.

thats why you never use all your demonic cores, always keep one or 2 for movement, and you have soulstrike, so thats atleast 3 globals for movement

and i can see the reason why tyrant isnt instant, people could easily fatfinger it and missuse it

[Keniwa]

Part of the issue is brought up in your post, or rather a lack of it. What are you willing to give up in return?

You might not know this, but during the pruning warlocks have been pruned the most out of any class in the game, yet we have recieved nothing in exchange, when they revamped the talent tree we got most of what we had as baseline baked into the tree instead of new stuff like most classes. Not to mention the fact that the only mobility we have is 2 talents we can take that also competes with survivability. And no, gateway doesnt count as mobility since its on 2 min cooldown after its used, try adding 2 min cd to blink and and millions of teleport/jumps rogues warriors, dh, hunter etc have and you might see the problem.


The class design currently is complete garbage, every warlock spec is centered around a 3 min (1½ min demo) cooldown, when that is used the class does nothing. Dark glare in shadowlands doesnt match the shadowlands affliction, currently its only decent because we can have 5+ UAs on a target and extend them, when in shadowlands we are hard limited to 1 UA. the cd have no use at all

[Saltysquidoon]

You might not know this, but during the pruning warlocks have been pruned the most out of any class in the game, yet we have recieved nothing in exchange, when they revamped the talent tree we got most of what we had as baseline baked into the tree instead of new stuff like most classes. Not to mention the fact that the only mobility we have is 2 talents we can take that also competes with survivability. And no, gateway doesnt count as mobility since its on 2 min cooldown after its used, try adding 2 min cd to blink and and millions of teleport/jumps rogues warriors, dh, hunter etc have and you might see the problem.

Take your hand off it, Enhancement shaman was literally used as the example for why the pruning was justified. Also, destro is the best-ranged PvP spec in the game (and has been for a long time) it can't have too many struggles with peeling.

The class design currently is complete garbage, every warlock spec is centered around a 3 min (1½ min demo) cooldown, when that is used the class does nothing. Dark glare in shadowlands doesnt match the shadowlands affliction, currently its only decent because we can have 5+ UAs on a target and extend them, when in shadowlands we are hard limited to 1 UA. the cd have no use at all

I agree with this though. Tying so much power to those high-end CD (while obviously working in predictable raid fights) is too inflexible to work effectively in M+. Also if darkglare is in its final form on alpha it's just going to be underwhelming (no matter what numbers end up looking like), it just doesn't work without the UA spam window.

[Eapoe]

You might not know this, but during the pruning warlocks have been pruned the most out of any class in the game, yet we have recieved nothing in exchange, when they revamped the talent tree we got most of what we had as baseline baked into the tree instead of new stuff like most classes. Not to mention the fact that the only mobility we have is 2 talents we can take that also competes with survivability. And no, gateway doesnt count as mobility since its on 2 min cooldown after its used, try adding 2 min cd to blink and and millions of teleport/jumps rogues warriors, dh, hunter etc have and you might see the problem.


The class design currently is complete garbage, every warlock spec is centered around a 3 min (1½ min demo) cooldown, when that is used the class does nothing. Dark glare in shadowlands doesnt match the shadowlands affliction, currently its only decent because we can have 5+ UAs on a target and extend them, when in shadowlands we are hard limited to 1 UA. the cd have no use at all

Except you have portal which also moves you to LoS while dots tick, fear sends them away, and your demon attacks them. You also have personal teleport. Some strong survivability. Big burst damage windows.
Warlocks have a lot of things, and they are good in PvP. I’m not stating they are top tier, it don’t act like they’re garbage. Add on they are really good on dot spread fights and bring some great utility in raids with portal, so much so that some bosses downright require 1-2 of them on progression, and they are a great class.
So again, what are you willing to give up in order to get all these things?

[ragnars]

Reading feedback from alpha testers keeps more and more scaring over time. Warlock is just like BfA but even worse. No cool or even minimun changes - the specs feel clumsy, weak and hopeless, specially Demonology, probably the worst designed dps of the game: just hard casting all the time.

Alpha builds come and go and we still see no changes in Warlocks. Not a single talent change, no kick for Demonology, no reduction of the 6secs cast time of demons, nothing new to be excited. Im my eyes seems like Blizzard have decided to make the Warlock the clunkiest and borest class of the game. You just see the cool things DH and Mages can do in Torghast and when you see the warlock ones you just wanna cry.

