"The Great Gatsby" & others removed from Alaska school curriculum as "controversial"

[Felya]

Political party? I thought this was a complaint by sexually modest people but maybe I misread the article. Usually I assume religion is the problem but the article didn't give a lot of information on the people who wanted it banned.

Anyways I don't think there is ever a reason to ban any book unless it has something to do with justifying violence and crime.

This is in the OP:

Other books removed include "I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings" by Maya Angelou (for "anti-white messaging"), "Catch-22" by Joseph Heller ("violence"), "The Things They Carried" by Tim O'Brien ("sexual references"), and "Invisible Man" by Ralph Ellison ("bad language").

They also considered removing "The Jungle" and "A Christmas Carol" for "advocating socialism" (Is fucking McCarthy on this school board?) and "A Street in Bronzeville" for too much "realism".

If we can only guess the political affiliation of those who fear socialism and see anti white messaging from “ I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings”... its Vermon Supreme’s Party... must be... for the zombie turbines!!!

[PC2]

This is in the OP:

If we can only guess the political affiliation of those who fear socialism and see anti white messaging from “ I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings”... its Vermon Supreme’s Party... must be... for the zombie turbines!!!

I don't remember any racial or socialistic themes but it's been a long time since I read the book. In my view the book is just about a neurotic person who obsesses about a couple things and has a very narrow outlook on life. It's like he wakes up every day and chooses to be unhappy and unsatisfied for the pettiest reasons.

[Calfredd]

Cool. IIRC The Great Gatsby was a really depressing book that inspires pessimism instead of optimism. Instead they should assign books that motivate people in a positive way.

These aren't self-help books.

[Theodarzna]

Cool. IIRC The Great Gatsby was a really depressing book that inspires pessimism instead of optimism. Instead they should assign books that motivate people in a positive way.

The is a very strange take, like the State must cultivate a sense of optimism? That sounds unsettling.

[Sunseeker]

They'd burn books if it didn't make the corollaries so obvious.

[PC2]

The is a very strange take, like the State must cultivate a sense of optimism? That sounds unsettling.

It's not a "must" but a "should". There's actually no value or truth in pessimism and thinking that the worst will inevitably happen, but there is value in optimism and the idea that progress can happen and is available as long as people make increasingly better decisions and find better ways of thinking.

In the case of Jay Gatsby the guy is basically a train wreck because he has all the wrong values and looks for happiness in all the wrong places. In the one valid case where he seeks love(Daisy) he never considers that idea that there is not only a better woman out there but there's also a woman who will actually like him in return.

[Theodarzna]

It's not a "must" but a "should". There's actually no value or truth in pessimism and thinking that the worst will inevitably happen, but there is value in optimism and the idea that progress can happen and is available as long as people make increasingly better decisions and find better ways of thinking.

In the case of Jay Gatsby the guy is basically a train wreck because he has all the wrong values and looks for happiness in all the wrong places. In the one valid case where he seeks love(Daisy) he never considers that idea that there is not only a better woman out there but there's also a woman who will actually like him in return.

That is an unfounded statement, and amounts to believing in psychic will. Is this all because of that book The Secret?

[Felya]

I don't remember any racial or socialistic themes but it's been a long time since I read the book. In my view the book is just about a neurotic person who obsesses about a couple things and has a very narrow outlook on life. It's like he wakes up every day and chooses to be unhappy and unsatisfied for the pettiest reasons.

No, you are spot on. Regardless of their party affiliation, we are dealing with bottom of the barrel here. Shit people...

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It's not a "must" but a "should". There's actually no value or truth in pessimism and thinking that the worst will inevitably happen, but there is value in optimism and the idea that progress can happen and is available as long as people make increasingly better decisions and find better ways of thinking.

In the case of Jay Gatsby the guy is basically a train wreck because he has all the wrong values and looks for happiness in all the wrong places. In the one valid case where he seeks love(Daisy) he never considers that idea that there is not only a better woman out there but there's also a woman who will actually like him in return.

You are taking it too far. Showing people going through problems is important for perspective. If a kid gets pissed that not getting a video game is the worst thing that can happen, learning from a book you describe as pessimistic, has a lot of value. Optimism is great, but you need to deal with a looming dread. It’s always there... it’s why I recommend Hedonistic Nihilism with a tinge of Hermeticism.

[Hinastorm]

Maybe they should ban the Bible too. Jesus was a huge advocate for Socialism.