Is the return of Curse of Doom the final Doom of the Warlock class?

I agree with demo design. I dont care if warlock is top of the meter or bottom. I loved meta demon and know we are never going to get that back.
Imo the spec fantasy is totally ruined, we used to be a "master" demonologist, summoned low demons and we were without a doubt the one dealing the damage.
But now? All our demons do all the job and they seem to be stronger than us, i wonder why they just dont kill the warlock.

And for destro, the bfa one is the worst i have played. I liked the legion one where we play different talents in st, cleave or aoe, the havoc talent was so fun. Or the mop one with fire and brimstone, why they removed the only good aoe destro had? But now everyone same talents for every content, just seriously why they didnt buff the other talents to make them viable?
I dont want to be a 30 sec glass canon that cant do shit outside burst.

[crimsonhead]

Except you have portal which also moves you to LoS while dots tick, fear sends them away, and your demon attacks them. You also have personal teleport. Some strong survivability. Big burst damage windows.
Warlocks have a lot of things, and they are good in PvP. I’m not stating they are top tier, it don’t act like they’re garbage. Add on they are really good on dot spread fights and bring some great utility in raids with portal, so much so that some bosses downright require 1-2 of them on progression, and they are a great class.
So again, what are you willing to give up in order to get all these things?

Why are you asking what are we willing to 'give up' to get basic quality of life changes to the spec(s)? Fine, I give up the 3 min CD for Infernal for even spread chaos bolt damage baked into the spell itself and not feel OMGAWDPOWER between 3 min windows. I would like the PvP talent (Focused Chaos) to be changed to 30% and baked into the class itself and am willing to give up the fact it cannot benefit from havoc (since that is the way the PvP talent operates). I would like Shadowburn execute to be brought back the way it was in MoP and am willing to give up...nothing. That should be baseline...sorry. I would like to have a better AoE spread mechanic and would like cataclysm be baseline and give up immolate damage.

I don't know why you are even asking what we are willing to give up. We literally have gotten NOTHING of note from Legion to BfA. We LOST tons of utility when our artifact weapon was tossed to the side. Would it be that hard for us to have Channel Demonfire replaced with Dimensional Rift? Or how about Unending Resolve dropped down to 1.5m instead of 3 minutes? Shit, even 2 minutes. Having a DCD on a 3m CD is ridiculous (especially since it's not even 100% damage reduction, just 40%, and ya it also makes us immune to interrupt / silence, make some tweaks reduce it's duration but on a 3m CD it's stupid). We finally got Demonic Circle baseline in Shadowlands, about damn time. Remember when we had Death Coil (oh wait, DKs stole that, "MORTAL COIL' now) baseline? That would be nice. Howl of Terror was also baseline at one point and we lost that too with nothing in return. Shadowfury for some reason has a cast time and can't be made insta for reasons.

I am not saying that there shouldn't be a middle-ground and while I can respect the fact that enh shamans got as royally fucked as warlocks, the fact is they are a hybrid class and we are pure (yes, I went there) and they can heal as resto or dps as ele also. All we have is DPS and when that power is being removed and our freedom of the specs is being encroached on with nothing in sight as compensation I do not really see why we need to give up anything. We have already given up so much, to ask us what we want to give up now to get basic QoL changes or some freeform to the spec is frankly a little irritating as this class is but a shadow of what it once was with all our bells and whistles. Being good in PvP doesn't change the fact that some serious modifications need to happen to make the class feel smooth and not clunky inbetween Infernal / Darkglare windows. Demo is just a hot mess.

To your point about Demonic Gateway...all I can do is laugh. If the only reason warlocks are brought is for a gimmicky spell like that and not for their actual damage / class abilities that they can offer (and 2 are needed to have dual gateways on both sides) then clearly this is more dire than it appears. Bringing a class just for one ability that helps cheese fights / makes it easier is not a good thing for the class though it may be "good" for everyone else.

Finally, once all the azerite traits are gone and the class is yet again reduced to rubble before the inevitable elliptic curve of growth after 7 months is not a way for us to feel "ok". Yes it happens because of wacky coefficients and numbers being turned in our favor - but is it really that much of a tall ask for a sense of even-keeled class consistency and abilities so that we don't have to wait until that kicks in? Why is that such a hard thing to ask for?