(the idea of) Jesus is essentially a liberal, with the possible exception of abortion.

I love seeing conservatives get pissed when this fact gets pointed out.

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America, where are you going?
But I am not really surprised, you have the whole abstinence-only sexual education and parents running away in horror when learning that their kids now know how people are "made" instead of being brought by storks. xD

Despite what you hear, we're slowly and inevitably going to the left, mostly because of population shifts. But that won't stop the crazies on the right from dragging it out as long as they can.

[PC2]

learning from a book you describe as pessimistic, has a lot of value. Optimism is great, but you need to deal with a looming dread. It’s always there...

Oh right, on that part maybe I wasn't clear enough. I was not arguing that The Great Gatsby should be banned as I am anti-censorship. It's totally fine for the book to be assigned as mandatory reading as long as the teacher has a good analysis of the book. I was mainly just saying how I don't really like the book because it seems like it is 100% depressing and I do prefer books that are about tribulations and conflict, but it's not much fun when the protagonist literally always fails and has no redeeming values.

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That is an unfounded statement, and amounts to believing in psychic will. Is this all because of that book The Secret?

Nah i've never even heard of that book but apparently it's a non-fiction so we can't really compare it to a novel.

Of course you disagree with me as you are the ultimate pessimist.

[Dontrike]

I don't have much opinion of the banning of books, currently they can be found easily on the internet and usually banning something just puts a spotlight on them for anyone that was even half interested in them. I know I read it in high school and while I don't remember most of it I will say it was boring and left zero impact on me whatsoever. Remind me though wasn't that the story about the rich guy that wanted to get with his cousin?

I will say banning books does seem strange in this day and age and clearly that school board has nothing going on right now if that is something they chose to focus on instead of actually issues that they may be facing.

[Grimbold21]

I'm trying to figure out if making banning books illegal is somehow undermining my stance of allowing all books

[Dontrike]

It's not a "must" but a "should". There's actually no value or truth in pessimism and thinking that the worst will inevitably happen

That's just not true, pessimism sees the issues that can arise far before optimism does. Optimism is how things usually can go wrong, the idea that everything will work out alright in the end and everything will be perfect.

Pessimism tends to know how to prepare for the worst of times, optimism only for the best of times.

[Easo]

Despite what you hear, we're slowly and inevitably going to the left, mostly because of population shifts. But that won't stop the crazies on the right from dragging it out as long as they can.

I am aware of the demographics not going the conservative way, but it still will probably take decades for a real change.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

The Great Gatsby is a great novel. Kids need to learn about real life and how you can easily make stupid decisions.

That is why Republicans don't want it out there. Because I mean if you really put your mind to it... what a stupid decision to vote for them.. if you are informed.

1. Vote for them for the guns! Democrats never took a gun from anyone. Even when they had the house, senate, president, and supreme court majority together.

2. Get them people off the welfare! Oh shucks.. its actually like.. most of us that are on these programs but for some reason we think its all minorities.

3. I LOVE MY GRANDMA. Well.. the President needs the stock market to go up to even have a case. So.. grandma has got to go. *coughcough*

4. The DEMS GIVE EVERYTHING OUT FOR FREE ON MY BILL!! Oh.. wait.. looks like this year the GOP handed out more money than anyone in history.

You see.. REASON works DIRECTLY against them.

[Adam Jensen]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...rsial-n1194436

Other books removed include "I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings" by Maya Angelou (for "anti-white messaging"), "Catch-22" by Joseph Heller ("violence"), "The Things They Carried" by Tim O'Brien ("sexual references"), and "Invisible Man" by Ralph Ellison ("bad language").

They also considered removing "The Jungle" and "A Christmas Carol" for "advocating socialism" (Is fucking McCarthy on this school board?) and "A Street in Bronzeville" for too much "realism".

I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings wasn't "anti-white." It was a commentary about growing up in a racist time and place. Oh and I guess the depiction of rape is fine, it's just the "anti-white" stuff that's bad, right?

The Things They Carried had violent imagery like a water buffalo being blown up and, you know, war, but let's ban it for "sexual references." Priorities, right?

I hate these fucking book banning morons.

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Maybe they should ban the Bible too. Jesus was a huge advocate for Socialism.

I saw one instance (not related to this one) where morons wanted 1984 banned for "promoting socialism." Like . . . did you guys even read the book?

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Cool. IIRC The Great Gatsby was a really depressing book that inspires pessimism instead of optimism. Instead they should assign books that motivate people in a positive way.

The world isn't a bright and glowy place. Kids need to expect that before entering adulthood.

[Endus]

I saw one instance (not related to this one) where morons wanted 1984 banned for "promoting socialism." Like . . . did you guys even read the book?

Maybe they did, and they think all that strict control and brutal suppression of dissent is a really positive thing, while confusing that for "socialism"?

Here's a fun tip, for anyone who things 1984 is an allegory against socialism. George Orwell was openly and vociferously supportive of democratic socialism. If you think what he was writing was critical of socialism, you have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

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The world isn't a bright and glowy place. Kids need to expect that before entering adulthood.

In my practicums, I was teaching the section on conflict for social studies to a class of 7th graders. So, the nature of human conflict and so forth. I opened that section with a video; about 5 minutes of actual combat footage from WWII. Not smiling soldiers, tanks being hit by bombs and soldiers cowering in actively shelled trenches. Not reproduced Hollywood stuff, the real thing. It had exactly the outcome I hoped; it drove home to the students that what we were going to be talking about was real stuff, and real people got really killed by decisions other people made. It isn't like the movies; it's brutal and senseless and there is largely no glory to be had. I made sure there was nothing graphic, no limbs blown off or gore, but some people probably died in the footage I was showing.

It worked. They sobered right up, and took the module really seriously for the next several weeks, culminating in a really great mock parliament project (it wasn't all doom and gloom, and conflict resolution was a big part of the module). But if I hadn't started it out by getting real with the kids, I don't think it would've gone nearly that well. I treated them with enough respect that I thought they could handle it, and they rose to the occasion.

You don't help kids by sheltering them and infantilizing them.

[Adam Jensen]

Maybe they did, and they think all that strict control and brutal suppression of dissent is a really positive thing, while confusing that for "socialism"?

Here's a fun tip, for anyone who things 1984 is an allegory against socialism. George Orwell was openly and vociferously supportive of democratic socialism. If you think what he was writing was critical of socialism, you have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

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In my practicums, I was teaching the section on conflict for social studies to a class of 7th graders. So, the nature of human conflict and so forth. I opened that section with a video; about 5 minutes of actual combat footage from WWII. Not smiling soldiers, tanks being hit by bombs and soldiers cowering in actively shelled trenches. Not reproduced Hollywood stuff, the real thing. It had exactly the outcome I hoped; it drove home to the students that what we were going to be talking about was real stuff, and real people got really killed by decisions other people made. It isn't like the movies; it's brutal and senseless and there is largely no glory to be had. I made sure there was nothing graphic, no limbs blown off or gore, but some people probably died in the footage I was showing.

It worked. They sobered right up, and took the module really seriously for the next several weeks, culminating in a really great mock parliament project (it wasn't all doom and gloom, and conflict resolution was a big part of the module). But if I hadn't started it out by getting real with the kids, I don't think it would've gone nearly that well. I treated them with enough respect that I thought they could handle it, and they rose to the occasion.

You don't help kids by sheltering them and infantilizing them.

That's what I like about the opening sequence to Saving Private Ryan. It didn't glorify war. It showed just how brutal and dehumanizing it was. Men just got mowed down as they tried to get out of the landing craft, blown apart (literally) as they tried to cross the beach. It was horrific, but Speilberg was trying to portray war as it is and not the glorified farce we like to make of it.

[Felya]

Maybe they did, and they think all that strict control and brutal suppression of dissent is a really positive thing, while confusing that for "socialism"?

Here's a fun tip, for anyone who things 1984 is an allegory against socialism. George Orwell was openly and vociferously supportive of democratic socialism. If you think what he was writing was critical of socialism, you have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

Oohh... nuance of communism and we can even toss in anarchism, all fighting fascism:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homage_to_Catalonia

It should be required reading for Orwell... it answers a lot of questions to establish his perspective.

[PC2]

The world isn't a bright and glowy place. Kids need to expect that before entering adulthood.

Right so when I say optimism what I mean is the notion that people have the ability to overcome challenges in the end. Of course there are some books and movies where the protagonists never prevail and everybody dies at the very end. Most books and movies aren't like that though because people don't find it very interesting.

Similarly, it's also true that books and movies should not be very "bright and glowy" and a good example of that is Christian art where there's rarely ever real world content. People like watching real conflict, violence, nudity, sex, and all forms of vice. Christian art can never be successful because it usually is bright and glowy and fluffy. Which that also isn't interesting at all.